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View Poll Results: Ore no Imouto - Episode 12 Rating
Perfect 10 45 29.80%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 36 23.84%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 24 15.89%
7 out of 10 : Good 18 11.92%
6 out of 10 : Average 16 10.60%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 4 2.65%
4 out of 10 : Poor 2 1.32%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 2 1.32%
1 out of 10 : Painful 4 2.65%
Voters: 151. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2010-12-20, 09:49   Link #101
Miyuki-ism
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I knew it wouldn't be that great anyways because it's not like this anime will have any real incest in it, it just dances around the idea. So I wasn't expecting anything interesting accept what happened really.

True end should be more exciting.
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Old 2010-12-20, 09:51   Link #102
Epsi-Chan
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Kuroneko FTW

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Old 2010-12-20, 09:57   Link #103
Divine witch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miyuki-ism View Post
I knew it wouldn't be that great anyways because it's not like this anime will have any real incest in it, it just dances around the idea. So I wasn't expecting anything interesting accept what happened really.

True end should be more exciting.
Yes, at any moment the dad was near I was thinking "Is he suspecting them for incest?"

Episode was kinda exagareting with "America trip" and what not. Kirno changed her attitude towards Kyousuke at last moment.
Good thing she turned Dere at all considering the first few episodes.

That little time of Kuroneko at end made my day.
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Old 2010-12-20, 09:58   Link #104
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Loved the bit with Kuroneko at the end (as many others have already stated before me.) Also the amusing things that occurred when Kyousuke went to buy the midnight eroge was nice.

Anyways quite the average ep/end, glad the "good end" didn't end with incest.
Now to wait for the true end episodes...
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Old 2010-12-20, 10:03   Link #105
larethian
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Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
Read the Manga, Kirino is different compared to her anime incarnation. She's much much more dere. There was a ton of "flag moments" that was left out of the anime due to time constraints.
sorry to pour cold water, but I frankly doubt something this mainstream and popular will get the wincest route.
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Old 2010-12-20, 10:12   Link #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
No, Saori specifically says "Well, it's natural for you to be concerned about your sister" (no reference to her acting nice or this specific situation). He blushes, and then fervently denies it.
I just rewatched this scene to see if I missed something, or misremembered it.

Interestingly, we don't hear what Kyousuke said to Saori for her to go into Kirino's level of involvement in the maid party for Kyousuke in Episode 11. Admittedly, I guess I just assumed that Saori went into that because Kyousuke questioned her on what could be causing Kirino to be acting so atypically nice all of a sudden (since that would fit with what came before in this episode). But it is possible it wasn't that at all, I'll admit.

One thing that stood out to me during Kyousuke's phone conversation with Saori is that he was handling, and looking at, the eroge gift that Kirino gave him. Maybe in the context of his sister giving him a siscon eroge game, he feels a bit embarrassed at Saori's suggestions that it's "Natural for him to be concerned about Kirino"?

In any event, I'll admit that this scene is the one that fits the "Kyousuke is tsundere" argument the best, but I just don't think it's enough in and of itself to warrant chalking everything up to the idea of him being a tsundere. Many of his actions and words elsewhere really don't strike me as all that tsundere. In fact, some come across to me as him being anything but. I think that other theories on him and his character can perhaps "fit the facts" a bit better than "Kyousuke is a tsundere" (all on its own, anyway).

Now, just to be clear, I'm not against the idea of a male character being a tsundere. For example, I'm inclined to think that Kyon (The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya) is one. But Kyon earns that distinction by being an "unreliable narrator" and frequently very snarky to Haruhi and the SOS Brigade. I just don't see anywhere near that Kyon-level of tsundere behavior from Kyousuke. Kyousuke is nowhere near as snarky as Kyon, and the way he shows affection and caring is much more open (i.e. can you honestly imagine Kyon being moved to tears over Haruhi doing something nice for him?).


Quote:
No, that's not the meaning or intonation of what's said. If it were, why do you think Kirino would be so upset?
Because that's not what she wants to hear. She wants him to ask her to stay. And when Kirino doesn't get what she wants...


Quote:
Her reaction was immediate anger after he said the second sentence. If it were that meaning of "do what you want", it would have been 勝手にしろ and wouldn't have needed the "go" on the front end.
Ok, look, one thing I'm going to make clear right now: I'm not fluent in Japanese. I don't think that a viewer of this anime should have to be in order to discuss these episodes, or its characters.

Like most other people on this thread, I suspect, I'm trusting the subbing teams to get the translation right, and working from the sub text that I see on the screen.

Obviously, if the translation is off considerably, then that can change the whole feeling of a scene, and lead to a dramatically different interpretation of it.


Quote:
He's not giving up and telling her to make her own decision by any means.
If the sub translation is accurate then that is what he's saying, in my opinion. If it's not accurate, then I have no idea what he's saying, because I don't know Japanese (aside from a small handful of words, and even then I only recognize their sound/meaning; not what they actually look like in Japanese).


Quote:
Edit: I am thinking that what he's saying here is 行けよ!清々するは!, which is more like "Go on! I'll feel better (relieved) when you do!"... which would definitely explain Kirino's reaction.
Well, that would fit in with part of my take on his words here. It would dispense with him wanting her to make a decision that reflects her honest feelings and goals, but it would show that her tsuntsun relapse pissed him off and lead him to say things in anger that maybe he otherwise would not have said.


Quote:
The problem is that sentence lacks a clear subject, so if you just take it on its own you could take it as "Do what makes you feel better" (or "Do as you like"), but that doesn't make sense in context of what else is going on.
Why not? Look, the dude clearly would rather if Kirino was less tsuntsun and more straightforwardly kind towards him. He was quite happy in Episode 11 when she became like that.

Even if he is somewhat tsundere towards her, I don't think that he wants her to be tsundere towards him.


Quote:
We'll have to wait for other translations to see how they render it, but I think the tone and reaction tell the story.
I don't think that the tone and reaction rules out my interpretation of this scene. "Do what you want!" is something that can be said in an angry tone, in an argument, and as a reaction from a person that is tired of playing relationship games.


Quote:
Did you not notice how much work it took to break down Kirino's pride?
Didn't Saori say that Kirino was quite active in the preparations for the maid party for Kyousuke?

That doesn't sound to me like somebody who had to be dragged kicking and screaming to do what she did there.


Quote:
It took a whole ton of anger, prodding, time running out, and the threat of him leaving for her to finally let go.
Still, it shows that Kyousuke and Kirino are capable of being honest to one another about their feelings, and that pride is not a completely incontrovertible wall for either of them there.

I really don't agree with your interpretation, RelentlessFlame, that these two like playing the "hide your feelings" game with one another. Or, at least, I don't think that Kyousuke does. There's just a degree of mutual bashfulness there that is hard to overcome because they've probably been very distant from one another for very long.


Quote:
And he was so taken aback by the "ambush" that he broke down because he wasn't expecting her to be grateful -- he was doing it out of a sense of duty and had long since given up on thanks.
Absolutely. Here we agree on Kyousuke. However, it only felt like an ambush to him, though, because the whole thing was very premeditated.


Quote:
Once the wall was down, sure, he was able to reciprocate. But that doesn't mean he's all of a sudden going to be able to admit that he loves her any more than she can admit that she loves him.
Maybe not in so many words, but by them simply being nice and warm to each other... I think he'd want that. I'm less sure on her, but I think he definitely wants that.


Quote:
All in all, I'm not quite buying the "he's fed up with her tsuntsun behaviour and wants her to be nice to him" theory.
Well, it fits a lot of what we've seen of him. It fits the dream he had of a cute sister at the very beginning of the anime. If fits how moved, and appreciative, he was of Kirino's actions and words during the maid party. And it fits how blissfully happy he is at the end of this episode.

Also, he's obviously fed up with her tsuntsun behavior. He's made that openly known many times. Whenever he stands up for himself to her, it's clearly in response to her tsuntsun behavior. How anybody could actually thinks he's fond of her tsuntsun behavior is truly beyond me.


Quote:
It's a nice theory, but I don't think it totally reflects what happened in this episode, and I don't think that's why he was happy at the end.
I have to disagree with you then. I think that it does totally reflect what happened in this episode (or at least doesn't contradict anything that happened in this episode), and I definitely think that is why he was happy at the end.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DeX-kun View Post
You're misunderstanding *facepalm*

The happiness at the end of the episode (I.e. - The "dere") is a direct result of the dishonesty in the earlier argument between Kyousuke and Kirino (I.e. - The "tsun.")
I simply don't think that he was dishonest there - I think that he really did want her to make a choice that was reflective of her honest feelings and goals (unless the sub translation was off, of course). So, for me, there's no "tsun" part to the equation here.


Quote:
Hence my conclusion that Kyousuke is just as much of a tsundere as Kirino.
You know, I'm willing to buy that there might be a slight touch of tsundere in Kyousuke, but to actually argue that he's every bit as tsundere as Kirino is... DeX-kun, don't you think that's a bit much?

Kirino is very tsundere...


Quote:

I would agree with you if it weren't for the anime blatantly pointing out to Kyousuke what Kirino actually wanted him to say, yet Kyousuke still chose to be dishonest.
He's not being dishonest, imo. In my opinion, he's wanting her to be honest, and to stop playing games (such as her trying to use reverse psychology to get Kyousuke to say what she wants him to say). Either that, or he simply allowed his anger (in the moment) to get the better of him.

Sometimes once you're in a heated argument with someone, you say things that you don't really mean, just because your angry (it has nothing to do with intentional dishonesty) and you're lashing out, in a knee-jerk way, at the person that you're angry with.


Quote:

Then wouldn't it have been much easier if he had simply just told her, "I would rather have you stay but this is an opportunity that you shouldn't miss out on."? Instead he just kept telling her to go and "leave now."
He was angry with her (for one reason or another or both). People generally aren't this eloquent and precise in their words when they're in a heated argument.


Quote:
We're not saying anything different, are we? I did say that Kyousuke isn't honest about his feelings for Kirino all the time. There were 2 opportunities in that argument where Kyousuke was calm enough to explain to Kirino what his true feelings were, yet he didn't.
How do you know he was calm? Kirino was beating the ever-loving crap out of him! I mean, let's not downplay this; this might have been her worst case of physically attacking her brother yet. If someone was hitting me like that, I wouldn't be in any mood to say something nice to them either.


Quote:
If Kyousuke is so aware of Kirino's tsuntsun antics by now, then he should know the truth.
He's aware of her tsuntsun antics (how could he not be? ), but that doesn't mean he knows if they're a reflection of a real dislike of him, or if they're just a mask. I don't think that Kyousuke fully realizes that they're just a mask until he learns of Kirino's decision not to go to America.


Quote:
Why make things so much more difficult by being dishonest?
Again, because he's pissed with her. People don't always do or say the most productive things when they're pissed off.


Quote:

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I believe my interpretation is just as plausible as yours. That's all
I understand where you and RenlentlessFlame are coming from. Again, I'm willing to go along with the idea that Kyousuke might be a little bit tsundere. But he's not as tsundere as Kirino is, imo.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn Beaver View Post
So, in a way, that's the final episode for Ore Imo...Well, knowing that this is an anime original ending and not the true ending, closing everything up in a life goes on way isn't really unexpected, really, and personally I don't have much complaints about it. I have the exact same thought as Kyousuke at seeing Kirino, it's like she's replaced by a clone or Skrull alien or something.
Love the Marvel Comics reference.


Quote:
About the debate whether Kyousuke is a tsundere...Frankly, I'm still not sure myself. For me the greatest evidence supporting this is when he's talking with Saori this ep, blushing while denying. What's strange is this is Saori he's usually pretty open with, and it's not really that touchy anyway. Perhaps he's embarrassed if people know that he did all those things for Kirino not just due to his duty as a big brother, but because he cared about Kirino as well? But that should be bloody obvious seeing how much he sacrificed for her.

On the other hand, perhaps it's because I feel the exact same thing, but I find nothing strange in Kyousuke not readily accepting Kirino's dere and stays cautious. About when he finally knows that Kirino is about to leave to US, to me it seems that he also doesn't want Kirino to leave. However, he understands that it's a rare opportunity, something that at least part of Kirino wants, so he decided not to be selfish and push his own thoughts and genuinely wants Kirino to decide for herself what she wants. Sure, he's not 100% honest, but maybe it's because he doesn't want Kirino to be further confused at the last moment.

Only after Kirino got angry ("I don't like you and vice versa") does he snap. anger clouding his judgment and says something he doesn't really mean. If that constitutes as tsundere then I guess it is, but one thing for sure is that she's nowhere near as tsundere as his little sister.
What I put into bold is the key for me. If Kirino doesn't say "You don't like me, and I don't like you!", then this scene plays out entirely differently here, imo. Just look at Kyousuke's face right after she says it. He is genuinely hurt by that, and it leads to him snapping.
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Old 2010-12-20, 10:34   Link #107
-Sho-
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So this "Good end" is an "original ending" if i understand what you mean ?
True end = Wincest ? eh what?
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Old 2010-12-20, 10:42   Link #108
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i didn't know "homoge" existed until i watched this ep
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Old 2010-12-20, 11:00   Link #109
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i didn't know "homoge" existed until i watched this ep
I believe you can find EVERY genre in eroge.
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Old 2010-12-20, 11:14   Link #110
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Meh.

That's the best I can sum up my feelings towards the ending. A resounding, complacent meh.
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Old 2010-12-20, 11:21   Link #111
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Seriousle, Kyousuke is a pseudo-human, has no pride, no selflove nor dignity.
I heard Lelouch was a fragile boy but Kyousuke is made of glass to bleed that much after getting beat from a 1.50 m and 49kgs years old girl.

I guess, indeed, he deserves the name of sandbag/punching bag.

Kirino can be claimed the be most horrible character of the year; so, she doesn't wants to go to America and wants his sandbag to ask her to stay, did she asked?

No.

Just with delivering insults, punches, kicks, fatalities, etc, sure will work.

Next: Kirino ask sandbag about some tips and the guy gets .... excited?
Thats his life : pleasure of getting treated as lackey by a underage girl with a serious case of bipolarity.

At least Vageena and Ruri are pretty aceptable characters.
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Old 2010-12-20, 11:51   Link #112
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Absolutely great episode, and a well done conclusion to the first season (there's no way there won't be a second season).

At the beginning, Kirino is very dere-dere, and Kyousuke is taken totally by surprise by this. She then asks him to get a new eroge for her at a midnight sale. There he meets his classmate Akagi, who is there for the midnight sale of a gay game. This throws off Kyousuke at first, until he is told that Akagi buys it for his little sister, who's a gay game fujoshi
(Seriously, I never understood why so many other girls are into gay stuff, especially when it's with so gross guys like the ones here... Why can't they be good, decent yuri fans instead, like me? )

Kyousuke has problems accepting this at first, until he realises that he's doing just the same. He's just lucky that Kirino has a much more tasteful hobby with those imouto games, rather than some awful gay games.
When he's back with the game, Kirino asks him to still play it with her for a bit, and they conclude a route, which sadly leads to a bad end. They play some more, until Kirino decides to show him a secret - she intended to go away, to America (why anyone would want to go there voluntarily is also completely beyond me Well, she's still young and doesn't know it any better.)

I think that's the reason why she was so super-friendly to Kyousuke before, she wanted that Kyousuke keeps a good memory of her. She then wanted to play the eroge with him because she wanted to spend her last time before she goes away together with him.

Kyousuke is angry that she only told him just now, and out of defiance tells her to go. The game then expresses exactly Kirino's feelings (if she realised them already before or only just now), that she wants him to ask her to stay, and she'll stay. Kyousuke though is too pigheaded for that and still tells her to go, which makes Kirino so mad she knocks him k.o. with a headbutt
You can clearly see they're related here, as obstinate as they both are.

Kyousuke then wakes up in the morning, goes down for breakfast - and to his surprise, Kirino is still there and tells him that she decided to stay. While Kyousuke is still to pigheaded to admit it, he is actually very happy about this, which you can also see in his smile on the way to school.
After this, Kirino is back to her normal self again, although she's a bit gentler now to Kyousuke.

In the ED, we can see some nice shots of Kuroneko in her neko outfit in front of the mirror. What I'd liked even more to see would've been Kirino, trying out her new neko outfit which Kuroneko just made for her in front of the mirror.

Screenshots:



Now what I would like to see for the "True" end:
Kirino is actually a closet Yuri fan, but can't quite admit it to herself yet. That's why she plays imouto games, putting herself in the place of the big brother and thus being the target of the love and affection of the little sisters.
At an occassion she's together with Kuroneko (perhaps trying out the new neko outfit), Kirino gets Kuroneko to call her "Onii-chan". Kirino finally confesses about her Yuri passion and makes out with Kuroneko
Alternatively, she could confess her Yuri passion to Ayase, who already has shown Yuri tendencies when she was angry at Kyousuke taking Kirino away from her. Ayase then is more than happy about this, and they make out together

Quote:
Originally Posted by DingoEnderZOE2 View Post
All I wanna know is how the hell did a cell phone move the mouse and click on Kirino's laptop when it fell?
It's the mouse that fell, and then accidentally clicked.
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Old 2010-12-20, 12:15   Link #113
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Absolutely great episode, and a well done conclusion to the first season (there's no way there won't be a second season).
great for a first season end.
I'm sure there is a second season.
there wasn't any charter development here at all really. :/
we just got know the characters, not to much background either.
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Old 2010-12-20, 13:18   Link #114
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@Triple_R:
Regarding the "Go. Do what you want!" statement. I think it's pretty clear from the way it's delivered that Kyouske is implying that "go" and "do what you want" are the same thing. He's basically saying "Clearly you want to go to America. Why would I stop you? I don't even like you." Earlier in the scene when Kirino says "Don't tell me you're going to tell me not to go now." she's obviously means "Please, tell me not to go!" but she's still not willing to be completely open with her feelings. Based on his experience in the previous episode and earlier in episode 12 I think Kyouske was in a position to guess at Kirino's true feelings and desires at this point, especially given the hint she dropped when they played the eroge just before this confrontation. When confronted with a choice between saying what he truly feels in response to what he thinks Kirino truly feels or denying his true feelings and reacting negatively to what Kirino is saying he decides not to be honest which seems to me to be tsundere-like behavior.

To be honest, I was using a bit of hyperbole in my original post when I described Kyouske as "just as tsundere as Kirino." I'm not sure anybody can be that tsundere. The point is there are definitely tsundere elements in Kyouske's behavior.

Also, Kyouske's smile at the end didn't imply to me that he's happy with Kirino's deredere behavior. At that point she seems to be back to being very tsuntsun towards him, but now instead of being hurt by how she appears to feel, Kyouske knows how she truly feels and his smile says to me "I'm glad things are back to normal. I know how to deal with this." more than anything.
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Old 2010-12-20, 13:22   Link #115
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Good way to wrap everything up with an original ending, but can't wait to see the the "true end". I feel that the whole ep was rushed, they packed a lot into it.

The sudden change in Kirino's behavior was surprising, but i guess it could be because she was leaving and just wanted to go out on a good note maybe?

The scene with Kyousuke and Akagi was great, especially when the girls were clapping, at least he has someone to share in the pain.

Very little Kuroneko, but the main thing was that she was going to call Kousuke something other than nii-san soon. The part of her dancing in the mirror was great as well. Did Saori and her know that Kirino was leaving?

I think the album will come into play in the other eps, or it could be just that she was hiding her ticket in it. She sure knows how to beat somebody up, the game playing out their feelings was interesting, I guess that's what changed her mind.

Her decision to not go was surprising because Kyousuke didn't do anything to stop her. the father being happy with her decision was nice. So Kyousuke was happy that the life counseling was not over.
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Old 2010-12-20, 13:34   Link #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DasDingus View Post
@Triple_R:
Regarding the "Go. Do what you want!" statement. I think it's pretty clear from the way it's delivered that Kyouske is implying that "go" and "do what you want" are the same thing. He's basically saying "Clearly you want to go to America. Why would I stop you? I don't even like you." Earlier in the scene when Kirino says "Don't tell me you're going to tell me not to go now." she's obviously means "Please, tell me not to go!" but she's still not willing to be completely open with her feelings.
And I think that annoys him, and is partly why he responded the way he did.

He doesn't want to play this tsundere game with her any more. If she's going to be like that, then yeah, he'd just as soon she go to America. His first choice, though, would be for her to be like the cute younger sister he's always (and literally) dreamt of.

I'm disappointed that so many people are just totally discounting that rather telling 'cute sister' dream that Kyousuke had in the very first episode of this anime. It's disappointing because I think people are missing one of the main charms (if not the central thrust) of Ore no Imouto by doing so. That charm is that this anime is about the story of a young man who would like for his younger sister to be "cute" (i.e. nice and warm towards him), but who is seemingly stuck with a mean brat of a younger sister... but is he, really? The ending of this anime brings everything into a beautiful full circle where Kyousuke's dream of the cute younger sister looks like it might actually be realized, when he thought it was impossible. And by that seemingly impossibly dream being realized, a brother and sister have their sibling bond strengthened and renewed. It's a great story, don't you think?


Do you see what I'm saying, DasDingus? Don't you think that it's at least possible that my interpretation here is correct?


Quote:
When confronted with a choice between saying what he truly feels in response to what he thinks Kirino truly feels or denying his true feelings...
He is not "denying his true feelings". He is genuinelly annoyed with her, and her tsundere way of going about things. He would rather she would just come out and spit it out, and stop beating around the bush or playing reverse psychology with him.


Quote:
To be honest, I was using a bit of hyperbole in my original post when I described Kyouske as "just as tsundere as Kirino." I'm not sure anybody can be that tsundere. The point is there are definitely tsundere elements in Kyouske's behavior.
Maybe he has tsundere elements. But I think that a lot of folks on this thread are very used to interpreting relationship dynamics and character decisions through a tsundere prism... and sometimes, doing that gets in the way of seeing what's really going on. Not everything can only be viewed through a tsundere prism...


Quote:

Also, Kyouske's smile at the end didn't imply to me that he's happy with Kirino's deredere behavior. At that point she seems to be back to being very tsuntsun towards him, but now instead of being hurt by how she appears to feel, Kyouske knows how she truly feels and his smile says to me "I'm glad things are back to normal. I know how to deal with this." more than anything.
... Are you seriously arguing that Kyousuke likes tsuntsun Kirino?

I mean, really?

After all that he's said against her being like that, and standing up to her in some of the occasions when she's like that?

When was Kyousuke the nicest to Kirino, and the most at ease being physically close to her? Was it not right after she apologized and thanked him in Episode 11?

Kyousuke would clearly prefer a less tsuntsun Kirino. He would be quite comfortable with a deredere Kirino. In fact, that is what he wants, I think.

He's happy at the end of Episode 12 because he now knows how she really feels about him, given her decision not to go to America. That, and he also knows that her recent kinder and nicer behavior towards him is for real.
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Old 2010-12-20, 13:40   Link #117
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And here I thought I understood what Ore no Imouto was about, but this episode just made me even more confused.

A bit a of mixed bag for me...
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Old 2010-12-20, 14:13   Link #118
Vexx
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Hmmm, looks like we'll have to wait for the extra episodes for the MORE INTERESTING END but this is a good way to close out the broadcast series. We did get some nice foreshadowing from Kuroneko (rofl). Only complaint was that Kirino's plans seem to come completely out of the blue sky with little build up.
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Old 2010-12-20, 14:47   Link #119
Saturn Beaver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRAGUN H.E.X. View Post
i didn't know "homoge" existed until i watched this ep
Well, I know such things exist, but I also don't know that they're called by that particular name until today...I thought the term 'BL' and 'yaoi' already covers pretty much the catch-all name for everything gay. I wonder...seeing as homo, while usually used for guys, simply means the same (sex), it also applies to yuri as well. I wonder if yuri games (rare as it is) is also under the same name?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Maybe he has tsundere elements. But I think that a lot of folks on this thread are very used to interpreting relationship dynamics and character decisions through a tsundere prism... and sometimes, doing that gets in the way of seeing what's really going on. Not everything can only be viewed through a tsundere prism...
I agree; simply put, Kyousuke's actions this episode does imply that he has tsundere behavior/elements, but I don't think that's enough to call him a full tsundere like his sister. I mean, if simply don't being honest about what you truly feel is enough to mark someone a tsundere, a lot of people already fall under that. For me, for someone to be considered a full blown tsundere that tsundere behavior needs to be more pronounced and is pretty much a default setting, like Kirino. Simply depicting a tsundere behavior from time to time like Kyousuke, while usually he's quite upfront with his feelings, isn't really enough to be called a tsundere, especially compared to his sister.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
... Are you seriously arguing that Kyousuke likes tsuntsun Kirino?

I mean, really?

After all that he's said against her being like that, and standing up to her in some of the occasions when she's like that?

When was Kyousuke the nicest to Kirino, and the most at ease being physically close to her? Was it not right after she apologized and thanked him in Episode 11?

Kyousuke would clearly prefer a less tsuntsun Kirino. He would be quite comfortable with a deredere Kirino. In fact, that is what he wants, I think.

He's happy at the end of Episode 12 because he now knows how she really feels about him, given her decision not to go to America. That, and he also knows that her recent kinder and nicer behavior towards him is for real.
I wouldn't say that he likes tsuntsun Kirino...I would say, though, that he definitely has a much larger range of patience and tolerance for tsundere behavior than most of us. Also, I agree with DasDingus that after years of neglect and 9 months of abuse, seeing deredere Kirino is alien to him and he's unsure of what to do. Despite the extra patience, he does have his limits, and he definitely doesn't want his sister to regularly cross the line. However, like DasDingus said, regular tsun he's now used to, maybe he doesn't like it that much and wants a cute little sister, but at least he knows how to handle it as long as she doesn't cross the line.

I think a good comparison is how Kirino acts with eroge: I think Kyousuke is fine with Kirino being an otaku, but her playing eroge of little sisters still bothers him. And yet, he knows that it really makes her happy. Thus, because she really does as a good big brother and because he care about his sister, he tolerates it as long as she doesn't go too far (asking him to be scapegoat for her otaku hobbies, for instance). So, even if Kyousuke wants a demure little sister he knows that Kirino isn't like that, and he doesn't want to force Kirino to be something she's not. Kirino may be tsun, but that's who she is, and as long as she doesn't go too far, he's fine with that (although his aforementioned extra patience and tolerance will make it a bit strange with most poeple).
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Old 2010-12-20, 15:09   Link #120
Himeji
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn Beaver View Post
Well, I know such things exist, but I also don't know that they're called by that particular name until today...I thought the term 'BL' and 'yaoi' already covers pretty much the catch-all name for everything gay. I wonder...seeing as homo, while usually used for guys, simply means the same (sex), it also applies to yuri as well. I wonder if yuri games (rare as it is) is also under the same name?
That surprised me as well. Why are they naming those gay games with the general "homo", rather than the male-male-only "gay" or "yaoi"?
Is it really a more general classification that includes gay games and lesbian games, or is it reserved for gay games only? Anyone have more info on that?
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