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Old 2010-12-10, 16:44   Link #201
grey_1960
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Response to Black Beard D. Kuma
Your right about the Black beards power of touching. No rebuttal

As for the draw backs your right about the body but him being only one to wield two devil fruit is specultation. Your stating he has become godly like is also opinion.

Now about the Gorosei they go based off of intellegence. Not by what was the experience in the battle field. Have you ever noticed throughout the once piece how they take everything to the extreme and always assume the worst case senerio. Now compare Black beards actions on the battle field and the Gorosei desciptions and you will see they are different. The Gorosei think the consumtion of two devil fruits already makes you powerful. But do you think Black beard would have survived the war if Shanks did not butt in? Why didn't black beard fight Akainu when they were trading Bonney for the marine ship? The Gorosei mention about black beards knowlegde of White beard and his territory. Do you think if everyone else has the same knowledge the battle field would be more equal? The Gorosei talk about black beard taking out one of the "big new rookies". Do you think Jewelry Bonney the "big new rookie" is the most threatning out of all the rookies or all the pirates in general? There is a big difference. The Gorosei take a lot of things out of proportion. The fact that there willing to kill pregnant women and childrens is a proof. So getting on there radar doesn't count. Black beards we know does not match that of what the Gorosei know.

Conclusion
Black beard is in my opinion from what I have seen so far not even close to Yonkou level. Oda will have to give him a huge powerup to fight on Yonkou level in the two year time skip. Oda may also have to cripple Shanks and the rest of the yonkous even more. Maybe take Shank's other arm off or blind him. I would go with both.

Response to Kallen4life
Sorry if it sounds snappy that not the intention. Second I am in computer class and there is nothing to do.

Last edited by grey_1960; 2010-12-10 at 17:16.
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Old 2010-12-10, 18:19   Link #202
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by grey_1960 View Post
Response to Black Beard D. Kuma
Now about the Gorosei they go based off of intellegence. Not by what was the experience in the battle field. Have you ever noticed throughout the once piece how they take everything to the extreme and always assume the worst case senerio. Now compare Black beards actions on the battle field and the Gorosei desciptions and you will see they are different. The Gorosei think the consumtion of two devil fruits already makes you powerful. But do you think Black beard would have survived the war if Shanks did not butt in? Why didn't black beard fight Akainu when they were trading Bonney for the marine ship? The Gorosei mention about black beards knowlegde of White beard and his territory. Do you think if everyone else has the same knowledge the battle field would be more equal? The Gorosei talk about black beard taking out one of the "big new rookies". Do you think Jewelry Bonney the "big new rookie" is the most threatning out of all the rookies or all the pirates in general? There is a big difference. The Gorosei take a lot of things out of proportion. The fact that there willing to kill pregnant women and childrens is a proof. So getting on there radar doesn't count. Black beards we know does not match that of what the Gorosei know.

Conclusion
Black beard is in my opinion from what I have seen so far not even close to Yonkou level. Oda will have to give him a huge powerup to fight on Yonkou level in the two year time skip. Oda may also have to cripple Shanks and the rest of the yonkous even more. Maybe take Shank's other arm off or blind him. I would go with both.
BB (Blackbeard) would definitely have survived had Shanks not intervened. He was taking on Garp and Sengoku at the same time and didn't appear to have any problems. Shanks stepping in just reduced the casualties for all sides.

BB didn't fight Akainu because the risks outweighed the benefits. The original deal was that BB would be given a battleship in exchange for handing over Bonney to the marines. However, when Van Auger saw that Akainu was on board the vessel, it was clear that the marines had no intention of giving up the ship.

Now, BB and his crew could have dealt with Akainu, but in the process of doing so, they would at the very least suffer heavy casualties (worst case scenario some members would be killed). Why would BB go through all the trouble of freeing his new crewmates from Impel Down only to risk getting them killed soon after? That would defeat the whole purpose of his plan. Secondly, if the BB pirates killed Akainu, there would be serious consequences to say the least. The marines would be in constant pursuit of the BB pirates, which would be a big annoyance. With all that being said, it was much better and smarter for BB and his crew to simply flee from Akainu's sight.

BB may do things that appear to be cowardly, but he's an opportunist and will not get into unnecessary fights. Shanks foresaw that BB would rise in power and even dethrone WB (Whitebeard) one day. That's exactly what happened. Shanks also knows that BB is not be taken lightly, as he's the one who inflicted those 3 scars across his eye when he wasn't being careless. This was also before BB even got the Darkness fruit, so we know he's a capable fighter without his DF (Devil Fruit) abilities.

I feel you're really underestimating BB and overestimating the Yonkou.
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Old 2010-12-10, 20:43   Link #203
grey_1960
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Whether Black beard would have survived without shanks interference is an opinion. I personally think he would have died along with Luffy if it were not for Shanks. The marine had split their forces up to pursue two objectives. Luffy would have been destroyed leaving the admirals to converge on black beard if he was still alive. I personally feel Shanks is up to something and he is hiding something from everybody. There a reason why he saved Luffy and he won’t kill Black beard. If he wanted to he could have easily ended Black Beards Life at Marineford. But why allow him to keep walking?

Defeating Admiral Akainu?
Second Black Beard defeating Akainu is another opinion. Personally I do not think Black beard or his crew could come close let alone defeat Admiral Akainu before the two years. The fact is, in the war with Whitebeard there was no one except for two people who could put Admiral Akainu in his place. Those two People are Shanks and White Beard. Everyone else on that battle field never came close to what White Beard and Shanks did to admiral Akainu. They could do only one thing and that was slow Admiral Akainu down or loose to him.

Fact number two Van Augur, Jesus Burgess, Doc Q, and Laffite could not even get near or touch Ace. Why would they be able to hurt Admiral Akainu? The next question would be what about the level six prisoners that Black Beard has in his crew? They count for something right? They would not have made a difference in my opinion. Crocodile, Jinbei, and Ace were level six prisoners too. How well did they fair against Admiral Akainu? That does not count the Whitebeard Pirate members who would have qualified as level six prisoners. How did they fair against Admiral Akainu, when they were trying to save Luffy? Black Beard was not able to beat any yonkou before the two years so I don’t see how he would have been able to defeat Admiral Akainu let alone any other Admiral.

Conclusion
I am not underestimating Black Beard. I am just going off what was in the manga. This is how I came to these opinions. It will change in time when Black Beard proves himself. As for the Yonkous the fact remains White Beard started the wars and Shanks dictated the end of the war. One of the three powers is the Yonkou positions in the one piece universe. The one piece Universe seems to treat them differently.

Last edited by grey_1960; 2010-12-10 at 22:13.
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Old 2010-12-10, 23:03   Link #204
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by grey_1960 View Post
Response to BlackBeard D. Kuma
Whether Black beard would have survived without shanks interference is an opinion. I personally think he would have died along with Luffy if it were not for Shanks. The marine had split their forces up to pursue two objectives. Luffy would have been destroyed leaving the admirals to converge on black beard if he was still alive. I personally feel Shanks is up to something and he is hiding something from everybody. There a reason why he saved Luffy and he wonít kill Black beard. If he wanted to he could have easily ended Black Beards Life at Marineford. But why allow him to keep walking?
BB wasn't intimidated by Shanks in the least bit. He laughed as he left the battlefield. And Shanks isn't the type to instigate fights. He prefers to negotiate rather than resort to needless violence.

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Defeating Admiral Akainu?
Second Black Beard defeating Akainu is another opinion. Personally I do not think Black beard or his crew could come close let alone defeat Admiral Akainu before the two years. The fact is, in the war with Whitebeard there was no one except for two people who could put Admiral Akainu in his place. Those two People are Shanks and White Beard. Everyone else on that battle field never came close to what White Beard and Shanks did to admiral Akainu. They could do only one thing and that was slow Admiral Akainu down or loose to him.
For one thing, Shanks stopping Akainu doesn't necessarily mean he could defeat him. He simply intercepted him, nothing more than that.

And BB took on Garp and Sengoku at the same time, so why is it so far-fetched to believe he could contend with Akainu?

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Fact number two Van Augur, Jesus Burgess, Doc Q, and Laffite could not even get near or touch Ace. Why would they be able to hurt Admiral Akainu? The next question would be what about the level six prisoners that Black Beard has in his crew? They count for something right? They would not have made a difference in my opinion. Crocodile, Jinbei, and Ace were level six prisoners too. How well did they fair against Admiral Akainu? That does not count the Whitebeard Pirate members who would have qualified as level six prisoners. How did they fair against Admiral Akainu, when they were trying to save Luffy? Black Beard was not able to beat any yonkou before the two years so I donít see how he would have been able to defeat Admiral Akainu let alone any other Admiral.
We haven't even seen the full capabilities of the BB pirates. But what we do know is that they're all extremely dangerous. Akainu's logia intangibility means nothing against BB (and perhaps some other members depending on whether they can utilize Haki).

BB took 2 attacks from an ENRAGED WB and merely shrugged off the pain moments later, whereas Akainu was knocked out for a while after receiving the same treatment. In terms of durability, BB has Akainu beat.

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Conclusion
I am not underestimating Black Beard. I am just going off what was in the manga. This is how I came to these opinions. It will change in time when Black Beard proves himself. As for the Yonkous the fact remains White Beard started the wars and Shanks dictated the end of the war. One of the three powers is the Yonkou positions in the one piece universe. The one piece Universe seems to treat them differently.
How hasn't BB proved himself to you? He effortlessly defeated Ace, which is truly an impressive feat; He's amassed a crew comprised of the world's most dangerous criminals; He fearlessly fought against marine legends Garp and Sengoku SIMULTANEOUSLY; Shanks takes him seriously; He can nullify any DF ability with his darkness; And he possesses the unrivaled destructive power of quakes.

If all that wasn't enough, the Gorosei now consider him a major threat. At this point, he's the best candidate for new emperor.
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Old 2010-12-11, 00:30   Link #205
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But why allow him to keep walking?
Maybe because he is incapable of beating BB, and he knows it himself?
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Old 2010-12-11, 06:06   Link #206
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BB took 2 attacks from an ENRAGED WB and merely shrugged off the pain moments later, whereas Akainu was knocked out for a while after receiving the same treatment. In terms of durability, BB has Akainu beat.
although BB only took one quake-attack, first was a slash

also, even though the first blow from WB took Akainu off-guard, he was able to immediately respond with a meigou, of which a glancing blow tore off like 1/3 of WB's head


and I think Akainu wasn't actually knocked out, otherwise he would've fallen into the water unconscious .. he bid his time and tunneled the underground for a surprise attack on Luffy


both of them are extremely tough bastards, maybe not on WB level, but ~Garp or so



and saying that BB and his ENTIRE crew couldn't defeat Akainu alone is just wrong IMHO .. heavy/very heavy casualties - possibly, probably, but they certainly could've taken him
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Old 2010-12-11, 14:08   Link #207
grey_1960
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Response to Black Beard D. Kuma
If Admiral Akainu's intangibility means nothing to black beard then he wouldn't have any problem with taking the marine ship from Admiral Akainu by force. You say it is to avoid heavy casualties of the crew. Understandable and wise tactic. My question is why not pull back your forces and deal with Admiral Akainu on your own then? Black Beard did it with Ace did he not? I am betting admiral Akainu would have welcomed a one on one.

Second is it fact or speculation that the Black Beard crew have haki before the two year time?

Third Shanks intercepting Admiral Akainu speaks volumes of his power. Your right that Shanks intercepting Admiral Akainu doesn't mean he would have defeated him. In my opinion if the marines would have taken on Shanks and his Crew they would have lost or crippled themselves beyond recovery.

Conclusion
Admiral Akainu defeated Ace too. Just because you your a criminal doesn't mean your a strong player. I will admit having Five pirate members from level six should prove interesting, especially Shiliew ( He is the only crew member of the Black Bear pirate I like). The only reasons I can see Shanks sparing Black Beard is because he was still White Beards problem. Finally the scar on shanks eye that was from Black Beard. It is considered the badge of honor for Black Beard. Tell me did Black Beard give that to shanks when he was still in the White Beard crew? If so that would mean Shanks was already handy capped by White beard protection. If anyone goes after White Beard Son then they would have felt the wrath of White Beard. I agree on the fact that Black Beard is an opportunist. In my opinion I believe Black Beard would use White Beards crew status to his advantage. But how Black Beard gave shanks that scar is pure speculation.

Sorry for the Late response

Response to Paradox 13
If Black Beard is that powerful why didn't the marines grant Black Beard the same respect and political dignitary they granted Shanks? When Shanks stepped in the whole marine force and Admiral Akainu stopped fighting. All sides were forced to acknowledge Shanks. Shanks gave Black Beard and anyone that option to battle him. Why were there no takers? Why didn't Black Beard step up fight him? I am sure the marine would have be more the delighted to letting two pirate destroy each other. Screw the Island just relocate the Marine Headquarters and let the two pirates fight.

Last edited by grey_1960; 2010-12-11 at 14:33.
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Old 2010-12-11, 15:08   Link #208
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If Admiral Akainu's intangibility means nothing to black beard then he wouldn't have any problem with taking the marine ship from Admiral Akainu by force. You say it is to avoid heavy casualties of the crew. Understandable and wise tactic. My question is why not pull back your forces and deal with Admiral Akainu on your own then? Black Beard did it with Ace did he not? I am betting admiral Akainu would have welcomed a one on one.
his intangibility only is nullified after BB touches him .. before that there's a very good chance of getting a lava fist in your torso .. and btw, touching lava = bad for health

and he had to take on Ace, his whole plan on getting a Warlord post depended on that .. + Ace kinda found him and wanted to kill him


here it's heavy casualties (maybe his own death) vs ... a ship .. do the math



Quote:
But how Black Beard gave shanks that scar is pure speculation.
Shanks said it was in combat and not a sneak-attack



Quote:
Why didn't Black Beard step up fight him?
if you read the manga - BB himself said it was not yet time to take on Shanks, especially around the most powerful marines in the world who would be happy to kill the weakened winner



Quote:
When Shanks stepped in the whole marine force and Admiral Akainu stopped fighting.
no, they stopped because Sengoku told them to and he isn't an extremist as Akainu and actually considered their casualties and the idea of fighting WB's crew, BB+crew and Shanks+crew at the same time .. their objectives were fulfilled for the most part anyway .. Akainu would've fought against everyone and anyone alone if he had to


though this was probably the best time for all of them (marine + WB + shanks) to turn on BB, but that would mean a pirate/marine alliance and that's a no-go .. and besides, Shanks wanted to stop ALL fighting (even against BB), WB crew wanted to get the hell away (they lost Ace and WB and were wounded - even Marco & Jozu) and Sengoku conceded .. this was also partly because, apparently, Sengoku actually respects Shanks (he hasn't shown any of that towards WB) and thus obliged





BB will obviously be a major player in the future and I don't see how you can just brush him aside like that .. how his own power will fare against the admirals and the yonkou - we will see .. I, personally, would say that after 2 years of practicing with WB's fruit he'll be in their league for sure
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Old 2010-12-11, 15:50   Link #209
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Actually they stopped before the orders. When Shanks gave his speech everyone on all sides stopped and there was dead silence. Sengoku orders were on the last page of Chapter 580. That after Shanks challenged everyone to step forward to face him and Shanks hashed out a deal with Fleet Admiral Sengoku.

I am not brushing him aside. I am only judging Black Beard based on his actions we have seen so far. If you come to a different conclusion on black beard that is your own opinion.

If that scar happened at the time Black Beard was in White Beard crew then that would mean regardless wether it was combat or sneak attack Shanks would not have been able to kill black Beard without going to war with white Beard. That why i refer to it has a handy cap. Good example you attack Europe what would happen. All the countries associated in NATO would attack.

Sorry about the editing. If some of your post seems off from my post that my fault.

Last edited by grey_1960; 2010-12-11 at 16:28.
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Old 2010-12-11, 16:00   Link #210
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well, it's obvious that if Sengoku told the Marines to continue fighting - they would've continued


everyone stopped after Coby's outburst too, that doesn't mean much, it was just sudden and unexpected .. Shanks has a powerful presence, is a major player and made a reasonable offer, which Sengoku took, but the final word & decision were Sengoku's
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Old 2010-12-11, 16:07   Link #211
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Your speculating what he thought after Shanks made the challenge offer.
his words ~'fine, lets take a break, it's not yet time to be taking on the likes of you (Shanks)' are straight from the manga
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Old 2010-12-16, 23:12   Link #212
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If Admiral Akainu's intangibility means nothing to black beard then he wouldn't have any problem with taking the marine ship from Admiral Akainu by force. You say it is to avoid heavy casualties of the crew. Understandable and wise tactic. My question is why not pull back your forces and deal with Admiral Akainu on your own then? Black Beard did it with Ace did he not? I am betting admiral Akainu would have welcomed a one on one.
Due to the destructive nature of their powers, there's a really high chance they would've destroyed the ship while fighting. Akainu would maybe even try to destroy it in order to ensure that BB could not escape.

BB knew that the marines backed out on the deal, so he wasn't going to get the ship no matter what. Therefore, rather than deal with trouble, it was best to flee.
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Old 2010-12-19, 20:53   Link #213
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Y'know, if the whole cerberus thing with Blackbeard IS true, it would kinda explain his actions. He's acted with courage and cowardice, strategy and inconsequence, intelligence and stupidity. This could be the whole "multiple personality" rumor that's gone around what with his flag and Devil Fruits, which would somewhat explain his actions like retreating from the fight with Akainu mentioned above.


Personally, I see Blackbeard as the villian that we'll have at the end of the series. Extremely strong and deceptive, power-hungry and greedy, willing to sacrifice others for power, and shares the same dream of being King of the Pirates. Not only does his first Devil Fruit represent Darkness, but he's also the only person so far to have 2 Devil Fruits, which makes him unique to the series. Also, the Blackbeard Pirates already have alot of fight match-ups right now....

- Luffy vs Blackbeard
- Zoro vs Shiliew
- Usopp vs Van Augur
- Chopper vs Doc Q/Stronger
- Franky vs Jesus Burgess
- Brook vs Lafitte
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Old 2010-12-20, 15:52   Link #214
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Personally, I see Blackbeard as the villian that we'll have at the end of the series. Extremely strong and deceptive, power-hungry and greedy, willing to sacrifice others for power, and shares the same dream of being King of the Pirates. Not only does his first Devil Fruit represent Darkness, but he's also the only person so far to have 2 Devil Fruits, which makes him unique to the series. Also, the Blackbeard Pirates already have alot of fight match-ups right now....

- Luffy vs Blackbeard
- Zoro vs Shiliew
- Usopp vs Van Augur
- Chopper vs Doc Q/Stronger
- Franky vs Jesus Burgess
- Brook vs Lafitte
Blackbeard as a villain has been one of the possibilities for the end of the series, but we have yet to see other factors: Buggy, Sir Crocodile, all the known Supernovas, the World Nobles, the Elder Stars, and especially Monkey D. Dragon. As for the match-ups, here's how I see it:

-Luffy vs Blackbeard
-Zoro vs Shiliew
-Nami vs Catrina Devon
-Usopp vs Van Augur
-Sanji vs Vasco Shot
-Chopper vs Doc Q/Stronger
-Robin vs Avalo Pizarro
-Franky vs Jesus Burgess
-Brook vs Lafitte
-(possibility) Surume (our tamed kraken) vs San Juan Wolf
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Old 2010-12-21, 00:27   Link #215
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Has Oda given any more clues as to

Spoiler:
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Old 2010-12-21, 00:29   Link #216
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Nope. All we know is that he covered himself and Whitebeard's corpse with a black cloak and did whatever it was to obtain the Gura Gura no Mi there.

I'm sure this mystery isn't going to be touched upon again until the Strawhat's next encounter with the Blackbeard Pirates. And who knows how long that'll be?
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Old 2010-12-21, 00:36   Link #217
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Probably not until near the end of the manga. So do you think it's Blackbeard's physiology or the Yami Yami no Mi that lets him have two Devil Fruits?
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Old 2010-12-21, 00:53   Link #218
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Probably not until near the end of the manga. So do you think it's Blackbeard's physiology or the Yami Yami no Mi that lets him have two Devil Fruits?

Well, if he was able to do it without the power of the Yami Yami Fruit, then I doubt he really would have had to kill Thatch. And as Teach has said, the Yami Yami no Mi Fruit is "unique", even for a Logia Fruit. All in all, I think it all comes down to the same thing he does when he nullifies a Devil Fruit user's power, only something to do with a corpse.
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Old 2010-12-21, 00:57   Link #219
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You know, I've always believed that his DF nullification came from the Yami Yami no Mi's absorption ability. Basically, whenever he's in contact with the enemy his fruit is "sucking in" the opponent's fruit's powers.
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Old 2010-12-21, 00:58   Link #220
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You know, I've always believed that his DF nullification came from the Yami Yami no Mi's absorption ability. Basically, whenever he's in contact with the enemy his fruit is "sucking in" the opponent's fruit's powers.

That's basically how Blackbeard described it~
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