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Old 2010-12-22, 08:41   Link #20181
Kirroha
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I think that in Ep5, "Beatrice" seems to have been taking on an entirely different stance altogether, which will explain why she never appeared in the gold room. Because she hasn't given up. In Ep5, her goal is to incriminate Natsuhi, which is very different from the other game boards. So naturally she won't be there to confess.
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Old 2010-12-22, 08:45   Link #20182
Vylen
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I'm not sure if that's the goal of "Beatrice" in Ep5... because those phone calls to Natsuhi come from Lambda rather than anyone on the game board... it's a bit odd to say the least.
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Old 2010-12-22, 08:57   Link #20183
Kirroha
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Lambda isn't the one making the calls literally. The person making the calls is the 'man from 19 years ago', who is supposedly her piece, which is why it appears that she is making the calls. But Ep7 sort of shows that Yasu-Beatrice is the Man from 19 years ago.
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Old 2010-12-22, 09:59   Link #20184
confusionjunkie
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If we assume that Erika is another part of Yasu/Shannon's personality then why she didn't show up in the gold room in Episode 5 makes perfect sense. She was busy being Erika at the time.
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Old 2010-12-22, 10:11   Link #20185
Vylen
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Not really... especially when there's been instances in Ep5 of Erika, Shannon and Kanon being in the same room as each other:
- Discovery of Hideyoshi's corpse.
- Soon afterwards in the parlor when Erika is about to name Natsuhi as the culprit - she even asks Shannon and Kanon to close the doors; "Shannon and Kanon closed the door."
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Old 2010-12-22, 10:18   Link #20186
confusionjunkie
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That's what bothers me: Erika's perspective can't be totally absolute since she saw Shannon and Kanon together. Either Kanon is not a personality of Shannon's, or Erika isn't a trustworthy detective. Those are the only two ways that could work that I can think of. I may be wrong though.
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Old 2010-12-22, 10:26   Link #20187
Vylen
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In Ep5 she has a detective's authority - she sees thing objectively. This just means that the game by Lambda had both a Shannon and Kanon piece, as opposed to a Shannon/Yasu piece that dresses up as Kanon.
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Old 2010-12-22, 10:34   Link #20188
confusionjunkie
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Then clearly Lambda shouldn't have been the Game Master. I thought it had pretty much been established that Kanon doesn't really exist by this point. If we take that into account, we should ignore Episode 5 all together because the Game Master is incompetent and lies a lot about the truth of the gameboard.
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Old 2010-12-22, 10:39   Link #20189
Vylen
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With the detective's authority, Erika is given the power to form an assembly of all people, without fail. Obviously that would create unnecessary issues with the Shannon/Yasu piece that dresses up as Kanon. To counter that, Lambda put the individual Shannon and Kanon pieces on the board.
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Old 2010-12-22, 10:42   Link #20190
Yopee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vylen View Post
I'm not sure if that's the goal of "Beatrice" in Ep5... because those phone calls to Natsuhi come from Lambda rather than anyone on the game board... it's a bit odd to say the least.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirroha View Post
Lambda isn't the one making the calls literally. The person making the calls is the 'man from 19 years ago', who is supposedly her piece, which is why it appears that she is making the calls. But Ep7 sort of shows that Yasu-Beatrice is the Man from 19 years ago.
I always assumed YasuShannontrice wasn't the ymf19ya calling Natsuhi on the other end of the line via chessboard thinking because of the favourite season trick. Beato would have had autumn scrawled in red paint on the wall or something obvious rather than a puny little card under some object that could go unnoticed.
And I found it really odd that Erika and Bern would leave the trick alone unexposed, being the intellectual rapist and Beato guts spiller they are. Only real reason I can think of is that maybe the trick was just too easy?
Same goes for Berune's missing master key. That's one of yasu's first instances of doing 'magic' yet Bern leaves it alone.
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Old 2010-12-22, 10:46   Link #20191
Vylen
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Originally Posted by Yopee View Post
I always assumed YasuShannontrice wasn't the ymf19ya calling Natsuhi on the other end of the line via chessboard thinking because of the favourite season trick. Beato would have had autumn scrawled in red paint on the wall or something obvious rather than a puny little card under some object that could go unnoticed.
And I found it really odd that Erika and Bern would leave the trick alone unexposed, being the intellectual rapist and Beato guts spiller they are. Only real reason I can think of is that maybe the trick was just too easy?
Same goes for Berune's missing master key. That's one of yasu's first instances of doing 'magic' yet Bern leaves it alone.
Yes, the trick is too easy - it's also why I don't think it was Yasu making the call.
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Old 2010-12-22, 10:46   Link #20192
confusionjunkie
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Ah, then why did Will think it was a bad idea to force Shannon and Kanon together in Episode 7? If their pieces could go together with no problems to the board, then he should have made them stand together. That he chose not to should mean something.

Therefore, either something is wrong with Episode 5 or we can't trust Episode 7.
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Old 2010-12-22, 10:46   Link #20193
Cao Ni Ma
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In this case the game "had no love" but it still is an accurate game, with culprit and everything. Then is this culprit one of the people that was laying "dead" in the room at the start of it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by confusionjunkie View Post
Ah, then why did Will think it was a bad idea to force Shannon and Kanon together in Episode 7? If their pieces could go together with no problems to the board, then he should have made them stand together. That he chose not to should mean something.

Therefore, either something is wrong with Episode 5 or we can't trust Episode 7.
It might have forced Shannon to make a decision that would cause her to fall into a logic error since as of right now, most of the locked rooms are solved with name/personality answer. That doesn't mean she couldn't have done it though. I believe that all logic errors have a possible solution, either you cant see it or you refuse to bring it to light.
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Old 2010-12-22, 10:47   Link #20194
Kirroha
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I don't think Natsuhi would not notice if she comes into her own room and sees "AUTUMN" scrawled on the wall. XD It has to be inconspicuous such that Natsuhi only sees it when she is actually told to.
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Old 2010-12-22, 10:51   Link #20195
Vylen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by confusionjunkie View Post
Ah, then why did Will think it was a bad idea to force Shannon and Kanon together in Episode 7? If their pieces could go together with no problems to the board, then he should have made them stand together. That he chose not to should mean something.

Therefore, either something is wrong with Episode 5 or we can't trust Episode 7.
Hm? That's simply cause Ep7 would have the Shannon/Yasu piece that dresses up as Kanon. Will thought it was a bad idea to force Shannon and Kanon together since he had a sense of foreboding... well, anyone would have a sense of foreboding after reading such jagged speech from Shannon. It sorta goes beyond my imagination what would've possibly happened if he went through with forcing them - might've turned into a horror show.
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Old 2010-12-22, 10:53   Link #20196
Yopee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirroha View Post
I don't think Natsuhi would not notice if she comes into her own room and sees "AUTUMN" scrawled on the wall. XD It has to be inconspicuous such that Natsuhi only sees it when she is actually told to.
That's exactly the point! Beato never does creepy things that go unnoticed! Yet we have this completely unnoticeable, low-profile autumn underneath some object which Natsuhi has to be asked to flip over to notice. It's too roundabout, not like Beato's upfront style. It's too logical.
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Old 2010-12-22, 10:56   Link #20197
Renall
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Trust me, after EP8 there will be people that will say: "I don't buy it".

Then Ryuukishi will say in an official interview: "It was all true!"

And some people will still say: "I don't buy it! I don't trust Ryuukishi! If that's the truth why he didn't say it in red? Aaaah?!"
Hey, stop pre-empting my response!
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Originally Posted by Vylen View Post
Yes, the trick is too easy - it's also why I don't think it was Yasu making the call.
Yeah, like somebody who knows a little bit of magic, but doesn't have a theatrical flair. Someone who might be close to Yasu, but not actually Yasu. Now who could that be...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirroha View Post
I don't think Natsuhi would not notice if she comes into her own room and sees "AUTUMN" scrawled on the wall. XD It has to be inconspicuous such that Natsuhi only sees it when she is actually told to.
There are several cool tricks to make something appear where it isn't expected. My favorite is writing on a mirror with a bar of soap. Of course that requires somebody take a hot shower to "appear."
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Old 2010-12-22, 11:03   Link #20198
Cao Ni Ma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renall View Post
Yeah, like somebody who knows a little bit of magic, but doesn't have a theatrical flair. Someone who might be close to Yasu, but not actually Yasu. Now who could that be..."
I think you're thinking the same way I've been thinking for a while now Makes some scenes hilarious in hindsight
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Old 2010-12-22, 11:23   Link #20199
Vylen
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Are the ceilings high in the mansion? Cause I was just thinking, that if it was Yasu, it would be the perfect place to paint AUTUMN in blood....

"Oh, I knew you liked Autumn... just like me. I'm not lying... Look up, mother"
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Old 2010-12-22, 11:49   Link #20200
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vylen View Post
Not really... especially when there's been instances in Ep5 of Erika, Shannon and Kanon being in the same room as each other:
- Discovery of Hideyoshi's corpse.
- Soon afterwards in the parlor when Erika is about to name Natsuhi as the culprit - she even asks Shannon and Kanon to close the doors; "Shannon and Kanon closed the door."
Quote:
Originally Posted by confusionjunkie View Post
That's what bothers me: Erika's perspective can't be totally absolute since she saw Shannon and Kanon together. Either Kanon is not a personality of Shannon's, or Erika isn't a trustworthy detective. Those are the only two ways that could work that I can think of. I may be wrong though.

She sees Dlanor, Cornelia and Gertrude, so why not Kanon and Shannon?
As long as those are her own furniture apparently she can see them.

Is there an instance where you have seen Kanon and Shannon interacting with a non furniture while Erika was present?
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Last edited by Jan-Poo; 2010-12-22 at 12:53.
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