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Old 2010-12-23, 09:05   Link #20241
Jan-Poo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
It's the 5th Game that makes everything click, though.
It was really not necessary and you know it. Everything was solvable after EP4, plus there is no evidence that Battler actually used EP5 to reach his solution. EP5 just provided him the knox rules.



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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Except no. EP5 even makes this big thing about how writings are an attempt by an author for the reader to understand their message. I mean, unless Agatha Christie is the culprit of her stories...
Agatha Christie doesn't figures in her stories. Also you are misinterpreting a bit of stuff. What EP5 "makes big thing about" is the trust among author and reader. You don't really need to understand the author's heart to solve a mystery.
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Old 2010-12-23, 09:18   Link #20242
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Agatha Christie doesn't figures in her stories.
Well, neither does Yasu. At the very least (if you believe she actually physically posed as Shannon or Kanon), she didn't portray herself as the person ep7 says she is.
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Old 2010-12-23, 15:45   Link #20243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Agatha Christie doesn't figures in her stories. Also you are misinterpreting a bit of stuff. What EP5 "makes big thing about" is the trust among author and reader. You don't really need to understand the author's heart to solve a mystery.
Agatha Christie may not, but Ariadne Oliver does.
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Old 2010-12-23, 16:06   Link #20244
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by rogerpepitone View Post
Agatha Christie may not, but Ariadne Oliver does.
To the detriment of virtually all of Christie's later books, yes.
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Old 2010-12-23, 16:34   Link #20245
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Quote:
It was really not necessary and you know it. Everything was solvable after EP4, plus there is no evidence that Battler actually used EP5 to reach his solution. EP5 just provided him the knox rules.
Now you're just splitting hairs.
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Old 2010-12-23, 17:40   Link #20246
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I didn't read this thread while ep7 wasn't translated and couldn't find the answer to my question: what about the final riddle of ep6? It's not like Shkannontrice theory was able to solve this one even before ep7. And still I don't see any fitting answer for this one, even after ep7.

Oh and also I didn't really understand the Ep2 T1 part in Clair vs Will confrontation. What's the deal with the gold truth and illusions about this one?

And yeah, they didn't even mention Natsuhi's death from ep1. Weird.
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Old 2010-12-23, 17:40   Link #20247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
It was really not necessary and you know it. Everything was solvable after EP4, plus there is no evidence that Battler actually used EP5 to reach his solution. EP5 just provided him the knox rules.
it was necessary for him. Because he's incompetent. I also think there are a few scenes he needed to get his solution. Not just Knox rules. It depends on your interpretation. Episode 5 for example would be needed to be certain about the fake first twilight. At the least anyway. It's true that you can come to that conclusion before it, but I don't beleive there's any proof that Battler believed that before then.
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Old 2010-12-23, 17:56   Link #20248
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Originally Posted by LaplaceNoMa View Post
I didn't read this thread while ep7 wasn't translated and couldn't find the answer to my question: what about the final riddle of ep6? It's not like Shkannontrice theory was able to solve this one even before ep7. And still I don't see any fitting answer for this one, even after ep7.
The "cups within cups, boards within boards" answer isn't dependent on Shkanon (but it can make use of Shkanon if it likes) and sort of solves it. Will didn't address Chiru's mysteries so an even vague "canon" answer is not existent at this time.
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Old 2010-12-23, 18:46   Link #20249
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Not sure if this was mentioned, but Ryuukishi posted another diary entry.

He didn't say anything for sure, but it sounds like he's far from finished as a writer with EP8. Apparently, he does want to make a 'Rei' for Umineko and is looking forward to writing a new work sometime in the future. No word about when he hopes to do any of this though.
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Old 2010-12-23, 21:21   Link #20250
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Has he got anything lined up in the immediate future?
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Old 2010-12-23, 22:06   Link #20251
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Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
it was necessary for him. Because he's incompetent. I also think there are a few scenes he needed to get his solution. Not just Knox rules. It depends on your interpretation. Episode 5 for example would be needed to be certain about the fake first twilight. At the least anyway. It's true that you can come to that conclusion before it, but I don't beleive there's any proof that Battler believed that before then.
To be honest I think that what really helped Battler was the conversation he had with Virgilia and Dlanor.

At any rate I find the idea that he completely failed after 4 episodes mastered by Beatrice only to finally understand everything because of a completely loveless game laughable at best.
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Old 2010-12-23, 23:33   Link #20252
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@Renall: Well, Rewrite is slated for April 28.

Also hello, I haven't posted on this board for a LONG time.
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Old 2010-12-24, 00:09   Link #20253
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Quote:
At any rate I find the idea that he completely failed after 4 episodes mastered by Beatrice only to finally understand everything because of a completely loveless game laughable at best.
Loveless or not, the board did have new and useful information, and we the readers were given it for a reason. You're just kind of throwing a bit of a fit, here.

Quote:
Oh and also I didn't really understand the Ep2 T1 part in Clair vs Will confrontation. What's the deal with the gold truth and illusions about this one?

And yeah, they didn't even mention Natsuhi's death from ep1. Weird.
Simply put: Someone shot Natsuhi, the chapel was never locked.
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Old 2010-12-24, 01:06   Link #20254
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For the record, Will's deductions were basically summed up as: there were no closed rooms, we were just fooled into thinking they were closed.

...Honestly, a bit of a cheap answer, but oh well.
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Old 2010-12-24, 01:18   Link #20255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaplaceNoMa View Post
I didn't read this thread while ep7 wasn't translated and couldn't find the answer to my question: what about the final riddle of ep6? It's not like Shkannontrice theory was able to solve this one even before ep7. And still I don't see any fitting answer for this one, even after ep7.
Wait, the final riddle of ep6? Isn't this easy with the Shkannontrice theory? Shannon escapes from window, becomes Kanon, saves Battler, hides in closet, then while in closet he becomes Shannon. "Kanon" no longer exists in the room, or anywhere else for that matter.
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Old 2010-12-24, 01:28   Link #20256
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Originally Posted by Marion View Post
For the record, Will's deductions were basically summed up as: there were no closed rooms, we were just fooled into thinking they were closed.

...Honestly, a bit of a cheap answer, but oh well.
It's not that cheap, inasmuch as most of the time Battler just assumed they were closed rooms on his own.
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Old 2010-12-24, 01:48   Link #20257
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I think if we take the Closed Room Lecture from the Hollow Man / The Three Coffins, then there really can't be a closed room murder for reals. It all has to be a trick of some kind.

Basically, a closed room murder isn't a closed room or isn't a murder. 8) There's no way but to be cheap.

Although Umineko did do some interesting things; i.e. someone else coming in, taking the place of someone inside and restoring the closed room. That was kinda neat...
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Old 2010-12-24, 01:49   Link #20258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loctar87 View Post
Wait, the final riddle of ep6? Isn't this easy with the Shkannontrice theory? Shannon escapes from window, becomes Kanon, saves Battler, hides in closet, then while in closet he becomes Shannon. "Kanon" no longer exists in the room, or anywhere else for that matter.
Can you come up with a reason for why that happens, though?
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Old 2010-12-24, 02:17   Link #20259
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Originally Posted by chronotrig View Post
Not sure if this was mentioned, but Ryuukishi posted another diary entry.

He didn't say anything for sure, but it sounds like he's far from finished as a writer with EP8. Apparently, he does want to make a 'Rei' for Umineko and is looking forward to writing a new work sometime in the future. No word about when he hopes to do any of this though.
It's also rather comforting seeing how happy he is about the content of EP8 in the last couple entries. He said he managed to put in everything he wanted, and it was the episode he had the most fun writing out of all of them.
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Old 2010-12-24, 03:23   Link #20260
Renall
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Are we... are we positive that's a good sign?
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