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Old 2010-12-23, 15:59   Link #7461
musouka
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Not that I want to get into this again, but I'm pretty sure this chapter wasn't particularly shippy for any party.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlassesLady View Post
To those of you who thought the events after EotW were 'uninteresting' or whatever.... how exactly did you make it though the ~200 chapters before that arc started?
Simple. I like Nagi and Hayate's relationship. It was the school chapters that started getting old for me, not the idea of the series itself. I didn't find Nagi's current arc interesting enough to keep reading, but as a whole I'm invested in her character. (I also figured it was bad form to do nothing but complain, so when I went on my reading hiatus, I also took a hiatus from the forum.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by madmac View Post
Now that I think about it, Athena has had the Shirozakura with her ever since she left the Royal Garden. It's not too farfetched that it's connected to her power in some way even though she (apparently) can't wield it herself.
Yeah, that's what I figured. She even pointed it out to Hayate as something he might wield someday in the EotW arc. So that's another point of similarity between him and Hinagiku's characters.
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Old 2010-12-23, 16:06   Link #7462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion View Post
Hayate's mouth confessed that he loves Athena when he says it to Hinagiku, and later to Athena herself. His body language when they interact after defeating Midas, however, says differently (which is what I was trying to get across to you in our debate).
The body language is what's important.
Such is just one instance of what Nagi means when she says earlier that 'words are imprecise'.

I don't think anyone is going to agree with you here...... At least when it involves Athena. Since its sounds more like an interpretation in which no one else can see almost sounding bias, like twisting towards your view.

It would be best if you can select a picture or part of the manga so we all can conclude ourselves. Although this body language talk is starting to sound about suss, whether it is merely interpretation or simple a Hinagiku fan trying to prove otherwise.
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Old 2010-12-23, 16:46   Link #7463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemuru View Post
I don't think anyone is going to agree with you here...... At least when it involves Athena. Since its sounds more like an interpretation in which no one else can see almost sounding bias, like twisting towards your view.

It would be best if you can select a picture or part of the manga so we all can conclude ourselves. Although this body language talk is starting to sound about suss, whether it is merely interpretation or simple a Hinagiku fan trying to prove otherwise.
*Sigh*
Compare:
Spoiler for Athena:

Spoiler for Hinagiku:


The reactions are completely different. Athena he doesn't even react until she forces him to, and even then it's by physical force.
Hinagiku he reacts to, in words as well as actions, without any force or physical interaction. Hinagiku doesn't even think she will attract his attention. The next page of Hinagiku's link even has her counter-react and stay on that topic mentally for the rest of the night, while Athena goes and gives us exposition.
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Old 2010-12-23, 16:56   Link #7464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlassesLady View Post
To those of you who thought the events after EotW were 'uninteresting' or whatever.... how exactly did you make it though the ~200 chapters before that arc started?
To be honest, I had lost interest long before - for me, romantic comedies are like skirts. They should be long enough to cover the point, but short enough to keep things interesting, and HnG had become far too long that I didn't find it funny nor interesting any more. In fact, I'd only read the Hina and Maria centric chapters, and skip the rest - I did read them later, after the EoTW arc, though.

The EoTW arc gave me a reason to keep reading this manga - i.e. a plot, and a character I like better than the rest (even more than my previous favourites).
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Old 2010-12-23, 17:05   Link #7465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion View Post
*Sigh*
Compare:
Spoiler for Athena:

Spoiler for Hinagiku:
I think this is a better example for Athena. Since it occurs under similar circumstances.

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Old 2010-12-23, 17:14   Link #7466
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Quote:
By the way, some fridge logic (this side of fourth wall): To those of you who thought the events after EotW were 'uninteresting' or whatever.... how exactly did you make it though the ~200 chapters before that arc started? EotW was the outlier in terms of mood and events, and while I don't mind if you're only hanging around for the serious arcs at least don't complain about the rest of it, since that's what the series has been since the beginning. (I'm pretty sure Hata has said he doesn't even like doing serious story arcs, but don't quote me on that.)
Obviously I'm not one of the people you're talking about here, but just to throw out a supporting view, while I really enjoyed the Golden Week Arc a great deal, towards the end (Around 256-ish, say) I was getting pretty burned out on the whole thing and really looking forward to the series getting back to it's normal groove. As such, for me the post-Athena arc was like a breath of fresh air. A little clunky in places (The Maria focused chapters just didn't work, sadly) but for me a lot of fun and Nagi's subtle character development is interesting to watch.

I had a similar reaction to watching Season 2 where I was digging the romantic development and such but when I got to episode 19 it reminded me of how much I missed the old zany comedy of the first season and episode 25 ended up being one of my favorites just because it felt like a "back-to-basics" story. There's no characters I really dislike and I like the drama and new characters and plot twists as much as anyone, but ultimately it seems it's the comedy and core set-up between Hayate and Nagi that keeps me reading.
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Old 2010-12-23, 17:18   Link #7467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion View Post
*Sigh*
Compare:
Spoiler for Athena:

Spoiler for Hinagiku:


The reactions are completely different. Athena he doesn't even react until she forces him to, and even then it's by physical force.
Hinagiku he reacts to, in words as well as actions, without any force or physical interaction. Hinagiku doesn't even think she will attract his attention. The next page of Hinagiku's link even has her counter-react and stay on that topic mentally for the rest of the night, while Athena goes and gives us exposition.
lol, hohohohoho................

Okay here is my interpretation

picture 1 : Hayate is acting shyly while trying to avoid looking directly at Athena. The top right panel shows blush meaning he is seeing beauty. The third panel (going from left to right) shows both of them avoiding eye contact which is normal when you like someone or exhibiting shyness in general.
Notice the speech bubbles (panel 3) it illustrates them trying to saying, they want to say something but can’t think of anything to say at moment. Maybe you should look up the meaning of tactless it is something that hayate doesn’t show often which implies something ^^,

Picture 2:
Well I might be bias but he is entrance by beauty somewhat, although it doesn't mean much since it is a normal reaction for males to be awe struck. And if you can compliment someone directly Hayate is either bold or just means as it is without hidden meanings, although he does compliment everyone when they are dress up (which is the root for most of the misunderstanding)

I would say avoiding eye contact after blushing is a more powerful reaction rather admiring beauty which is an everyday occurrence.

So now we have my interpretation from imagines, although with the manga style I wouldn't put much thought into it since the author doesn't have a knack for drawing detailed emotion. Now let see what poster 2-10 has to say about the same picture.

Last edited by Nemuru; 2010-12-23 at 17:28.
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Old 2010-12-23, 18:09   Link #7468
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The circumstances used for the comparison is different, so I won't say it's a good one. I don't remember any of the other girls even think (not attempt) of sitting in front Hayate between his legs, so I can't really compare his reactions. Although, it was obvious through the chapter that he doesn't mind if it's Athena, and he even willingly (his choice) to embrace her from behind. Moreover, he even asked Athena whether she's alright with the way he embraced her, which was an initiative he never make on any other girl in embarrassing situations.

He really does think Hina is beautiful (no doubt), but he was much more so in awe with Maria's (in normal clothes, no less) beauty on their first meeting. So, I don't think there's any meaning to it accept praising Hina's beauty, and he'd probably said something similar to every girl in a dress. And, the fact is, despite having the beautiful Hina being with him, he never once/couldn't enjoyed (although he tried) the time his was spending time with her during the evening. All he thinks about was Athena to the point where it was impossible for him to hide it regardless of how hard he tried to pretend. I think that speaks of his value of Athena compare to Hina.
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Old 2010-12-23, 18:34   Link #7469
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I don't think that there was any real shipping material in this chapter ^_^; ... just what we've come to expect from the characters. Hina having huge embarrassment attacks as always, Hayate being dense as always, allowing himself to be gofered around by enigmatic little princess A-tan, as always, who is obviously in trouble again, as always.

*shrug*
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Old 2010-12-23, 18:38   Link #7470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zodanhko View Post
The circumstances used for the comparison is different, so I won't say it's a good one. I don't remember any of the other girls even think (not attempt) of sitting in front Hayate between his legs, so I can't really compare his reactions. Although, it was obvious through the chapter that he doesn't mind if it's Athena, and he even willingly (his choice) to embrace her from behind. Moreover, he even asked Athena whether she's alright with the way he embraced her, which was an initiative he never make on any other girl in embarrassing situations.
Actually, he tries to get out of it, he tries to give her his coat to get her away, for several panels. He only embraces her after she refuses to take it and requests that he hug her.
Given that when he tried to hug Hinagiku (in her Silver Red costume, so he doesn't know it's her), she responds by punching him away, one would think of asking if the hug was alright with them to be sure he wasn't going to be punished for it.

He also apparently needs proper prompting when asked to speak of what he's noticed has grown about her. He has similar reactions when he sees Ayumu in her underclothes and nude, and when he sees Maria, both without prompting.

He also punctuates the fact that he's constantly thinking of Athena that night (before Hinagiku makes her appearance) because he's trying to figure things out, including why he's feeling the way he is after seeing her for the first time in ten years. Until Hinagiku asks him how he feels about her, there's no hint of love in his thoughts.

And the looks, all of the girls who he's, both by words and actions, found attractive he wants to look at, including Maria, Izumi, Ayumu and Hinagiku, to not want to look at the one who he says he loves says a lot.
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Programming today is a race between programmers trying to create better idiot-proof programs, and the world creating better idiots.
The world is winning.. by leaps and bounds.

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Old 2010-12-23, 19:05   Link #7471
musouka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Hayate being dense as always, allowing himself to be gofered around by enigmatic little princess A-tan, as always
Yeah, I liked those bits, but also the random panels of Athena's head barely in the frame. The one that springs instantly to mind is the one where she's checking out the apartment building, but I also liked her watching the exchange between Hayate and Hinagiku near the end.

The last panel also gives me much hope of Nagi-Athena interaction. ::crosses fingers::
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Old 2010-12-23, 19:12   Link #7472
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Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion View Post
Actually, he tries to get out of it, he tries to give her his coat to get her away, for several panels. He only embraces her after she refuses to take it and requests that he hug her.
Given that when he tried to hug Hinagiku (in her Silver Red costume, so he doesn't know it's her), she responds by punching him away, one would think of asking if the hug was alright with them to be sure he wasn't going to be punished for it.
He didn't try to run away (but misunderstood what Athena wanted), which was proven when he had no problem hugging her after he realized what she hinted him on what to do...
He asked her whether she minds by his embrace since he was the one trying to do it. He didn't care about being punished because he was attempting to hug her. He won't embrace her if he was a afraid of being punished.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion View Post
He also apparently needs proper prompting when asked to speak of what he's noticed has grown about her. He has similar reactions when he sees Ayumu in her underclothes and nude, and when he sees Maria, both without prompting.

He also punctuates the fact that he's constantly thinking of Athena that night because he's trying to figure things out, including why he's feeling the way he is after seeing her for the first time in ten years. Until Hinagiku asks him how he feels about her, there's no hint of love in his thoughts.

And the looks, all of the girls who he's, both by words and actions, found attractive he wants to look at, including Maria, Izumi, Ayumu and Hinagiku, to not want to look at the one who he says he loves says a lot.
1st Paragraph: Don't know what you wanted to say.

2nd: The hint was his depression mood of thinking that Athena hates him. Yes, he didn't know what Athena was to him, and he just got emo from the thoughts of being on a bad term with Athena. Some feelings he had/has for her (unconsciously). Because of the thoughts about Athena, he couldn't enjoy his time with Hina, yes...

3rd: Ughh.....What? Dude, he just answered Hina's question... Whether Athena is presence or not when he confessed his feelings for her is not important in dictating his feelings.

Last edited by zodanhko; 2010-12-23 at 19:24.
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Old 2010-12-23, 23:43   Link #7473
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I think Hayate really enjoyed his date with Hina back when it was the movie date and then the amusement park.

During the dinner of the Greek arc, Hayate was thinking about Althena so much that neither of them were enjoying themselves.
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Old 2010-12-24, 03:00   Link #7474
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At the end of the day, most people will agree that Hayate likes Athena more (if not the most).

You're not going to persuade many if any, even the most hardcore Hinagiku fan can see this. There's a reason why many of us are so puzzled at what you're trying to say or at least I will say you have the most vivid imagination that is better off writing fanfic.
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Old 2010-12-24, 03:53   Link #7475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemuru View Post
At the end of the day, most people will agree that Hayate likes Athena more (if not the most).

You're not going to persuade many if any, even the most hardcore Hinagiku fan can see this. There's a reason why many of us are so puzzled at what you're trying to say or at least I will say you have the most vivid imagination that is better off writing fanfic.
Actually, that's exactly why I'm puzzled. It's quite clear if you're actually paying attention to everything, including the other characters, that he doesn't love Athena more.
Hinagiku can be quite stupid sometimes, and even she's seeing clues to it. Why else would she have reacted the way she has in the last chapters if she thinks she's already lost? Hayate even told her that he loves Athena, yet she's not acting in any way like the game's over. And she's not even trying to play for herself!

Why would she care if Athena rejected him, if his heart still belongs to her, why try continuing to fight?
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Programming today is a race between programmers trying to create better idiot-proof programs, and the world creating better idiots.
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Last edited by Bastion_Arcion; 2010-12-24 at 04:05.
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Old 2010-12-24, 04:18   Link #7476
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Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion View Post
Actually, that's exactly why I'm puzzled. It's quite clear if you're actually paying attention to everything, including the other characters, that he doesn't love Athena more.
Hinagiku can be quite stupid sometimes, and even she's seeing clues to it. Why else would she have reacted the way she has in the last chapters if she thinks she's already lost? Hayate even told her that he loves Athena, yet she's not acting in any way like the game's over. And she's not even trying to play for herself!
If you pay attention at all, you should know that Athena is the only person Hayate evidently (from his mouth and mind) loved so far (not merely more).

And if you pay attention, you should know that Hayate told Hina that he got dumped by Athena in chapter 270 or 271, thus gave her hopes and prevented the game over . It was even stated by Ayumi that she and Hina might still have a chance if Athena dumps Hayate, when she tried to encourage Hina in chapter 240 or 241. (Can't remember the chapter...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion View Post
Why would she care if Athena rejected him, if his heart still belongs to her, why try continuing to fight?
Because like any other girls in love with a guy in EVERY HAREM, Hina, Ayumi, etc. wants to fight until the very end (possibly continue even after the end, lol) to get the guy...Even Ayumi didn't give up when believing her chance is slim compared to Hina and, further more, realized Hayate has been in love with a another girl for 10 years. If Hina gave up that easily, she should honor Ayumi as her idol.

Last edited by zodanhko; 2010-12-24 at 04:29.
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Old 2010-12-24, 04:35   Link #7477
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lol i love how 300-301 chapters turned out!! even if A-tan becomes a kid
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Old 2010-12-24, 04:57   Link #7478
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Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion View Post
Actually, that's exactly why I'm puzzled. It's quite clear if you're actually paying attention to everything, including the other characters, that he doesn't love Athena more.
Hinagiku can be quite stupid sometimes, and even she's seeing clues to it. Why else would she have reacted the way she has in the last chapters if she thinks she's already lost? Hayate even told her that he loves Athena, yet she's not acting in any way like the game's over. And she's not even trying to play for herself!
lol, it's probably a bad time to have these kinda discussion... but what's being highlighted, no one believes that. I mean that’s quite the exaggeration to believe so..... A-tan said no, not because she doesn't love Hayate anymore but for other reason (it's quite clear from the manga). Otherwise she wouldn't say "Let's return to Japan in the same chapter". Lol, why does it feel like I'm replying to a conspiracy theory, like trying to conspire the meaning of volume 25 being a lie and more recently chapter 300-301.

Anyone can tell there's still a relationship going; the meaning of farewell sometimes isn't just an end but circumstantial where feelings are still lingering. In my view volume 25 end chapter follows this situation. Rather trying to be suborn, about the matter, you should notice that interpretation can vary to each person base on an earlier post I wrote however the basis of interpretation shouldn't be use as a fact when something as vague as body language ( at least when it isn’t as detail enough, yes hayate looks the same in most situation)

Hinagiku (Hina-tan) can keep fighting because she has a chance but a very slim one atm. Yet there is nothing wrong with her to keep trying, since I enjoy characters with love interest trying their best to win.

What I'm looking for is how Hayate feel because the voices and feeling of the girls (Hayate Harem) are irreverent in the end decision. Not that it doesn't mean I don't support their action.

Atm I'm more or less trying to find post where people are in agreement with your accusation.

First is with regards to chapter 301 about Hayate affection regarding body language (although using interpretation isn’t reasoning for facts, it’s an opinion). Second would be this one regarding the events after volume 25 that Hayate doesn't love Athena more. I would be more willing to accept if you stated it as an opinion but otherwise what your trying to do is turning an opinion into a fact is where we have a disagreement.

Last edited by Nemuru; 2010-12-24 at 09:33.
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Old 2010-12-24, 09:29   Link #7479
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So much shipping talk for two chapters that have no meaningful shipping content at all.

Its not as if anything has changed since Golden Week ended, it's just a historical re-enactment of great wars in shipping history.

Quote:
The last panel also gives me much hope of Nagi-Athena interaction.
This is what I'm most looking forward too, personally. Athena has displayed a lot of curiosity about Nagi in the past and I really want to see how they interact.

I'm also hoping Hina drags Ayumu back with her because it just seems wrong to leave her out of the whole thing.

Seriously though, with all the (probable) fanservice and slapstick this set-up calls for this is precisely the worst time to be looking for meaningful shipping hints.
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Old 2010-12-24, 14:20   Link #7480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemuru View Post
First is with regards to chapter 301 about Hayate affection regarding body language (although using interpretation isnít reasoning for facts, itís an opinion). Second would be this one regarding the events after volume 25 that Hayate doesn't love Athena more. I would be more willing to accept if you stated it as an opinion but otherwise what your trying to do is turning an opinion into a fact is where we have a disagreement.
When you're done living in your 'human-centric' world, the rest of us will be waiting. Humans are the only race of creature that focus on words, and yet the rest of the world, animate and inanimate, still communicates with us. Humans don't even always use the same language to do so all the time.

Hinagiku is acting completely differently to a confession of words for Athena, than when she (falsely) thought Hayate was dating Ayumu.

There's lots of story going on in the character's actions that you can't just ignore. Nagi even said so after destroying the stone in the Golden Week arcs. You can't trust words to give you the true picture.

Hayate is not showing the level of affection his words are describing for Athena since his confession.

@madmac: This isn't a new discussion, it's just been kicked up again with the reemergence of Athena in the last few chapters.
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... Apparently there are now people in existence who are unable to use a shovel.

Programming today is a race between programmers trying to create better idiot-proof programs, and the world creating better idiots.
The world is winning.. by leaps and bounds.

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