2010-12-27, 05:22 | Link #3081 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
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In case of "Kumagawa may be an hero": Who knows, maybe "Mysterious Girl", aka "Aijimi", will turn out to be the true Big Bad and Kumagawa tried to kill her at middle school, because she wanted to release this "Beast" inside Medaka. XD EDIT: I just noticed, that Kumagawa shows a lot more (fake) face expression now, like "sad" or "bored"... And he never falls to amuse me with his antics! If Zenkichi is "Normal Cool", you can call Kumagawa "Evil Cool". Quote:
Someone like Medaka is maybe a hero for people of the first kind, but the natural enemy to people of the second. Maybe it will become a later plotpoint, that her "The End" starts to "perfect" other people, taking away their amusing character flaws and makes them "boring" (Arguably, that already happened!), and the only character, who keeps his flaws (bad fashion style, etc.) is Zenkichi, because "he doesn´t change". Or so they say... Spoiler for Spoiler for 81:
Last edited by Doc Astaroth; 2010-12-27 at 06:36. |
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2010-12-27, 09:14 | Link #3082 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
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2010-12-27, 10:50 | Link #3083 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Even though the Minus by definition have destructive powers, it doesn't mean they can't use them constructively. Kumagawa just showed Emukae how to help grow plants by decomposing organic material to create fertile soil. If a destructive power can still have constructive uses, then maybe the Minus aren't beyond redemption after all. Of course, whether that will actually happen is a different story.
Also, while Kumagawa himself is overwhemingly a Minus, his powers don't add up other Minuses on his team. For example, Emukae and Shibuki are free to use their powers on Kumagawa without fear of hurting anyone because he can nullify them. For such a Minus, his powers don't really make other Minus worse or amplify them. |
2010-12-27, 11:31 | Link #3084 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
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Well, I haven't really seen other minuses building up on each other either, so minuses having the ability to increase other's minus hasn't yet been shown to be a factor. Kumagawa's position as leader seems to be down more to his charisma; his h4x/virtual invincibility perhaps playing the key role in allowing the minus to interact without destroying each other. For precisely that reason, Kumagawa's motivations/intentions become the most important ones, regardless of constructive possibilities which might exist for the other minus. And we've seen/been told what those motivations are, so as the situation stands, until Kumagawa is defeated by Medaka, he will certainly irrevocably remain the villain.
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2010-12-27, 11:59 | Link #3085 |
The Shermain
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NY
Age: 45
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First,
Thank you, Sol Falling, for verbally attacking and flaming me and proving what I said about people not being able to accept others views and opinions. :salute: On another note, I never said Kumagawa was a good guy and inexplicitly states I don't like his view of the world. Everything I presented about him being a possible hero is theory, which is what discussion forums are about, right? You know, presenting new and unique insights into what could happen. Oh right, they're for ganging up on people who don't follow the crowd. Which brings me to what Doc Astaroth said. I'm very much someone in the second camp. I believe that people should be allowed to think for themselves with being forced to live a certain way. Medaka is nowhere near as bad as someone like King, obviously, but in her own words she's a tyrant. It's not like I'm pulling this out of nowhere, as there are examples-- 1) the delinquents in the first chapter. They weren't harming anyone, just chilling out having a smoke. So what does Medaka do? Steals all their cigarettes and basically kicks them out. It's their life, they have a right to live it how they want as long as they aren't hurting anyone. 2) The swim team arc. She didn't like the way the swim team risked their lives to win and said that she'd force then to change. They weren't really unhappy in any way, they were just willing to risk everything to win. As soon as thy stopped and did what she wanted, she eas all for them. If she's going to force them to change because they shouldn't be risking their lives for money, then she'll need to outlaw NASCAR and Motocross racing as well, considering the how risky those professions are. Again, it's their life and they weren't hurting anyone else-- they were just willing to risk more to win. It's that kind of attitude that I don't like, no matter what the intentions are. If I was a D&D character, I'd be neutral good-- I believe some laws are necessary to protect people, but there's plenty that are pure garbage that are designed to "protect people from themselves". It's their lives. People have also drawn parallels between Medaka and Jesus. It really does remind me of Catholism in a way. There's plenty of people out there who worship, but live their own lives. Others, however, are nothing more than sheep who follow blindly, even if it means stepping on others in the process. Heck, jus look at the Christian god. He didn't want people to have a free will in the first place, so he banishes then from paradise when they get it. After Jesus sacrifices himself, he goes "Ok, you can have free will, but if you don't worship me, I'll send you to an eternity of torture." That kind of thinking doesn't fly with me, no matter how much paradise is offered. I like thinking for myself, thank you. Who knows... Maybe Nishio is trying to do a satire of Christianity, with Medaka as Jesus, the abnormals who follow her as disciples and Ajimi (Ajimu?) as the god figure and Kumagawa as Satan. Maybe Zen will be Judas. Anyway, I'll take my lower brain function and get back to work.
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2010-12-27, 17:19 | Link #3087 | |
The Mage of Four Hearts
Author
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 34
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2010-12-27, 17:45 | Link #3088 |
The Shermain
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NY
Age: 45
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They weren't playing Russian roulette with their lives. Yeah, they were doing something risky, but as I said, that happens every day with a lot of different things people do. Bungee jumping, sky diving, etc. If someone keeled over, yes, I would help them. But the swim team didn't. They were highly trained and taking the risks on their own. It's not mine or anyone else's place to tell them how they should live. As for the delinquents, yeah, they probably shouldn't be smoking on school grounds, but if I remember correctly (not sure if I do, as I haven't read it in a while) Medaka also takes the cigarettes because "they're harmful to their health". Again, it's their decision. Not saying it's a good one, but it's theirs to make. As for the Kendo hall thing, I think it wasn't even being used at the time and they were Kendo club members, just delinquent ones.
And my understanding of Christianity, from those in my family that I've dealt with, basically says "God kicked us out of Eden because we disobeyed him and gained knowledge from eating the apple (basically, he wanted us to stay ignorant and submissive). Then, because of something the first humans did, all people born now come tainted with original sin and be baptized or go to Hell (or Purgatory). Oh, and you have to worship him if you want to go heaven, otherwise you go to Hell." Of course, I don't believe any this as I pretty much see religion as an institution designed to control people (do as we want you to or burn for eternity). Plus, I supposed a Jehovah's Witness is probably not the best source. But, I'm not here to start a religious debate. I'm just providing reasons for why I don't like some things about the manga. If you like it and love Medaka, that's fine. Different people have different tastes. Oh, and if you read through my post, I said people should be allowed to live how they want as long as they don't hurt other people. Taking something without paying would be stealing and is definitely under the harmful category. That being said, I am looking forward to the Hitomi fight. I want to know why she didn't freak out when her son was declared dead. She should have been right up there with Medaka hysteria-wise. I just wish Nishio would turn down the action a little bit and focus more on the story. Feels like almost non-stop action since the flask plan started and I prefer my action with a bit more story (more like Naruto, less like Bleach). As for the spoiler: Spoiler:
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2010-12-27, 18:11 | Link #3089 |
The Mage of Four Hearts
Author
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 34
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She didn't force them to do anything. They are perfectly free to do whatever, she just pointed out the stupidity of it. And the Kendo club got dissolved, they were just delinquents.
In the case of Adam and Eve, they got kicked out because they ate God's fruit, a.k.a. stealing. As for heaven, you can do whatever you please, God isn't forcing anyone to do anything, such as with Satan, etc, you can just go to hell later.
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2010-12-27, 19:44 | Link #3090 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
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In Naze's arc just now, Medaka 'forced' her to not give up and find a ridiculous shounen-heroine powerup in the midst of a miserable and hopelessly lost battle, by unreasonably believing in and counting on her. Oh yeah, so tyrannical right? It was Naze's own life really, Medaka should have just let her live it. Quote:
Or no? Letting students risk their lives on school property for the sake of petty club funds is actually the proper path for a freedom-respecting Student Council President? People should be free to harm themselves whenever they want, wherever they want, so long as they don't harm other people, is that right? Damn, educational institutions world-wide should totally start taking after this example right now, we've been totally misguided this whole time, ohnoes! .../sarcasm :P |
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2010-12-28, 04:55 | Link #3092 | |
The Shermain
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NY
Age: 45
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Not liking Medaka right now has nothing to do with the other characters, like Unzen and King. I just don't like her or her personality, whether she's the good guy or not. It's just not the type of character I like. I do like Zen, Kimaijima and many of the other characters. However, I do wish they had some better character development than a couple pages of flashback, a fight and then get tossed away like many of the characters have been. I like Nishio's other works, but I don't like the way he just introduces characters to get rid of them. I like things more focused. Anyway, I'd rather get back to doing what the forums are intended for-- discussing the manga. If you guys love it, that's great. All the power to you. But please, just because someone doesn't agree with your points of view on things, don't bash them. I've never done it to you. So... Anyone have any theories on what's up with Hitomi? You think she knows more about Ajimi than she let's on? Or is she hiding something about Zenkichi, considering how calm she was when he died? And I thought minuses were minuses because the powers they have contribute nothing to society? I can understand Deadscar, because that really doesn't do much. But Emukae's ability to create instant fertilizer would make farmers around the world happy... Though, I don't know how that relates to her ability to control plants.
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Last edited by KLGChaos; 2010-12-28 at 06:24. |
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2010-12-28, 05:13 | Link #3093 |
Lets be reality
Join Date: May 2007
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I'm just saying man, stop saying this is going to be your last post (for whatever reason) and than come straight back in, it's not a good look man. If you don't want to post in this thread again than do just that, no need to announce it.
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2010-12-28, 13:35 | Link #3094 |
Know who you are
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Resides within the depths of Ned infested Glasgow
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lol wtf?!
first a giant freezer room that is as cold as the poles and then a botanical garden thats got thousands of species of plant life and considered a national treasure!? oh man I love how this series doesn't let with the absurdness and cause of that you just gotta love it! Well all I can say for now is I love Naze-chan and Medaka face planting Kumagawa
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2010-12-29, 15:20 | Link #3096 | |
Final Elysium
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Wow, this thread sure erupted. I'm glad I didn't have to be on the front lines for this one.
Spoiler for 81:
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Since Emukae can't really turn off her Minus like Shibuki can, she probably can't just leave it at growing flowers and trees. Nothing Kumagawa suggests would be a "Plus" as we know.
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action, comedy, harem, nishio, romance, shounen, student council |
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