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View Poll Results: To Aru Majutsu no Index II - Episode 12 Rating
Perfect 10 25 35.21%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 19 26.76%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 14 19.72%
7 out of 10 : Good 7 9.86%
6 out of 10 : Average 4 5.63%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 1.41%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 1.41%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 71. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2010-12-28, 05:40   Link #61
Primary Consult
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outerelf View Post
Well... I finally managed to watch the episode (siblings hanging around wanting to watch other shows and no headphones that work well)

I have to say:

Orsola, how on earth did you get the wrong number? What kind of insane number dialing method do you use to get not Stiyl, but Tsuchimikado, whose phone has an entirely different area code from the one Stiyl ought to be using?
Orsola could have simply looked at a chart of name/number crosseyed and mixed them up, or selected the wrong name from an address book...
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Old 2010-12-28, 05:45   Link #62
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Originally Posted by Primary Consult View Post
Orsola could have simply looked at a chart of name/number crosseyed and mixed them up, or selected the wrong name from an address book...
Now that I think about it, she has only been in contact with Stiyl otherwise she would have sent the email about her findings to Tsuchimikado as well rather than having Touma pass it to him.

So if that's the case, does that mean she doesn't even have Tsuchimikado's number at all ?!
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Old 2010-12-28, 05:50   Link #63
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I can just think that it's Orsola's airheadedness in effect at that time.
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Old 2010-12-28, 08:11   Link #64
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Now that I think about it, she has only been in contact with Stiyl otherwise she would have sent the email about her findings to Tsuchimikado as well rather than having Touma pass it to him.

So if that's the case, does that mean she doesn't even have Tsuchimikado's number at all ?!
I wonder who will like to spend their time talking with a guy suspicios to love her sister.
The better options left are Stiyl and TouMAN.
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Old 2010-12-28, 08:25   Link #65
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I wonder who will like to spend their time talking with a guy suspicios to love her sister.
The better options left are Stiyl and TouMAN.
well aogami is worst, and also touma is pretty much a closet-pervert.
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Old 2010-12-28, 11:08   Link #66
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Face it, almost everyone in this show is weird. (To varying degrees, of course, but you know something is wrong when you have a teacher that looks like a kindergarten student)

And that's why we love this show.
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Old 2010-12-28, 19:15   Link #67
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Other... Shows...?
...What? Something I say wrong? My little brother just got three or four season box set of Stargate Atlantis I believe. Then my mom got CSI, and I am drowned out between the explosions with no safe place to hide but the bathroom. And family members get pissed if someone is in for more then an hour (we're a family of bathroom readers so we understand the urge to sit and read)

Well, thank you everyone for your suggestions.

It's just Orsola magic I suppose.
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Old 2010-12-28, 23:33   Link #68
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Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Sheesh... Himeji... Have you read your History books?
Certainly I have. Have you?
I happen to study history at university, so I know very well about the Christian Church's many atrocious crimes not only against all non-Christians (crusades and what-not), but also against other Christians, along with severe infighting between the Christian factions, leading to an ever worse terror rule of the Christian church, the Roman Catholics being the worst there, which had its climax of savagery in the Inquisition. Thousands of women were burnt alive at the stake for knowledge about healing plants, or for doing such unholy things as daring to learn read and write. Science and research was greatly hampered by the church. To take the most notable example, take the exclamation "Eppur si muove!":

"Eppur si muove" is an Italian phrase meaning And yet it moves purportedly uttered by the Italian mathematician, physicist and philosopher Galileo Galilei after being forced to recant in 1633, before the Inquisition, his belief that the Earth moves around the Sun.

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Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
In short words, the religion was used as the medium within the story and when time to blame comes the religion ends as the culprit.
You certainly can't generalise that for all religions. For Christianity however, it is true most times.

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Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
What about their leaders and politics?
It's obvious that those feudal lords and the traders disguised as spiritual leaders were behind it.
More often than not, the local rulers were only pawns by the Christian church to further their own ends and increase their power and influence.
A few tried to decrease the influence of the power-hungry church, like Henry II of England, who released a set of sixteen constitutions on 30 January 1164 aimed at reducing the church's strangle hold, but they never got very far there.
Wars in the Dark Age, again more often than not, had religious backgrounds, where the Pope or other local religious leaders (e.g. Bishops) gave all soldiers participating an "Ego te absolvo", an advance absolution so they could happily slaughter anyone that crossed their way, even though that's actually forbidden by the Ten Commandments.
The church's power and influence only notably started to wane with the French Revolution (1789–1799).

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Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Didn't you guessed why the christianism was only one in the begin and later became separated into several factions later?
I don't need to guess there because I know why the Christian church split up into several factions. The first split was the Great Schism in 1054, which split the church in the Roman Catholic church in the west and the Eastern Orthodox church in the east. One main point of contention was that the east didn't want to accept the Pope's demand for his universal jurisdiction. Too much greed for power from the side of the pope was the main cause for this first great schism.

Later, the Roman Catholic's greed for power and money had grown that excessively that people were ever less willing to put up with it. There was e.g. a fast flourishing trade with letters of indulgence, where you could buy absolution from whatever sins you had done.
On the boiling point of this development, Luther stepped forward. In 1517, he openly protested against the indulgence sales of the Friar monk Johann Tetzel. Luther then composed his Ninety-Five Theses, outlining the wrongdoings of the Roman Catholics, which he openly nailed at the door of the Castle Church of Wittenburg in Germany.
As this started to gain momentum, Pope Leo X issued a rebuttal in 1520 in his Exsurge Domine. As Luther still refused to retract this blasphemy, he was excommunicated by the Pope in 1521. Neither had the effect desired by the Pope though, and the Protestant movement couldn't be stopped anymore, even though the Roman Catholic church tried to stomp it in the ground violently whenever and wherever they could.

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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Oriana's motives are... Well... It's actually an age old problem.

Spoiler:
The Roman Catholic Chruch and "least bloody way"?

Tell your "least bloody way" to the countless victims who were slaughtered in the crusades and all the religious wars, fought with advance absolution by the pope, and the hundres of thousands of innocent people who were burnt alive at the stake for saying something the church didn't like.

So if history has shown one thing, then it's certainly that the Roman Catholic's way to deal with people they don't like (especially non-Christians and other Christian factions) is the *most* bloody way.

And no, the Roman Catholic church is no bit better in the To aru-verse. This was clearly shown in the first arc with the fanaticism of the Catholic nuns, who didn't hesitate a single second to punch out their ear drums, greatly maiming themselves by that, just so they wouldn't be affected by Index' Shoal Fear anymore and could fight on.

So also here it is clear that if the Roman Catholic church should come to power (e.g. by successfully erecting the Croce di Pietro), then it will definitely be anything but the "least bloody way", most likely the very opposite.
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Old 2010-12-28, 23:58   Link #69
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Face it, almost everyone in this show is weird. (To varying degrees, of course, but you know something is wrong when you have a teacher that looks like a kindergarten student)

And that's why we love this show.
The very fact that the whole premise of the show itself is strange, and I guess we all like it that way.
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Old 2010-12-29, 00:24   Link #70
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The Roman Catholic Chruch and "least bloody way"?

Tell your "least bloody way" to the countless victims who were slaughtered in the crusades and all the religious wars, fought with advance absolution by the pope, and the hundres of thousands of innocent people who were burnt alive at the stake for saying something the church didn't like.

So if history has shown one thing, then it's certainly that the Roman Catholic's way to deal with people they don't like (especially non-Christians and other Christian factions) is the *most* bloody way.

And no, the Roman Catholic church is no bit better in the To aru-verse. This was clearly shown in the first arc with the fanaticism of the Catholic nuns, who didn't hesitate a single second to punch out their ear drums, greatly maiming themselves by that, just so they wouldn't be affected by Index' Shoal Fear anymore and could fight on.

So also here it is clear that if the Roman Catholic church should come to power (e.g. by successfully erecting the Croce di Pietro), then it will definitely be anything but the "least bloody way", most likely the very opposite.

Woah woah woah slow down there, I think you're getting the wrong idea here. Let me explain, the moment the Cross get activated, whatever happens in it would benefit the Church right? If that's the case, then there's no reason to attack the City anymore is there. It's like a gold mine- You don't destroy it, you get it increase your wealth or power or whatever.
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Old 2010-12-29, 11:49   Link #71
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yeah the cross is supposed to turn everyone into a catholic in academy city.
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Old 2010-12-29, 15:03   Link #72
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No, not catholic. It's supposed to turn everything that's happening in the spot where the St. Peter's Cross been erected be a territory of Roman Catholics. And anything that happens their would be always beneficial to Roman Catholics. It doesn't mean they they would be a roman catholic because the roman catholic doesn't care about that. They just want to take down the leading organization in the science side.

And what's the best way to do this is. Is turning your enemy into your own slaves.
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Old 2010-12-29, 15:40   Link #73
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And anything that happens their would be always beneficial to Roman Catholics.
Benefical to Roman Catholics, but not to anyone else. If you don't want to be converted to their lunatic faith, then you would have a problem

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It doesn't mean they they would be a roman catholic because the roman catholic doesn't care about that.
Suuure... because the Roman Catholics never cared about anyone who didn't want to be a Roman Catholic throughout history, right?

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They just want to take down the leading organization in the science side.
And what's the best way to do this is. Is turning your enemy into your own slaves.
That's precisely what they want to do, taking down the science side, and they don't care in the least about whatever means they have to use in order to achieve that.
Turning them into slaves would certainly be benefical for the Roman Catholics, but quite obviously not benefical at all for the slaves themselves.
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Old 2010-12-29, 17:06   Link #74
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I happen to study history at university, so I know very well about the Christian Church's ..... the very opposite.
Nationalsozialistische National Socialism dude, remember them?

Any faction/group/corporation who holds the power doesn't want to lose their power and privileges, who in this world would want that?
The only and best option left is to protect it by any means on their disposition.

The power corrupted, corrupts and always will corrupt under different faces across the story until its very end.

There is no doubt in that. Btw, several websites says the most hated country in the world is US, mind why.

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Originally Posted by Himeji View Post
The church's power and influence only notably started to wane with the French Revolution (1789–1799).
And then the concept of the utopy caled "democracy" spread over the world, those with power now has a different face after discarding the old one, there is no coincidence.

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Benefical to Roman Catholics, but not to anyone else. If you don't want to be converted to their lunatic faith, then you would have a problem
If they become part of the RC they won't be seen as enemies anymore. Lunatic faith applies for both sides one side on their believes and the other on their cinic pragmatism.

Quote:
Turning them into slaves would certainly be benefical for the Roman Catholics, but quite obviously not benefical at all for the slaves themselves.
Rather than slaves they would become inconditional lackeys, they can be used and they won't feel they're being used or abused.
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Old 2010-12-29, 19:13   Link #75
Marcus H.
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Face it guys, I think how exactly Croce di Pietro works will not be completely explained.
What is said about how it works is so ambiguous that it can be anything from subtle mind control to forceful conversion into Roman Catholicism.
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Old 2010-12-29, 21:59   Link #76
Himeji
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Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Nationalsozialistische National Socialism dude, remember them?
Spoiler for German dictator of World war II:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Any faction/group/corporation who holds the power doesn't want to lose their power and privileges, who in this world would want that?
The only and best option left is to protect it by any means on their disposition.

The power corrupted, corrupts and always will corrupt under different faces across the story until its very end.

There is no doubt in that. Btw, several websites says the most hated country in the world is US, mind why.
Yes, I can really see why they would say that. One of the main reasons certainly is the rampant Christian fanaticism in the US. There's an insane amount of tele-evangelists and other freaks like that.
Other reasons are the overbordering warmongering of the US, resulting in a series of completely pointless war fought for no good reason (Korea War, Vietnam War, Gulf War, Iraq War...) and the often excessive nationalism that many US-Americans often show, and many more still (pitiful education system, powermongering US corporations, Bush etc.)

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Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
And then the concept of the utopy caled "democracy" spread over the world, those with power now has a different face after discarding the old one, there is no coincidence.
Democracy in the US is only a bad sham (e.g. Bush stopping the recount of votes back them so no one notices he didn't actually win, ludricrous "winner takes all" system which makes it impossible for any other parties besides the big two to ever get anywhere etc.)
Democracy in other countries works better, but they also have their problems. The system certainly isn't perfect, but it's still better than a dictatorship.

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Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
If they become part of the RC they won't be seen as enemies anymore.
"Becoming part" meaning "converting" to become Roman Catholics. Those who refuse to convert *will* be enemies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Lunatic faith applies for both sides one side on their believes and the other on their cinic pragmatism.
Certainly not. A large amount of the scientists are agnostics and atheists, who don't have any faith at all. This is especially true for Japan which is relatively spoken, a very unreligious country.

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Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Rather than slaves they would become inconditional lackeys, they can be used and they won't feel they're being used or abused.
Usingan euphemism like "unconditional lackeys" instead of "slaves" doesn't change anything. Regardless if the feel that they're being used and abused or not, it's still slavery.
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Old 2010-12-29, 22:26   Link #77
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Originally Posted by Himeji
Certainly not. A large amount of the scientists are agnostics and atheists, who don't have any faith at all. This is especially true for Japan which is relatively spoken, a very unreligious country.
Faith not only applies to religion there a lot of people dying on their believes, being atheists doesn't means they will lack faith.
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Old 2010-12-29, 23:57   Link #78
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I think you guys are trying to analyze something that isn't there with Oriana statement of make everyone happy. Croci de Pietro is magic. You could argue that it doesn't actually make everyone happy, because of personal bias or propaganda, but there's no real way to prove that they are all lying. Tsuchimikado doesn't have much of a reason to make it's effects seem nicer than it is, since he is supposed to be fighting against it.

Basically : It's magic!
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Old 2010-12-30, 01:33   Link #79
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I think you've got the best explanation yet! Magic always works!
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Old 2010-12-30, 01:36   Link #80
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I think you guys are trying to analyze something that isn't there with Oriana statement of make everyone happy. Croci de Pietro is magic. You could argue that it doesn't actually make everyone happy, because of personal bias or propaganda, but there's no real way to prove that they are all lying. Tsuchimikado doesn't have much of a reason to make it's effects seem nicer than it is, since he is supposed to be fighting against it.

Basically : It's magic!
Quote:
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I think you've got the best explanation yet! Magic always works!

If we simply wanted to turn our brains off like that we wouldn't be watching this kind of series now would we?
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