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View Poll Results: The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya - Rating
Perfect 10 231 64.35%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 92 25.63%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 25 6.96%
7 out of 10 : Good 7 1.95%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 0.84%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.28%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 359. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2010-12-31, 10:22   Link #541
Clarste
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Time is a piece of string. It's linear. Time travel is the ability to take threads from the string and bend them backwards and tape them to another part of the string. It is not a logical paradox for something in the future to affect the past. That's just the 4D shape of the world. Ontologically you can ask where the origin of the action is, and there is no answer, but purely mechanically it is consistent.
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Old 2010-12-31, 10:57   Link #542
Sackett
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The theory of time travel in the Haruhi universe is pretty clear.

The idea is that if you already know the future, then you must act in the past so as to bring about the future, because time is no longer linear for you. But if you don't know the future, then time is linear, because you can only observe the present. It's an application of the Heisenberg Uncertainty principle. The act of observation causes a reality to become true. If it is not observed, then there are multiple contradictory realities in simultaneous existence. (It is likely that the Haruhi theory of spacetime is based primarily on the double slit experiment. Similar to this.) Basically, until it is observed which slit the proton passes through, the proton passes through both slits.

This is why Mikuru, an ignorant child who's brain has been swiss cheesed, is the time traveler representative. Her ignorance allows her some leeway in action. As opposed to Mikuru big, who is bound by her previous actions. It also explains why Mikuru big is Mikuru little's handler. Mikuru big must therefor act in a way so as to ensure her own future existence, thereby preventing a paradox: where Mikuru little acts in a way that precludes her own future existence. Furthermore it explains why Kyon is occasionally recruited to act in the past. Kyon, being from the present, lacks future knowledge, and so therefor Kyon can change the past (past for the time travelers that is, the present for Kyon), because for Kyon it's the present. However, when Kyon time travels to the past, he is no longer in Kyon-present time, and so he can no longer change facts about the past that he has already observed in the future (the future being Kyon-present time).

So rather then Kyon being unable to do anything in Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody he actually had to encourage Haruhi to go to North High. He had no choice because he had already done it.

This is because Kyon was from the future, and he already knew that Haruhi would go to North High. So he was bound to act in a manner that would cause Haruhi to go to North High. Similarly it wasn't until he learned that Haruhi had seen John Smith twice that he acted to ensure this happened as Haruhi remembered. An interesting question would be if the knowledge that Haruhi has seen John Smith only twice prevents him from ever appearing again before Haruhi in his John Smith persona in the past. Or does the fact that the Haruhi who told him this no longer exist mean that he isn't bound by her observation?

Similarly, since Kyon observed himself saving himself, that means that he observed it and so it has already happened in the past for Kyon-present. So Kyon-future must go to the past because he has already been observed in the past (past for Kyon-future that is) to do this. So it is already set. If Kyon-future doesn't go into the past to save his present self, then it will create a paradox that probably destroys space time in some end of the world fashion.

The paradox is not in the act of Kyon-future acting in a way in the past to save Kyon-present, thus ensuring Kyon-future exists. That is a stable time loop. Rather it means that there is a risk of paradox, because if Kyon-future never goes back in time to save himself then Kyon-future can not exist and the observation made by Kyon-present in the past becomes false. Yet that already happened. Which probably means that Kyon-present (and everything that he has ever observed since that point in time) becomes non-existent.


As for my comment on Kyon being self-existent, it was a facetious remark intended to be funny, while also poking at the theory that Kyon is the "god" instead of Haruhi. I was not being serious. I completely understand the difference between God and Kyon.

For one thing, God observes all things, which is why the universe exists as an objective reality instead of multiple subjective possibilities. (It even says so in Genesis).
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Old 2010-12-31, 12:03   Link #543
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Okay, now that the time travel question has been answered again(!), let's return to discussion of the movie itself.

Any more off-topic discussion should be directed to one of the following threads:

The General Discussion of Haruhi Suzumiya
The Ontology of Haruhi Suzumiya
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Old 2010-12-31, 12:12   Link #544
Gamer_2k4
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My response to Clarste's and Sackett's posts is here:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...06#post3416406
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Old 2010-12-31, 12:20   Link #545
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by The_Seth View Post
Very interesting views there Vallen Chaos Valiant, to think that you are moving on a timeplane that has been estabilished until the end of time which would allow for fluent movement back and forth in time is somewhat daunting.

In fact apon further reflection of this anime, that may very well be the theory they used, and it certainly makes understanding time travel much easier not to mention it makes understanding this anime much easier.

Everything you think, say, and do is determined before you are even born. And even if you travel through time, no matter what you do, it was already taken into account in the future.

Ofcourse because this theory is very depressing when put into our reality i choose reject it, i prefer to travel back in time to the known, and travel forward in time into the completely unknown.

the seth.
It's only depressing if you somehow think you can make more than one choice.

What did you have breakfast today? Now, could you have ate some other breakfast? Yes, you could, but you didn't because the breakfast you ate was the choice you made.
You see, just because you are given a choice doesn't mean you can pick any choice. Instead, the choice you pick had to have been what YOU want. And what "you" want is not flexible. You make decisions every day, using what you know and what you want to happen to decide. And that's why future can be fixed.

Using myself as an example, I am not a vegetarian. Could I BE a Vegetarian if I wanted to? Sure. But I don't want to. And thus even though I have free choice, my decision is fixed until further notice. The same way that nothing physically stops me from picking up a kitchen knife and go on a killing spree right now. I don't want to be a mass murderer. So if someone from the future told me I could never have the freedom to become a mass murderer, so what? Why would I want freedom to do something I don't want to do?

If none of our predictions are predictable, that means none of us have personalities, likes, dislikes, opinions. To have an unpredictable future doesn't mean you are free to be whatever; you are only free to be whatever YOU want, and that's a very small sets of actions.
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Old 2011-01-01, 03:49   Link #546
Sparvid
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Whoa, Asakura's reappearance at the end really came out of the left field for me. I was just sitting there, going "What the hell just happened?!". Especially since my first reaction to her was "See, she's not a psycopathic knifenut all the time"...

Very fun to see alt!Haruhi turn into regular Haruhi just like that, and how protective alt!Tsuruya was of Mikuru.
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Old 2011-01-01, 03:59   Link #547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparvid View Post
Whoa, Asakura's reappearance at the end really came out of the left field for me. I was just sitting there, going "What the hell just happened?!". Especially since my first reaction to her was "See, she's not a psycopathic knifenut all the time"...
Just when you thought Asakura was not a psychopath knifecutter... They catch you surprisingly with that certain scene, and they even added the twisted, yet thrilling music with her expression.
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Old 2011-01-01, 11:07   Link #548
Sackett
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrowKenobi View Post
Okay, now that the time travel question has been answered again(!), let's return to discussion of the movie itself.

Any more off-topic discussion should be directed to one of the following threads:

The General Discussion of Haruhi Suzumiya
The Ontology of Haruhi Suzumiya
Oh come on.

Time travel is a huge part of this movie's plot.

In fact it is the plot. And in the movie Kyon himself spends some time thinking about these implications.

So how is it off topic?

This is the intended plot topic of conversation. The creator expects us to talk about this stuff after watching the movie.

Excluding it from the conversation is like telling someone not to talk about the elephant in the living room.

Sure there are other topics too, like Asakura's amazing satiation of her blood lust. Is she the best villain in the Haruhi universe or what?

Or the character development of Yuki Nagato. What does it reveal about her that she choose to change the world so that she would be weak and in need of protection?

What about the fact that she preserved her memory of Kyon getting her a library card? That must be a very important memory for her.

But just because you find these kinds of topics more interesting doesn't mean that time travel discussions are off topic.
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Old 2011-01-01, 12:43   Link #549
juventas
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Although I think Haruhi is an interesting character, I never really found her attractive. But I think caterpillar Haruhi has won me over. Cutest thing about her is that even while asleep she has that entitled frowning look.
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Old 2011-01-01, 14:17   Link #550
Haru~
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I watched. I became a fan. I watched again (Season 2). I ranted. I hate. I watched (The Movie). I became a fan again. And not just a fan. A loyal fan NOW.
Yes. This is my statement. That I will not falter as a fan of this franchise. This movie just changed my view to Suzumiya Haruhi series. I actually think this movie captures all of the aspect of the realism in the series, for me (Ironically).

Animation Quality: Impressive. No. Not that just impressive. It's an understatement actually. I haven't watched this kind of quality in animation in my whole life (Lies?~). Kyoto Animation. Kudos to them. I'm actually became a lost fan after they did the Endless Shit and [I]K-on[/I. ]No offense to K-on fans but I'm not really fond of it and I actually think Kyoani is better in making something like this than adapting 4-koma Moe characters. This is just an example of what they are capable of. And adapting serious story makes them the best. (remember Clannad After Story Episode 18~). Again, my opinion so don't flame me K-on fans. Rating: 10/10

Plot: I have read the Novel a long time ago (and forgot some details) and was spoiled of what happens. But. The plot itself made me watch it in the first place. Beautiful scenes. And beautiful storytelling. A perfect execution of storytelling. As a fan of it, I'm actually stunned and amazed how the story progresses even with knowing some of the details. The story is just that amazing. Rating: 10/10

Soundtrack: This what amazes me the most. This brings out more of the seriousness in the Suzumiya series. This what lacked in the Season 1 when they talked about serious things. This made the movie a story with a serious plot. The quiet parts made the scenes darker.
Spoiler for For caution:
And it was amazing. Rating: 10/10

Characters:
Kyon ▬ What can I say. The protagonist. The point-of-view of our story. He had a major rollercoaster ride in this one. And had a major confrontation of his own self. And finally, finally appreciating his normal life.
Haruhi ▬ The story showed more of her Tsundereness and how important she is (Well duh, just watch Kyon's reaction in that emotional reunion scene). I'm not very fond of her in the last two seasons because of obvious bitchy attitude but her alternative self connect me and her somehow.. Her boring life and why she is bitchy like that. I like her now.
Mikuru ▬ The moe character. The mascot. But her role here is important. As her older self. And there's more of her secrets revealed. The fact that she is attracted to Kyon and the fact that she misses all her memories with him and the gang. And the meaning of her TPDD revealed.
Koizumi ▬ This movie made me feel a little better about him. Not only that his alternative self is attracted to Haruhi, but his original one, too. (Ok homo fans time to pack your things up.).
Yuki Nagato ▬ Just amazing. Absolutely adorable in her alternative self. But I felt more connected in her original emotionless one. The manifestations of her true feelings are very much presented. Her overflowing HNNNNNNGG in this movie is over 9000. And it is an understatement. This showed a lot of interesting things about her. How she is treated, how she is really a Sad Girl In Snow. As I watch her in the whole Suzumiya story, I feel more and more of her emotions. I don't think there is no fan in the series that will not want to hug Yuki in that last scene. Kyon don't just hold her hand. Hug her. Damn it.
Rating: over 9000

Overall: I enjoyed it a lot. And not just enjoyed, overwhelmed. I didn't think that this series will provide me this kind of seriousness. Watching this made me have a different look in story. How serious that the world is in Haruhi's hand, how serious Kyon's decisions are, how serious Koizumi's job really is, how serious Mikuru's time skills are, and how serious Yuki's emotions really are.
Rating: 10/10
Best movie of the year. This movie might revive the fandom of the franchise.
"The Disappearance of the Endless Ranting of Suzumiya Haruhi"
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Old 2011-01-01, 20:39   Link #551
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But just because you find these kinds of topics more interesting doesn't mean that time travel discussions are off topic.
I agree that the time travel discussions are not off topic (for this thread)... except for discussions of time travel that are not covered in the movie, i.e. why Kyon came back to rescue himself. Since that particular event is not mentioned in the movie, it is off topic for this thread (but not the other ones) since not everyone who has seen the movie has read the novels.

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Old 2011-01-02, 01:29   Link #552
RegalStar
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Well, I watched the movie before, but it was definitely worth re-watching. Aside from the fact that it's simply amazing, I started noticing things I wouldn't have noticed without reading the novels.

OK, I only noticed one thing. Anyone else noticed who was on top of Kyon's cellphone contact list? I wonder if it's a sign or just the devs... I mean kyoani thinks of everything.
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Old 2011-01-02, 20:11   Link #553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrowKenobi View Post
I agree that the time travel discussions are not off topic (for this thread)... except for discussions of time travel that are not covered in the movie, i.e. why Kyon came back to rescue himself. Since that particular event is not mentioned in the movie, it is off topic for this thread (but not the other ones) since not everyone who has seen the movie has read the novels.

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I thought people were just assuming that he went back based on what happens in the movie... but hey, that's just what I gathered from reading here and watching the movie myself.

I would even risk to say that there's no need to explain any further if Kyon went back in time to save himself cause it's implied by the movie that he eventually did, just not right away. It's actually easier to imply it in the movie than it would theoretically be in the novels since you can use the same voice actor when you would be forced to say it outright when using the written word (mind you I'm theorizing, not spoiling).

Now if you want to consider it a possible spoiler then I'll silently accept your decision and respect it but I won't agree (since that's my prerogative as a free human being ).
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Old 2011-01-02, 23:14   Link #554
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I have no problem with that as long as the discussion doesn't get into detail of why he went back, the motivations of those who went with him, and what happened after Kyon blacked out.
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Old 2011-01-03, 02:21   Link #555
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As everybody says that this is one of the "Sekai kei" = "the world series". (though I know that this sound funny lol...) There are the various views about the definition of sekai kei.
But basically, Sekai kei is a novel, manga or anime that has the story that argue that 'real whole world' and 'internal world' are equivalent for a human. In a word, this is a philosophy.
I agree that the science fiction elements are important piece of this series. But I think the philosophy IS the main plot of this series.
Therefore I think that those SF elements are just prepared for a philosophical storyline, in a sense.

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Old 2011-01-03, 12:44   Link #556
Mecha_Trueno
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Something just came to mind. Throughout the series (including the novels before and after vol. 4), you learn that a good rule of thumb is "don't believe every single thing Koizumi says," but since in the the altered world he doesn't belong to any organisation or anything, do you guys think we got a glimpse of the REAL him?
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Old 2011-01-03, 13:09   Link #557
s07195
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Originally Posted by RegalStar View Post
Well, I watched the movie before, but it was definitely worth re-watching. Aside from the fact that it's simply amazing, I started noticing things I wouldn't have noticed without reading the novels.

OK, I only noticed one thing. Anyone else noticed who was on top of Kyon's cellphone contact list? I wonder if it's a sign or just the devs... I mean kyoani thinks of everything.
Glad someone spotted that. Maybe a spoiler for future plotlines?
Then again, how common is the surname Sasaki anyways?
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Old 2011-01-03, 15:03   Link #558
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Originally Posted by s07195 View Post
Glad someone spotted that. Maybe a spoiler for future plotlines?
Then again, how common is the surname Sasaki anyways?
I was confused on what you two were talking about, then it hit me exactly where you were getting at, and honestly.. My first expression was

Sasaki is a very common Japanese family name ever since the 14th century. So being carried on like that, it is pretty common.
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Old 2011-01-04, 02:08   Link #559
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Well yes, but there is only one Sasaki family that we the audience know that Kyon has associated with, so it's either the one we know of or it's a red herring, given the Law of Conservation of Detail.
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Old 2011-01-04, 15:12   Link #560
Khu
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It's probably just me, but I found the opening to be...weirdly boring. I thought there'd be more in there, but it's probably because I've read the novels ^^;

And/or that was the decided effect they wanted for the opening, since the rest is kinda batshit crazy XD
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