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Old 2011-01-01, 07:56   Link #21021
witchfan
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I asked around, and it seems that, no, we don't get much new information about Shkanon, Yasu, or anything really.

The problem is, it's not like we didn't think. We thought for almost half a decade. There were several people here, a lot more intelligent and diligent than me, who carefully thought about this mystery for years. And by the end, us amateur detectives found many answers that were plausible, and yet not. So instead of rewarding our efforts and telling us, once and for all, the answer, he goes "the cake was a lie" and gives us an ambiguous "solution" in EP7.

It's not like a mystery novel is a "riddle"; something that has one definite solution. Yes, you can speculate, and in many cases even get very close to the author's answer, but in the end, unless the mystery is completely trivial, there are infinite possible solutions. This is true, no matter how intelligent you are. This is why we need, and trust the author of a mystery to, by the end of his story, tell us his truth.

In the end, what did we really learn about the truth of those days? It's an unsatisfying mystery, with unsatisfying culprits and a horrible, horrible motive, that received enough ornamentation to actually make it seem worthwhile. It's a pretty-looking cake made of horse dung, and we all got Battler'd.

And you know what? That's not all. It's not like this was his only way out. There were so many ways he could've written EP8 better. It makes almost anything we've learned in EPs 1-7 worthless (EP7 was the biggest troll by far).

But I digress. I haven't read the complete episode yet, and, should I find the willpower to do so, it might change my opinion depending on how well these things are portrayed. If it really is so dissatisfying, in the far future, I think I might just try writing my own "EP8".

Last edited by witchfan; 2011-01-03 at 09:15.
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Old 2011-01-01, 08:00   Link #21022
ndqanh_vn
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Quote:
I asked around, and it seems that, no, we don't get much new information about Shkanon, Yasu, or anything really.
You asked around, that mean you haven't read it. And people who read it is not sure how many endings are out there, so just calm down for now )

But I deeply believe that Umineko is going to be the most Broken Base of recent years.
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Old 2011-01-01, 08:02   Link #21023
witchfan
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I got the same answer from about 8 people who claim to have read it (I read the prologue and some more, too, and it went exactly according to the spoilers). Two of them even said they looked at the script. So while there's a chance I was trolled (it was /jp/, after all), I'm not quite certain. I really, really hope I was, though, and that I'm just overreacting.

Edit:
Spoiler for Trick ending:

Last edited by witchfan; 2011-01-01 at 08:17.
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Old 2011-01-01, 08:08   Link #21024
Cao Ni Ma
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Well said Witchfan, RK07 doesn't know what foreshadowing is. He makes tons of them but they act like back doors he could use to alter the story if he wants. By the end all of the herrings need to be explained, thats what makes them herrings instead of back doors. Its the trust you have with the author that you know that they will be locked and that only one possible truth will remain.

RK took the easy way out, he explained some of them, the ones he could. Then decided to tell you that all the doors are locked when you could still see a lot of them wide open. You could tell him that "hey some doors are still open" he'll just answer "No there aren't, in fact there weren't any doors to begin with"

e- I've looked at the code, I really cant see anything that points to an alternate ending right now. The most I can see is possibility of a patch that gives more quizzes to bring the number of coins up to the theoretical maximum written of 30 coins.
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Old 2011-01-01, 08:08   Link #21025
mizou
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What about the dead siesta?????
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Old 2011-01-01, 08:23   Link #21026
Cao Ni Ma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
I have to ask... is there a right answer to the cake choice? lol
No, just in case how many slices did it have? 15? For people that solved all the quizzes, what where the answers you gave. It feels like some of them could have 2 potential answers.
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Old 2011-01-01, 12:45   Link #21027
rogerpepitone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndqanh_vn View Post
I kind of agree with your opinion her. The story is more or less the journey of Ange herself to move on from the Rockenjima incidents...In that case the thesis of the story is pretty neat and well-done.

However, many of us...well...how should I say... didn't really care much about Ange.
Except that Ange was a minor part of the story. She's mentioned briefly in Ep. 1, and otherwise doesn't appear until Ep. 4. Cut her parts out of that, and I think the rest of the episode would flow just fine. Cut the 1986 parts out of Umineko, and what remains is pointless. So declaring Umineko to really be about Ange is completely false.

(Has <u>The Four False Weapons</u> by John Dickson Carr been translated into Japanese? If so, could somebody sent the quote I gave here to RK7?)
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Old 2011-01-01, 13:57   Link #21028
lambdabern
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Am i the only one who's a little dissapointed with both the endings?????
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Old 2011-01-01, 14:01   Link #21029
Used Can
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizou View Post
What about the dead siesta?????
She's one of the rabbit figurines Maria had which Rosa broke. We've known this since EP4. If you're talking about an appearance, as far as I know, she doesn't show up in EP8. She has her own TIPs, though.
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Old 2011-01-01, 14:09   Link #21030
RockReborn
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Wait a minute...

OBJECTION!!!

*slams hands on table before pointing at Ryukishi*

How can it be that Yasu wrote the message bottles if she wasn't part of the murder plot?! There was no time during the conference to write them, so she would have had to know about the plot beforehand, yet based on Battler's recollection of Rokkenjima Prime, she did not!!

Also, how could Battler get out-of-character info if he didn't even remember who he was?!
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Old 2011-01-01, 14:17   Link #21031
Sherringford
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Originally Posted by DaBackpack View Post
So, compared to the other ones, how is EP8? In terms of how awesome it is.

When do you think the translation will start? I'm just curious.
I just finished reading it. I don't know Japanese all that well, but I understood the general plot quite well. So as for how good it is...

Spoiler for Spoilers for how good it is:


Also I'd like to express my feelings of sympathy towards Witch Hunt. Episode 8 will be a pain to translate.
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Old 2011-01-01, 14:31   Link #21032
LROlsson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockReborn View Post
Wait a minute...

OBJECTION!!!

*slams hands on table before pointing at Ryukishi*

How can it be that Yasu wrote the message bottles if she wasn't part of the murder plot?! There was no time during the conference to write them, so she would have had to know about the plot beforehand, yet based on Battler's recollection of Rokkenjima Prime, she did not!!

Also, how could Battler get out-of-character info if he didn't even remember who he was?!
Yasu had a hobby to write mysteries. One day she just threw a couple of bottles in the ocean for fun.

Touya got a flash back of the rokkenjima incident when he asked Yashirou what she was reading at the net.
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Old 2011-01-01, 14:34   Link #21033
Sherringford
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Originally Posted by rogerpepitone View Post
Except that Ange was a minor part of the story. She's mentioned briefly in Ep. 1, and otherwise doesn't appear until Ep. 4. Cut her parts out of that, and I think the rest of the episode would flow just fine. Cut the 1986 parts out of Umineko, and what remains is pointless. So declaring Umineko to really be about Ange is completely false.

(Has <u>The Four False Weapons</u> by John Dickson Carr been translated into Japanese? If so, could somebody sent the quote I gave here to RK7?)
I was having some trouble finding the quote because of how animesuki's quoting system works, so here's a copy for people interested in it:

Quote:
"Suppose you are reading a detective story with an intriguing situation. A corpse (let us say) is found strangled, sitting in a chair by a window, and wearing a domino mask; and all the clocks in the house are found with their faces turned to the wall. You are carefully warned that the blazing clue to the truth is the fact that there is a teaspoon in the victim's pocket, and that, without all these things being just as they were, the crime could never have taken place. ... Now, suppose at the denoument the identity of the killer was revealed -- for the simple reason that his fingerprints matched those on the collar of the strangled man. Would you feel cheated? That's exactly what might happen in life; but would you feel cheated? You know damn well you would. ... He admits the crime. Then he shoots himself. Consequently, you never know the significance of the mask or the reversed clocks, or what deduction you should have drawn from the teaspoon. Page 315, 'The End'. What would you do? You would strangle the author, lynch the publisher, and shoot the bookseller.
Thank you rogerpepitone. I was looking for a quotation to express how I was feeling about Umineko as a whole, and thankfully Carr has the answers to everything.

I'm almost certain all Carr novels are available in Japanese, but I could be wrong. I feel tempted to send that quotation to Ryuukishi as well.
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Old 2011-01-01, 14:49   Link #21034
BoopDeWoop
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Hey guys...
Remember those official EP 8 screenshots? The ones that we found when the name for EP 8 was discovered? Yeah...

Spoiler for EP 8/Tsubasa Official Screenshots:


I heard these were supposed to be for Tsubasa...but that Zepar/Furfur one in the corner....
As you can see, there are choices.
But why in the world would there be choices in Tsubasa? That's right...because there aren't
And if this is in EP 8...why haven't I heard anything about this from people who have played EP 8?
I'd love to hear your thoughts on this
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Old 2011-01-01, 14:50   Link #21035
Westlo
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Originally Posted by lambdabern View Post
Am i the only one who's a little dissapointed with both the endings?????
To say you're the only one would be a vast understatement.
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Old 2011-01-01, 14:50   Link #21036
DaBackpack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherringford View Post
I just finished reading it. I don't know Japanese all that well, but I understood the general plot quite well. So as for how good it is...

Spoiler for Spoilers for how good it is:


Also I'd like to express my feelings of sympathy towards Witch Hunt. Episode 8 will be a pain to translate.
I think I know what you're talking about (accidental spoilers FTL) and I'm not quite sure how I feel about it. But hey, if Ryukishi pulls it off well, I might still enjoy it.

And I hear it will be... difficult... to translate, with all of the you-know-whats scattered within. But good luck, Witch-Hunt
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Old 2011-01-01, 15:33   Link #21037
Iromaru
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That ending isn't even that terrible by itself. It's actually pretty well executed and the very final scene is quite touching. If it was the end of one of the episodes it would be good. But as the final ending to the whole series it's terrible.

And what's pissing me off is how easy it could have been improved. Just a short scene at the very end hinting that maybe it's just one of possible ends, that kakeras may exist in Umineko too, that maybe all we saw really happened and there is a chance that good end exist somewhere in the sea of fragments.

But there supposedly is Rei on the way so who knows.
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Old 2011-01-01, 16:15   Link #21038
Glass Heart
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It's more and more confusing.

Well, I think I'll ask this straight: is it an Evangelion ending (intellectual and without any answers to the mysteries of the series) ?

Is there at least a few answers about who is the murderer and why he did all these murders (and maybe, maybe, about how he performed them) ?

I mean, I appreciate when there are different ways to understand a story but... Umineko was a detective novel to begin with, and now it seems that "no, it's not a detective novel in fact".
The main interest in the series was to understand how supernatural murders could have been performed by human means and therefore to understand who could have performed all of them.

Do you mean the ending has nothing to do with all that ?
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Old 2011-01-01, 16:21   Link #21039
witchfan
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It's a little of both. Technically, the biggest question got answered: we know the culprits, and why they did it (I have to say the reason is extremely unsatisfying, though). We don't learn anything about Shkanon (but it's briefly mentioned), Yasu's wound, or Yasu's motive, though. And the ending is basically crack, but, despite what some people think, it was one of the few things that were properly foreshadowed in this series.
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Old 2011-01-01, 16:23   Link #21040
Glass Heart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by witchfan View Post
It's a little of both. Technically, the biggest question got answered: we know the culprits, and why they did it (I have to say the reason is extremely unsatisfying, though). We don't learn anything about Shkanon, Yasu's wound, or Yasu's motive, though. And the ending is basically crack, but, despite what some people think, it was one of the few things that were properly foreshadowed in this series.
Ok, thanks !

And, if you're okay with it, could you tell me (in spoilers) who are the culprits and why they did it, please ?
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