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Old 2011-01-01, 08:54   Link #41
MeoTwister5
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It's almost like Ryukishi already KNEW people would be acting like this and purposely made chibi Ange act like a narrowminded observer to parody his own readership on a meta level. So while people criticize Ange and the episode they're also indirectly criticizing themselves on a metameta level. Ange is meant as the representation of a particular demographic as if Ryukishi almost perfectly understood some readers, their reactions and their conclusions perfectly like some metametameta existence.

Goddammit Ryukishi get out of my head arghh;wsldkqlkwdjqlkwjddifuoiwefd

Summary! This details the start of the turnover ceremony come halloween party up to Ange choosing a slice:

Spoiler for Summary:


I'll update the full summary at the blog later.

The 15 item quiz game is about to begin. I've decided to try and translate the game questions and answers including screenshots and whatnot. Give me a while to do them. If my OCR works and the Kanji isn't too hard for me to read it shouldn't take too long. I hope.
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Old 2011-01-01, 08:58   Link #42
witchfan
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Don't take other people's impressions so lightly. We often decide on whether to go watch a movie, or read a book, depending on reviews by people who already experienced the work. If these reviews did not provide ample data for us to form at least basic opinions about the work, nobody would bother reading them before deciding what to watch, or read. While our impressions are not as impartial as those of a person who's had firsthand access to the work, we can still complain something is "apparently not all we hoped it would be". We don't know how correct we are, sure, but we aren't being blindly trigger happy either.

But, I do understand what you're saying. Umineko is a work especially suspect to personal opinion (I believe the fanbase is one of the most broken I've seen). As such, while I already said what I think about the spoilers, I'll try not to jump into conclusions before I've read it. I do admit I was a little trigger happy (that doesn't mean I was wrong, though...).

And hey, if I was right, maybe he'll resolve this mess in a supposed Umineko Rei.

(By the way, I just watched the quiz part in a stream, you get a glimpse of Genji and Kinzo's past, so that's nice.)

Last edited by witchfan; 2011-01-01 at 09:16.
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Old 2011-01-01, 11:02   Link #43
MeoTwister5
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My apologies but I've decided to forgo translating the 15 questions. I can answer some of them just fine with my limited skills but it's too time consuming to translate all of them here. I can translate them enough for myself to answer some of them, but not accurately enough based on their original forms for others to read and comprehend on their own, especially the longer ones. A good lot of these involve vocabulary questions that require familiarity with the language to understand. The others are abstract/logic pattern recognition quizzes and the rest and analysis questions,which are easier to solve for me. I will proceed on the assumption that you guys can answer them with the right choices that were posted around here. Again, sorry.

Last edited by MeoTwister5; 2011-01-01 at 11:17.
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Old 2011-01-01, 11:44   Link #44
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Translation of most of the Prof. Layton questions can be found with a google search. (Edit: I think I found all of them, actually).

Witch Hunt is going to have a hell of a time translating these to make sense to someone who doesn't know a bit of moonspeak... if they even bother. I don't think I got any knowledge question right. Should find an answer sheet to check though.
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Old 2011-01-01, 11:52   Link #45
MeoTwister5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by witchfan View Post
Translation of most of the Prof. Layton questions can be found with a google search. (Edit: I think I found all of them, actually).

Witch Hunt is going to have a hell of a time translating these to make sense to someone who doesn't know a bit of moonspeak... if they even bother. I don't think I got any knowledge question right.
I couldn't even answer the hiragana questions, the Japanese trivia ones and the harder language ones. I managed to answer the first one regarding Christmas, the piano keys one and a few more. I screwed up the building question and the atomic numbers question. I can say that the difficult part in this is that, even in English, it STILL requires reader knowledge in Japanese vocabulary and grammar.
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Old 2011-01-01, 14:14   Link #46
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Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
It's almost like Ryukishi already KNEW people would be acting like this and purposely made chibi Ange act like a narrowminded observer to parody his own readership on a meta level. So while people criticize Ange and the episode they're also indirectly criticizing themselves on a metameta level. Ange is meant as the representation of a particular demographic as if Ryukishi almost perfectly understood some readers, their reactions and their conclusions perfectly like some metametameta existence.
I think most people believe that acknowledging that some will find your writing to be bad and preemptively attacking those people does not generally change the quality of your writing; it just makes you pretentious.
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Old 2011-01-01, 14:30   Link #47
MeoTwister5
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Final summaries before I sleep. This is the entirety of the quiz game sans the actual questions and solutions due to translating problems.

Spoiler for Summaries:


Yeah. Death flags everywhere. The entire bit is really touching personally and really capitalizes just how much Battler wants Ange to move on and live her life unbound to the past.

Blog page updated as well. More summaries tomorrow.
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Old 2011-01-01, 14:50   Link #48
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Some of the questions are pretty simple math/logic problems. Those should be easy enough to translate (though liberties may have to be taken with rewording the question itself). Some of them, though... yeesh. Best of luck on those.
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Old 2011-01-01, 15:22   Link #49
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I'm finally done with Episode 8.
I strongly recommend people not to look for spoilers at all, no matter how far they are already spoiled or not. Therefore, my reactions are potentially damaging as well, so by all means, please be prepared or scramble out of this thread on this very instant.


Anyway, I did make this warning because Episode 8 definitely was something "personal", to the point Ryukishi's goal and means looped like a donut, like the analogy he used before.
Episode 8 not being a textbook answer session is an understatement: there is basically nothing that explains what "truly happened" on the 4 and 5th october 1986. Actually, the whole thing was... perhaps "meaningless" (however, it is very likely I've missed various hints and details that are basically critical).
That being said, I believe the whole point was similar to how Minagoroshi and Matsuribayashi are drastically different between each other. For all it matters, Episode 7 was taking care of the Mystery (although I will agree that some "spoonfeeding" wouldn't be bad considering Umineko's mystery).

This will probably shock a lot of people, but I personally understand why Ryukishi took this path.
No Umineko Episode managed to stir so many different emotions from me than this one, and I was surprised more than once how too similar I was to chibi ange, and ange before her epiphany (those who follow my twitter's account can testify how my comments were jumping everywhere, nowhere close how I was with ep7).
I will give you that this doesn't excuse the potential "robbed solution" that people were expecting but... Episode 8 was sort of a journey about the truth. By itself, the actual truth wasn't the most important thing, but rather its meaning and also the "means" for it.

I do no want to make it anything sophisticated or childishily simple, but Twilight of the golden witch was enjoyable, because while the mystery was basically hammered to death in Requiem, Twilight managed something that I nearly didn't have for some episode: care for the characters.
I dunno about the fandom, but like I said, this episode definitely stirred a lot of things, and Ryukishi probably won his bet and savor his multiplied wage: that the outcome was sidetracked, but the struggle itself was the center of attention.
And believe me, you can criticize the lack of revelations for all I care, the ride was just a blast (so many awesome moments, like Will/Dlanor tag team, Erika/Ange tag team, Lambdadelta, even Bernkastel, etc).

I never thought I was going to use this quote especially my mindset when I started Twilight but... from Battler "is truth is really that important?".
Of course, I won't deny that I still have the burning desire to know at 100% what the bloody hell happened on Rokkenjima over these 7 games.

Was it mystery? Was it fantasy?
I honestly can't answer to that for the moment. However, all I can say: it was definitely a warm and ass kicking tale.

I realize this may sound like a fanboy forgiving every flaws, not bothering to check every nook and cranny. However, I trust people who know me that I certainly am not of a blind fool who would overlook flaws for no damn reason.
I certainly won't claim there isn't any, and Umineko no Naku Koro ni is definitely a debatable tale that will never have an absolute consensus... it would be a miracle, wouldn't it?

However, know this that... you definitely should check this Episode, just because how it is unfold.
That is all of the moment.

Last edited by Klashikari; 2011-01-01 at 15:32.
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Old 2011-01-01, 15:30   Link #50
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Well, it's not that I don't agree that a story must keep some mysteries but...

Does that mean the last chapter doesn't reveal who is the culprit and what his goal was but simply tells us that the truth is something more than what we call "reality" ?

I don't mind the spoilers for my part. I'm searching who is the culprit on the web and I find nothing (but if there's no definite culprit to begin with...).


I mean, in fact I was a little afraid that there were some crappy revelation like: "-The red always tells the truth. -The red truths are lies and this one also. Therefore, there is no real answer to this game."
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Old 2011-01-01, 15:37   Link #51
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I'm sure EP8 is a glorious fun read, but I wasn't wrong in saying that Ryukishi basically butchered the mystery. I think the "come up with your own answer" and "what's important is the journey" jazz would be fine for anything but a mystery novel... and then, I suppose we were wrong in thinking this is that kind of novel from the beginning (and I can't help but wonder why, of all things he could've revealed, he chose to reveal the poorest motive for a culprit(s) I've seen in years?). But yeah, as someone who hasn't finished reading yet, I'll save further whining for the Spoilers & Speculations thread (by the way, Sherringford posted a very relevant quote in it).

I will try and be optimistic about the supposed "Umineko Rei" that's going to come out. At the very least, I think he will reveal something about Shkanon in it.
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Old 2011-01-01, 15:38   Link #52
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Quote:
I never thought I was going to use this quote especially my mindset when I started Twilight but... from Battler "is truth is really that important?".
I'll answer this with 'yes. Yes it fucking is.'

Quote:
I realize this may sound like a fanboy forgiving every flaws, not bothering to check every nook and cranny.
Nah, I totally see where you are coming from. I loved the episode itself, and I think that if it was just another episode it would be ranking pretty high in my favorite episode list. Its main problem is that it had the heavy burden of "final episode" to carry.

Its ending(or lack of thereof) aside, it was a great episode.

It's kind of hard to explain how I felt about the episode. To me, it felt like a great episode, but a bad way to end the series. If Umineko had an episode 9 incoming, I would have loved this episode a lot more, if that makes sense.

The lack of a proper ending feels terrible to me.

"Is the truth really important?"

Let's face it. If you care about the mystery side of Umineko, the answer is of course it is. If you are a mystery fan at all, this ending will let you down.

It doesn't matter how much you like mysteries. You don't have to be a die hard Golden Age fan for this. If you like mysteries even a little, this will let you down.

If you aren't... .Then you'll probably enjoy it much more than I did.
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Old 2011-01-01, 15:39   Link #53
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just one more question is it 100% definite this is the final episode... can it be a troll on people assuming it would be 8 episodes just because Higurashi was?
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Old 2011-01-01, 15:42   Link #54
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just one more question is it 100% definite this is the final episode... can it be a troll on people assuming it would be 8 episodes just because Higurashi was?
It isn't impossible. But even Miracle Max would tell you that your chances are closer to being all dead rather than mostly dead.
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Old 2011-01-01, 15:43   Link #55
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That being said, it is extremely likely that there will be a fandisc similar to Rei. Thus, there is perhaps a sliver of hope for those who want the cat's box to be burst open.

What an irony, it is almost as if the fandom has taken the role of Bern, despite she isn't really popular among them.
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Old 2011-01-01, 15:46   Link #56
Renall
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How popular is Bern in Japan?
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Old 2011-01-01, 15:51   Link #57
witchfan
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Originally Posted by Klashikari
What an irony, it is almost as if the fandom has taken the role of Bern, despite she isn't really popular among them.
I wonder what Bern's role was in the story, myself. Was she the One Sane Woman in a world of make-believe dolts, or would she have taken the fantasy side if the truth was more benevolent? If Bern was simply a sadistic version of Battler, twisting the story so that she could enjoy it, this would be a very clever observation. Since it's exactly what every critical reader of a work would do, given the chance... and I suppose it's what we're trying to do.

(But, hey, allow me to state Bern, Beatrice and Kinzo are my favorite characters.)
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Old 2011-01-01, 15:53   Link #58
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That being said, it is extremely likely that there will be a fandisc similar to Rei. Thus, there is perhaps a sliver of hope for those who want the cat's box to be burst open.

What an irony, it is almost as if the fandom has taken the role of Bern, despite she isn't really popular among them.
Ryuukishi said he would want to go out to do research for his new series and Umineko rei, didn't he? So it's basically confirmed at this point. But I doubt it will really destroy the box.

...Though really I'm all for it.
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Old 2011-01-01, 15:54   Link #59
Renall
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I hope we get a joke theory arc or something out of Rei.
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Old 2011-01-01, 15:55   Link #60
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i hope we get a joke theory arc or something out of rei.
The culprit is...THE BOAT CAPTAIN!
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