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Old 2011-01-01, 19:36   Link #21061
Klashikari
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... I would say it is quite a rhetorical question, considering this:
http://witch-hunt.com/hist.html

I will give you that I was part of the zealous "mystery" side, since I myself had expectations of that kind.
But half way, I reconsidered this text, especially after how I was enjoying the series for different reasons, more so during Episode 7.

Whereas the truth itself is left open to interpretation, so is the whole deal about Umineko (hence why I mentioned the nature of the cat box is the same as the content of it).
The interpretation of the work itself was deliberately borderline, and Ryukishi never had the pretention to claim otherwise.

However, he did confront the readers with the different genres concept. That is also why there were anti fantasy and anti mystery talk quite early, despite people thought it was just synonym to respectively mystery and fantasy.
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Old 2011-01-01, 19:39   Link #21062
Sherringford
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Yeah, I asked that part before I actually read the episode.

Will playing badminton was the best part of the episode by far.

So far in the when they cry series:

Higurashi: Horror
Umineko: Mysteryish
Next one: SPORTS. IT WILL BE A SPORTS SERIES WHERE WILL MOTHERFUCKING WRIGHT FIGHTS TO BECOME AN OLYMPIC CHAMPION, WITH USHIROMIYA LION BEING HIS CHEERLEADER.
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Old 2011-01-01, 19:40   Link #21063
Biichama
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Never let it be said he didn't warn us.
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Old 2011-01-01, 19:41   Link #21064
Biichama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sherringford View Post
next one: Sports. It will be a sports series where will motherfucking wright fights to become an olympic champion, with ushiromiya lion being his cheerleader.
And there is a loop in time until he gets the gold medal.

Last edited by Biichama; 2011-01-01 at 19:56. Reason: typo
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Old 2011-01-01, 19:58   Link #21065
witchfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
... I would say it is quite a rhetorical question, considering this:
http://witch-hunt.com/hist.html

I will give you that I was part of the zealous "mystery" side, since I myself had expectations of that kind.
But half way, I reconsidered this text, especially after how I was enjoying the series for different reasons, more so during Episode 7.

Whereas the truth itself is left open to interpretation, so is the whole deal about Umineko (hence why I mentioned the nature of the cat box is the same as the content of it).
The interpretation of the work itself was deliberately borderline, and Ryukishi never had the pretention to claim otherwise.

However, he did confront the readers with the different genres concept. That is also why there were anti fantasy and anti mystery talk quite early, despite people thought it was just synonym to respectively mystery and fantasy.
You could see them as rhetorical questions. I did not expect a written answer, but I believe we should, at this point, be able to form our own opinions. Also, even if you did not explicitly state it, the subtext of your and Aura's posts, as well as mine, definitely implies we already have an answer to the questions. I just pointed out that we're mixing our opinions about the quality of the work, with our opinions about its nature (and whether we anticipated it).
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Old 2011-01-01, 20:03   Link #21066
Will Wright
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I'd just like to note that I've been complaining that Umineko isn't a mystery since I came here and people kept telling me "no it's a mystery you are close minded."

Including you Sherry, who kept telling me it was a mystery and even convinced me to play it. And everyone over at the publisher. And really everyone ever.

I remember that people kept complaining about me over and over and over and over and over over again because I said it wasn't a mystery.
Sherry, you said the same thing. Having a roommate tell you that is quite annoying.

I think that the only person who agreed with me that this wasn't a mystery was Renall.

But now, allow me to just say one thing:

I WAS RIGHT. YOU GUYS WERE WRONG. HA. HA. HA. RENALL, GIVE ME FIVE!

...Okay I'll start being a bit more mature no-HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA I WAS RIGHT.
...Starting now.
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Old 2011-01-01, 20:08   Link #21067
Sherringford
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Yes you were right. Now shush before I get up to actually go wrestle you to make you shut up.
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Old 2011-01-01, 20:20   Link #21068
Ssol
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And I stand by what I said over a year ago when I was arguing it.

"The point of the game is have fun while you're playing it."

goddamn... I haven't changed a bit.
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Old 2011-01-01, 20:49   Link #21069
Arachanox
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Originally Posted by Ssol View Post
And I stand by what I said over a year ago when I was arguing it.

"The point of the game is have fun while you're playing it."

goddamn... I haven't changed a bit.
I enjoyed the characters, enjoyed the mysteries, enjoyed the trolling, enjoyed the rules, enjoyed the breaking of rules, and enjoyed the meta-shenanigans. So having fun is an admirable goal which I achieved
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Old 2011-01-01, 20:58   Link #21070
Judoh
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I'd say that Umineko is still part the mystery genre. It's just not a detective story. I think it's a riddle story. The difference being that riddle stories don't have to have clues that connect together while detective stories do.

I'm kind of disappointed, but I'm not mad about it. I still had fun.
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Old 2011-01-01, 21:02   Link #21071
AuraTwilight
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Quote:
(and, to be fair, very few people here could've said they recognize this is not a mystery before EP8 was out - I'm not even sure you, Klash and Aura, are part of them, but feel free to correct me).
I was calling that this wasn't a mystery since EP5, once it became clear that the mystery-advocates were BAD GUYS.

Quote:
The question is then, are we at fault for not understanding Umineko, or is Umineko at fault for misleading us? If we subscribe to the former position, we should ask another question: does the shift from themes of mystery and fantasy to anti-mystery and anti-fantasy hold literary value, or should Umineko have remained a mystery novel?
We were told this was an anti-mystery VS anti-fantasy story since like atleast EP4. Really, there's no goddamn excuse in my opinion.
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Old 2011-01-01, 21:17   Link #21072
Kirroha
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So... if both mystery fans and fantasy fans are going to be extremely disappointed with Ep8... who's going to like it?

Quote:
SPORTS. IT WILL BE A SPORTS SERIES WHERE WILL MOTHERFUCKING WRIGHT FIGHTS TO BECOME AN OLYMPIC CHAMPION, WITH USHIROMIYA LION BEING HIS CHEERLEADER.
YES THIS. PLEASE.
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Old 2011-01-01, 21:18   Link #21073
Arachanox
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Originally Posted by Kirroha View Post
So... if both mystery fans and fantasy fans are going to be extremely disappointed with Ep8... who's going to like it?
What? Fantasy fans should love it. It is filled to the brim with metabattles and interactions between every character you could dream of. And the metametametaendings should also be enjoyable.

Really, die hard mystery people got their answers already.
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Old 2011-01-01, 21:29   Link #21074
AuraTwilight
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Quote:
So... if both mystery fans and fantasy fans are going to be extremely disappointed with Ep8... who's going to like it?
I'm not saying those guys wouldn't like it, but even if so, how about romantics (and romance is more than just love stories, strictly speaking)?
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Old 2011-01-01, 21:35   Link #21075
Kirroha
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Originally Posted by Arachanox View Post
What? Fantasy fans should love it. It is filled to the brim with metabattles and interactions between every character you could dream of. And the metametametaendings should also be enjoyable.

Really, die hard mystery people got their answers already.
But the meta was denied, so it's denying fantasy in itself. Even the kakera concept isn't existent in the end.
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Old 2011-01-01, 21:42   Link #21076
Dlanor .A. Nox
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Originally Posted by Will Wright View Post
I'd just like to note that I've been complaining that Umineko isn't a mystery since I came here and people kept telling me "no it's a mystery you are close minded."

Including you Sherry, who kept telling me it was a mystery and even convinced me to play it. And everyone over at the publisher. And really everyone ever.

I remember that people kept complaining about me over and over and over and over and over over again because I said it wasn't a mystery.
Sherry, you said the same thing. Having a roommate tell you that is quite annoying.

I think that the only person who agreed with me that this wasn't a mystery was Renall.

But now, allow me to just say one thing:

I WAS RIGHT. YOU GUYS WERE WRONG. HA. HA. HA. RENALL, GIVE ME FIVE!

...Okay I'll start being a bit more mature no-HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA I WAS RIGHT.
...Starting now.
This was UNEXPECTED, however I have to agree while it wasn't a mystery it did give me the opportunity to use my head and piece together clues and WHATNOT.
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Old 2011-01-01, 21:55   Link #21077
Used Can
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I've got mixed feelings about this, to be honest. On one hand, there was indeed a warning about this not being mystery. However, the reader was indeed encouraged to treat it as such with lines as "do not stop thinking," "rules of mystery," "trust between author and reader (i.e. the mystery is solvable," and the mood itself during the first four episodes, in my opinion, was pretty much that of a mystery novel. Not only that, but you even had R07 throwing tantrums through his characters on how this is mystery - even in EP8 he did that. So, it isn't as if R07 is saying "ha! it wasn't mystery all along" but him saying "this is mystery too, shut it!". However, I seriously cannot agree on what he thinks a mystery is, and thus, my disappointment on this final development.

Of course, I cannot say this has been a waste of time, since the whole thing was fun and enjoyable. I enjoyed the theorising, reading other people's theories, and even the shit-storms were fun as well. Furthermore, mystery aside, I think Umineko is a good story. The problem is, I also had expectations, which were betrayed, and because of that I cannot say I'm completely happy with it. I'm the sort of person who believes the destination is as important as the journey, and if one of the fails to satisfy me, then I'm simply unable to think of a piece of work as good, or avoid some degree of disappointment. This is my situation with Umineko.

I guess my main issue would be the effort I put into this. There were some riddles, puzzles and some sort of mystery indeed, but as I've said before, they had little to do with the overall story, and because of that I feel the effort I put into this didn't pay off - since the actual crime wasn't really solvable. Of course, I'm not going to say I regret having read this story, but I cannot say I'm not slightly angry.

Personally, I think it'd have been amazing if R07 would have written the same story as a LN without the mystery/fantasy premise. I think it'd have been an amazing, heart-warming story - which Umineko was, but the 4 year wait, plus the mystery/fantasy premise undermined what the ending we received could have been, in my opinion.

That's all I have to say.
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Old 2011-01-01, 22:23   Link #21078
alviam099
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I'm satisfied to the end really

I'm trying to solve it through every game though It sure breaks my head gonna start at Ep1 again I fell into a logic error on how Kyrie and Rudolf got out of the shed on ep1 though they locked it
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Old 2011-01-01, 22:31   Link #21079
Used Can
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Hmm... I don't think you can do that. If Yasu wrote the first two stories, then she must have written them before the family conference, and thus, she'd have no idea of what Kyrie and Rudolph would end up doing.

Well, I may be wrong, though.
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Old 2011-01-01, 22:33   Link #21080
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Well R07 said ep1 is solvable after all
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