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Old 2011-01-01, 17:32   Link #11001
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asuras View Post
A country-wide alignment only further serves to intensify negative feelings with zealous countries across the globe who harbor a different view.
and a complete lack of alignment, allows for situations where religious minority groups are persecuted freely because no one cares enough to stand up for them.
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Old 2011-01-01, 17:33   Link #11002
Asuras
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Then moderation is the way to go, no?
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Old 2011-01-01, 17:42   Link #11003
bladeofdarkness
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Originally Posted by Asuras View Post
Then moderation is the way to go, no?
no.
moderation is the reason why Christians all over the middle east are being persecuted by Muslims without a care.
its because the west has become too "moderate" to care about what happens to Christians in "Muslim countries" (nevermind the Christians were there first).
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Old 2011-01-01, 17:43   Link #11004
Asuras
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So, what do we do?
It seems to me like every direction is the wrong way.
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Old 2011-01-01, 17:47   Link #11005
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asuras View Post
So, what do we do?
not a simple answer.
but the answer isn't to just ignore it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Asuras View Post
It seems to me like every direction is the wrong way.
only to the "moderate" observer.
start applying pressure on the Egyptian government to do more about it, and rest assured they will.
give them a reason to fight against these kinds of attacks and they will do so much more effectively then democracies could ever do so.
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Old 2011-01-01, 17:47   Link #11006
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
no.
moderation is the reason why Christians all over the middle east are being persecuted by Muslims without a care.
its because the west has become too "moderate" to care about what happens to Christians in "Muslim countries" (nevermind the Christians were there first).

Begging the question of why the west should care about what happens to people in the Middle East, be they Christians or otherwise. I mean, yes, in the abstract, it's terrible that people are being oppressed. (Again, regardless of religion. Heck, it's terrible if they're oppressed for reasons other than religion, such as skin color or sexual orientation.) Concretely, while I'm all for sharply worded resolutions and international wringing of hands, do I want my country to get into an expensive conflict over it? No.
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Old 2011-01-01, 17:52   Link #11007
bladeofdarkness
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Begging the question of why the west should care about what happens to people in the Middle East, be they Christians or otherwise. I mean, yes, in the abstract, it's terrible that people are being oppressed. (Again, regardless of religion. Heck, it's terrible if they're oppressed for reasons other than religion, such as skin color or sexual orientation.) Concretely, while I'm all for sharply worded resolutions and international wringing of hands, do I want my country to get into an expensive conflict over it? No.
I'm assuming you are from the US.
write to your congress man and get enough of your friends to do so.
make it clear that the voters actually CARE about it, and the US gov would take action.
you don't need a conflict.
you just need to have the US apply pressure on Egypt to take action against this sort of thing (the US gives Egypt billions in Aid every year) and leave it to them.

anyway, its kinda late.
goodnight.
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Old 2011-01-01, 17:59   Link #11008
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
irrelevent.
i don't care about the interpretations of the doctrines.
i'm an atheist, and view Judaism mostly as a national identity.
...

I'm not saying a country should embrace specific doctrines regarding the religion, but i AM saying that countries who are predominantly Christian would care more about what happens to their fellow Christians overseas.
But it is relevant to such a government that you don't care and are an atheist. If a civil government locks in with a specific religion, they will run around the world engaging in 'holy retribution' and it is inevitable they will not permit internal contamination either. Atheists have to keep their ideas in the closet under "religious-aligned" governments. Its one reason the US strives to stay secular despite repeated attempts by the evangelical zealot faction to rewrite history and bring about a theocracy.

I used the term J-C-I (judeo-christian-islam) because they are part of the same Abrahamic tree and share many characteristics and behaviors. But as for this story, you could freely substitute the religions involved and the locations and it would match many news items on record or historical events: (Hindi:Muslim:India, Muslim:Hindi:India, Shia:Sunni:Iraq, Sunni:Shia:Iran, Catholics:Jews:medieval Italy, Catholics:Protestants:Ireland, Christian Nazis:Jews:Poland, etc etc etc) Give a specific religion power over a government and things will not usually go well for others, either internally or externally.

I only speak for myself but I would not want the government where I live sticking its nose into matters because "<insert specific religion here>" people were being persecuted. It'd better be because *people of any kind* were being persecuted , and it'd better be worth the national interests to do so. Despite the efforts of evangelical zealots to rewrite history or pretend otherwise, my particular country was established as a secular nation and in writing has asserted that it is not a country of any particular religion. It has certainly been at various points racist, xenophobic, exclusionary, stupid, misled ... but those were and are problems to be fixed rather than goals to achieve as fighting-the-stupid is a never-ending battle.

Last edited by Vexx; 2011-01-01 at 18:14.
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Old 2011-01-01, 18:02   Link #11009
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
I'm assuming you are from the US.
Wrong. France.

Quote:
write to your congress man and get enough of your friends to do so.
make it clear that the voters actually CARE about it, and the US gov would take action.
you don't need a conflict.
you just need to have the US apply pressure on Egypt to take action against this sort of thing (the US gives Egypt billions in Aid every year) and leave it to them.

anyway, its kinda late.
goodnight.
In case I didn't bring my point across - I do not, actually, care. Not in the "I want to do something about it" sense of "care", anyway, and what other sense is there? Two reasons:
- I do not believe in manifest destiny, in the right and duty for my country to tell others what to do. We're in enough trouble already with the Ivory Coast and Afghanistan.
- I no more identify with Christian Egyptians than with any other kind of Christian or, for that matter, any other kind of Egyptian.
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Old 2011-01-01, 18:06   Link #11010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
I'm not saying a country should embrace specific doctrines regarding the religion, but i AM saying that countries who are predominantly Christian would care more about what happens to their fellow Christians overseas.
I doubt than if they start to really care it might turn ugly...
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Old 2011-01-01, 18:16   Link #11011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
the reason Christians are now attacked with such frequency is in large part a result of an understanding among Muslim extremists in the middle east, that the west would keep quite about this kind of thing.
Yes, exactly, but instead of calling your government to petition it, you should call up the Pope in Rome to ask him to call for the Tenth Crusade.

I'm sure such a display of force will win over many Muslims.
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Old 2011-01-01, 18:21   Link #11012
ganbaru
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I'm sure such a display of force will win over many Muslims.
Maybe, but it's more likely to start more trouble.
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Old 2011-01-01, 20:57   Link #11013
Kamui4356
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
no.
moderation is the reason why Christians all over the middle east are being persecuted by Muslims without a care.
its because the west has become too "moderate" to care about what happens to Christians in "Muslim countries" (nevermind the Christians were there first).
The west being moderate has nothing to do with extremist fucktards being extremist fucktards. It's not like persecuting religious minorities is some new trend there either. It's been par for the course for thousands of years. The west applying political pressure isn't going to accomplish a heck of a lot.
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Old 2011-01-01, 22:46   Link #11014
Vexx
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From Slashdot:
Quote:
"In an interview published in Sina.com.cn, Chinese rail engineers gave a detailed account of the history, motivation, and technologies behind the Chinese high-speed rail system. More interestingly, they blatantly revealed the strategies and tactics used in acquiring high-speed rail tech from foreign companies (Google translation of Chinese original). At the beginning, China developed its own high-speed rail system known as the Chinese Star, which achieved a test speed of 320km/h; but the system was not considered reliable or stable enough for operation. So China decided to import the technologies. The leaders instructed, 'The goal of the project is to boost our economy, not theirs.' A key strategy employed is divide-and-conquer: by dividing up the technologies of the system and importing multiple different technologies across different companies, it ensures no single country or company has total control. 'What we do is to exchange market for technologies. The negotiation was led by the Ministry of Railway [against industry alliances of the exporting countries]. This uniform executive power gave China huge advantage in negotiations,' said Wu Junrong, 'If we don't give in, they have no choice. They all want a piece of our huge high speed rail project.' For example, [Chinese locomotive train] CRH2 is based on Japanese tech, CRH3 on German tech, and CRH5 on French tech, all retrofit for Chinese rail standards. Another strategy is buy-to-build. The first three trains were imported as a whole; the second three were assembled with imported parts; subsequent trains contain more and more Chinese made parts."
All I have to say is, "Good for them if the West is that stupid and they're that clever." What's the old communist line about capitalists selling the revolutionaries the shovels they use to bury the idio-um-capitalists?
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Old 2011-01-02, 00:21   Link #11015
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
not a simple answer.
but the answer isn't to just ignore it.




only to the "moderate" observer.
start applying pressure on the Egyptian government to do more about it, and rest assured they will.
give them a reason to fight against these kinds of attacks and they will do so much more effectively then democracies could ever do so.
One thing about Egypt is that it doesn't want to agitate either side, so it does nothing.
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Old 2011-01-02, 00:51   Link #11016
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Just my short bit about men wanting young girls:


1. All talks of alternatives are really just nonsense. There is no way that pleasuring yourself will ever be as good as actual warm flesh, and if one as the guts to go for it, why not? I mean, even I would rather have actual partners than pleasure myself (which has no effect for me, anyway).

2. The corrupting hedonism of the current age is really sad for me. I'm not one to be against premarital sex, but the way people think that sex is just some sort of play, and not "making love" is disturbing. Perhaps I'm just a romanticist, but making love has so much meaning, which there seems to be a lack of these days.

3. Historically, Japan has always been sexually liberal. The only difference betwee Japan and almost all countries is that Japan is very open about sexuality, hence why it seems Japan is some hyper-sexual place. It's not: It's just a place where sexual taboos are less, allowing what is usually done behind doors (not going into how there are incomparable amounts of kiddie porn in the west) to be put out in front. Underage sex? Enjo Kosai? So what, at least Japan doesn't hide between "oh, we've got morals!" while being "hypocrites".
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Old 2011-01-02, 04:09   Link #11017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
From Slashdot:


All I have to say is, "Good for them if the West is that stupid and they're that clever." What's the old communist line about capitalists selling the revolutionaries the shovels they use to bury the idio-um-capitalists?
The world has always been copying from each other illegitimately since the early 19th century, until the invention of patent lawyers.

Though I wonder how the technology in China is going to evolve like that. After burying the capitalists, the revolutionaries are going realise that they buried their legs too and can't move forward anymore.
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Old 2011-01-02, 04:20   Link #11018
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China seems to stagnate quickly, historically speaking, with technology. They got to a point were they believe (rightly so at some points in time) that they are on top of the social and technological heap and just stop. "If it wasn't written by an ancestor 1,000 years ago or more it is useless", sort of thinking. They stagnated worse than Europe (which instead of stagnating, regressed then climbed back up through the dirt...then stole stuff it couldn't figure out from the Muslim and Chinese cultures...then improved or repurposed everything they stole).
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Old 2011-01-02, 05:57   Link #11019
MakubeX2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flying ^ View Post
so how light is their prison sentence in japan?
If you must know, last I heard, those arrested was given jail sentence between 2 to 8 years

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
2. The corrupting hedonism of the current age is really sad for me. I'm not one to be against premarital sex, but the way people think that sex is just some sort of play, and not "making love" is disturbing. Perhaps I'm just a romanticist, but making love has so much meaning, which there seems to be a lack of these days.
So, your take is that the girls sre treating sex as something of recreational activity. But what are your views about them engaging in sexual exchange way before their time ? It might not be something new, ancient even, but it is getting much more common of late.

In regards to China's Reverse Engineering efforts, Japan was already partaking in it a century before in their efforts to industrialise and look where they stands now ? China is a huge place. Give the Chinese a generation or two and you'll get something revolutionary.
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Old 2011-01-02, 06:53   Link #11020
ganbaru
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Napolitano to hear air security tips in Israel
http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNew...70107R20110102

I don't know if it's a good new or not...
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