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Old 2011-01-08, 09:31   Link #401
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salt View Post
Still it's a very vague limit as to where it ends. :s
It ends as a hole in the ground

Imo, Everything from the start of the Railgun/spell up to impacting a concrete slab and shattering it into pieces, is negatable.

As far as I know, Imagine Breaker cannot put the shattered pieces back together again.

...Unless those pieces were somehow being controlled again, then the cycle continues.
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Old 2011-01-08, 09:33   Link #402
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Just take it a field of magic is wrapped around the golem,
and it is what gives the golem form and movement.
If the field is removed, it'll just be a pile of rubble.
Don't worry about that I found a way to explain it away.
It a matter of establishing want the initial effect is.

Styl's monster though... I suppose we can just pretend it does not give of heat to the surrounding air. It's the only explanation I can think of, maybe it's how it hold it's form. /shrug
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Old 2011-01-08, 09:38   Link #403
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
It ends as a hole in the ground

Imo, Everything from the start of the Railgun/spell up to impacting a concrete slab and shattering it into pieces, is negatable.

As far as I know, Imagine Breaker cannot put the shattered pieces back together again.

...Unless those pieces were somehow being controlled again, then the cycle continues.
Still "hole in the floor" is not much of a generalized law that we can use to anticipate how future fights will go. XD
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Old 2011-01-08, 09:44   Link #404
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BTW has he ever block a railgun with IB in the LNs?

I'm going to ignore the manga and take novels as canon.

In the anime, biribiri restricts herself to plain shocks.
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Old 2011-01-08, 10:10   Link #405
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It misses him
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Old 2011-01-08, 10:18   Link #406
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it just graze his head.
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Old 2011-01-08, 10:45   Link #407
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True, but he also makes mention of blocking it.

One of the things that go through his head when confrounted with the penalty game is "Would she make me play a Railgun catching game?" and in the first chapter Touma thinks to himself "Even Railgun will be negated." Plus a smattering of other mentions of blocking the Railgun.

Of course, its also ambiguous if he means -Railgun- the attack or Railgun -the person-

So at the very least, Touma thinks he can block it, but an instance is never shown on screen so to speak.
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Old 2011-01-08, 11:05   Link #408
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He can block it if he can block an attack that can shatter a whole building or turn a landscape into nothing.
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Old 2011-01-08, 11:36   Link #409
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Thanks. Just asking.

For a series that advertise science as part of the story, the author does seems to lack rigor when it comes to establishing of the rules of his world.

To leave the abilities of the main antagonist poorly defined is OK, it makes him/her more threatening, but to do so for a protagonist ...

Not to mention, it might leave the audience with a sense of deus ex machina in some cases when resolving story arcs.
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Old 2011-01-08, 12:53   Link #410
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the author has a fine grasp on his own world. That's why he can right fast. The theory behind the pseudo science that he use has no problem on it. It will only had problem if you apply number on it. Ice Block is good at defending the science law because I'm not good at those things.
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Old 2011-01-08, 15:19   Link #411
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Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
the author has a fine grasp on his own world. That's why he can right fast. The theory behind the pseudo science that he use has no problem on it. It will only had problem if you apply number on it. Ice Block is good at defending the science law because I'm not good at those things.
I just feel he is being vague where he shouldn't be, among other issues I have with his story telling.

It started of so well too. I will probably be dropping this anime, I have 3-4 ep backlogged now but can't be assed to watch them.
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Old 2011-01-08, 20:33   Link #412
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In bakatsuki forum. Onizuka recommended reading it from vol 16 because that's where it picks up the real start of the story. Well it still depends on who is reading but te style of the author improves as the story goes on.

And the author create a pretty solid answers on the ability though not for imagine breaker. All the other abilities are well explained and had a history on real world from it.
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Old 2011-01-08, 20:46   Link #413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
In bakatsuki forum. Onizuka recommended reading it from vol 16 because that's where it picks up the real start of the story. Well it still depends on who is reading but te style of the author improves as the story goes on.

And the author create a pretty solid answers on the ability though not for imagine breaker. All the other abilities are well explained and had a history on real world from it.
He's probably waiting for the right moment to explain the Imagine Breaker.
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Old 2011-01-08, 20:50   Link #414
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I just feel he is being vague where he shouldn't be, among other issues I have with his story telling.

It started of so well too. I will probably be dropping this anime, I have 3-4 ep backlogged now but can't be assed to watch them.
i can understand why no one who knows the story might drop it.

Well if u give up the anime at least read the novels.
Lets say index anime will be like this.

By seasons

1-good
2-better because of the end of the season.
3-very good because of increase in violence,story,romance, bad asses.
4- idk but ill cry halfway

im pretty sure u understand the physics of the golem being negated by now.

for the railgun im guessing the manga couldn't explain it but ill try to explain.TRY.


k so like others say he can stop the supernatural effect himself but not the after effects. As said for innocentius it burned the doorknob in ep 1 if touma touched it his hand would be burned since it now natural. Misakas coin. hmmm.... she makes her own electricity to move the coin so the coin is moving because of the electricity so once electricity is gone coin stops? The coin itself doesn't stay the same either, that shit burns fast as fuk so its like this
X=electricty
o=coin
-=melting coin

X oooooooo------- "Kaput". Though truth be told misaka won't use a railgun on him.

quote from V.1

Quote:
"Hey, you know the term 'railgun'?"
"Huh?"
"The theory of launching a metal shell via an ultra-powerful electromagnet is the same as that of a linear motorcar- except for the fact that it's like a warship weapon."
*Ping!*, the girl flipped the coin up with her thumb.
*Hyun hyun*, the rotating coin landed on her thumb again.
"Right, something like this?"
Simultaneously, those words went.
All of a sudden and without a sound, an orange spear of light horizontally pierced through an area near Kamijou's head; calling that spear a laser beam would be more accurate. Because he saw a single trail of that light's afterimage stretching from the girl's thumb, he deduced the origin of the beam to be there.
Just like lightning, a thunderous roar reverberated a moment later. A shockwave, tearing at the atmosphere, occurred near Kamijou's ears and threw off his sense of balance. The staggering Kamijou glanced behind him.
The instant the orange light crashed into the iron bridge's road surface, it was as if an aeroplane above the sea made an emergency landing and blew the asphalt off. The orange afterglow, which spanned thirty meters straight to the opposite side and did all sorts of destruction, was still scorching the atmosphere with its afterimage even after its movement stopped.
"Even a coin like this can fly three times the speed of sound if a reasonable amount of power is provided, right? Then again, it melts after about fifty meters due to friction with the atmosphere."
The bridge of iron and concrete rocked back and forth like an unreliable suspension bridge. *Gagi!*, *bishi!*, the sound of metal bolts popping out and flying here and there reverberated.
"..."
Kamijou remembered the chills, as if dry ice was being driven into every blood vessel of his body.
*Zogun*. Moisture from my whole body becoming sweat and evaporating is a strange sensation, he thought.
"You. Don't tell me you used that on that company of pursuers, did you!?"
"You idiot. I choose the opponent to use it on. Even I don't want to recklessly become a murderer."
While saying that, sparks flew from the girl's brown hair like the crackling of an electrode.
"This was sufficient to drive away those Level 0s!"
At that moment, bluish-white sparks shot out from her forelock like horns,
And like a spear, the lightning came attacking head-on.
A thing like "evasion" was impossible. At any rate, the opponent was a bluish-white lightning spear fired from the hair of a Level 5. It was the same as seeing a thunderbolt fall at light-speed and trying to avoid it, so to speak.
*Thud!*, the explosion erupted, a moment late.
To protect his face, he held out his right hand right away, which clashed with the lightning spear and also made his insides struggle. The attack became scattered in all directions as sparks, which in turn went to the steel frames that formed the iron bridge.
...So it seems.
"So, I wonder: why don't you have a single injury?"
Words sure were easy things. She was glaring at Kamijou while baring her canine teeth.
The high-voltage current, scattered around the surroundings, had the power to burn the steel frames of the bridge; in spite of that, Kamijou, who received a direct hit, didn't have his right hand blown off; he didn't even bear a single burn mark.
Kamijou's right hand blew off that girl's lightning attack which reached up to hundreds of millions of volts.
"Really, what's with that? Such a power doesn't even appear in Academy City's databank. If I am a 1-in-328,571 prodigy, then aren't you, the only one in Academy City, a 1-in-2,300,000 disaster?"
The girl muttered bitterly. Kamijou didn't even reply with a single word.
"With such an exceptional opponent to fight with, there's no choice but to raise my level this way, right?"
"...Even so, I still always lose."
The reply, which the "lightning spear attack" originated from and was sent flying from her forehead, came attacking at a speed slightly exceeding that of sound.
However, this also scattered into different directions the moment it slammed into Kamijou's right hand. It is just like knocking away a water balloon.
Imagine Breaker.
The public television program's laughingstock- and this was despite the numerous ESP formulas established within Academy City. If that attack was from the power of "strange talents", then this strange ability, even if it met God's system, would negate it without a problem.
If that girl's ESP "Railgun" was from the power of strange talents, then it was no exception.
However, Kamijou's Imagine Breaker only worked on the power of strange talents. To put it simply, it protected him from an ESP's fireball, but it couldn't protect him from the fragments of concrete that the fireball sent. Its effectiveness was also limited to "from the right wrist onward"; if any other place were to be hit by the fireball, it would definitely be covered in flames.
Going to die! Really going to die! Really going to die! he thought. Kyaaaa!!
Kamijou Touma was getting *bikibiki* stiff with a calm and composed face. Although he held out his "right hand" which completely negated the lightspeed "lightning attack spear", it was complete chance that the attack collided with his "right hand".
With his heart racing, Kamijou tried desperately to smooth everything over with the smile of an adult.
"What to say, misfortune, right?"
That's how Kamijou brought the end to that day, that one day, July 19.
In merely one word, it was really like grieving the whole world.
"For you, that's just about true, right?"
[edit]References
so i guess he knows to it wont work. But i just checked the railgun manga and saw what happened. Don't follow that, thats something from someone thats NOT the author and u see it does things differently from the anime and index manga and novels. Damn railgun giving people wrong ideas.

Teleports can work on him. The reason he negated it in the remnant arc was because it was still moving from dimension and he negated that movement. But if it was full moved then he cant stop it. Lets say a teleporter was attacking him and moved behind him and he touched them it wont put them back where they were but they cant teleport anymore.
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Old 2011-01-08, 21:14   Link #415
Chaos2Frozen
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Yup, like I've said... A hole in the ground...

Actually, I wouldn't be surprise if Touma could time his attack so precise that he can negate a teleporter in mid 'transit'. If a 4000kg object takes 10 seconds to materialize, it would imply that even the lighter mass object still have a period where they are in transit, it's just that it happens too fast and would seem like 'instant', similar to how a bullet seem to travel instantly to the naked eye.

If Touma negate that teleportation before it fully materialize, going by the result of the 4000kg, I would say he probably would just sent it/him/her back.
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Old 2011-01-08, 21:17   Link #416
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Yup, like I've said... A hole in the ground...

Actually, I wouldn't be surprise if Touma could time his attack so precise that he can negate a teleporter in mid 'transit'. If a 4000kg object takes 10 seconds to materialize, it would imply that even the lighter mass object still have a period where they are in transit, it's just that it happens too fast and would seem like 'instant', similar to how a bullet seem to travel instantly to the naked eye.

If Touma negate that teleportation before it fully materialize, going by the result of the 4000kg, I would say he probably would just sent it/him/her back.
whats a "hole in the ground"
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Old 2011-01-08, 21:30   Link #417
Chaos2Frozen
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whats a "hole in the ground"
It's my short answer to Salt's question when asked "where does the chain of supernatural events end?".
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Old 2011-01-08, 21:33   Link #418
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is it a phrase saying we're not getting anywhere?
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Old 2011-01-08, 21:35   Link #419
Chaos2Frozen
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is it a phrase saying we're not getting anywhere?
...No, it's a summary of my explanation.

Supernatural Ability (Railgun), Immediate effects (Forces produce, electricity), Secondary result (A hole in the ground)

The first two are negatable.
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Old 2011-01-08, 21:39   Link #420
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oh the coin ends as a hole in the ground. No i might agree with Salt on this one. That coins movement are natural effects even after electricity is gone. But he can't blame it one the authors plotline since he never actually put touma in that situation. BLAME THE RAILGUN MANGA!!

Spoiler for dont read SALT:

The movement is like accelerators power his ability is changing the vector of objects once they move the are moving naturally with no supernatural power moving them anymore.
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