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Old 2011-01-07, 21:37   Link #261
Ayu-ayu
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Okay, I've had time now to recover and go back over this thread having read the whole story now.

A few thoughts:

Spoiler for Cake Lamda:


Spoiler for Doll-Beatrice:


Spoiler for Erika vs. Battler closed room duel:


Spoiler for Goat invasion of the Golden Land:


Spoiler for Clair:


Spoiler for Crack hypothesis/thinking out loud:


I can't really buy into the idea though that R07 was only making it up as he went along and cherry picking solutions from the fans. I agree that there was fan influence along the way (obviously, look at the Witch Hunters, for one example), but that such nods to the fans were generally called out. While I admit it is still a catbox, I feel (Subjective truth? Really? Yeah, I know. Sigh...) that a solution is there, though it is possible it could be still left to a last queen-type move, too. I certainly hope that Umineko Rei will settle this some more (or that something will come to light in the interim).
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Old 2011-01-07, 21:42   Link #262
Mcjon01
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Well, to answer your question about the doll, the endings are the same. Different scores on the quiz game simply lead to different gifts that end up serving the same purpose.
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Old 2011-01-07, 21:49   Link #263
Ayu-ayu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
Well, to answer your question about the doll, the endings are the same. Different scores on the quiz game simply lead to different gifts that end up serving the same purpose.
Ah okay, so no other outcome change. Huh. It's still weird that the gift shows up in the trick end and not the magic one. I kind of wonder if she found it instead of Sakutaro in that fragment. Or if it's simply meant as a further reinforcement of the existence of the meta-world (beyond Erika showing up at the end).
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Old 2011-01-07, 22:40   Link #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rias
How to avoid the hate spiral? Accept the fact that Umineko is fantasy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by auratwilight
Or not be butthurt just because you didn't get your way. Either or.
Aha, that's exactly what I've been telling people. Basically, suck it up xD
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Old 2011-01-07, 22:53   Link #265
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Quote:
ah okay, so no other outcome change. Huh. It's still weird that the gift shows up in the trick end and not the magic one. I kind of wonder if she found it instead of sakutaro in that fragment. Or if it's simply meant as a further reinforcement of the existence of the meta-world (beyond erika showing up at the end).
we were trolled. Magic exists. It's all over.
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Old 2011-01-08, 02:16   Link #266
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So I was supposed to update however I got called in for hospital duty and now I have a wedding to attend lol. I should be able to update later today or by Sunday.
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Old 2011-01-08, 03:49   Link #267
AuraTwilight
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It's alright, we're all patient.
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Old 2011-01-08, 04:04   Link #268
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Whoa.. I just finished EP8. Although I kinda fell asleep going through the Tea Party... and some parts of the last two chapters. Going back to work after a long holiday of sleeping in was so hard...

Not really sure what to say... there wasn't anything too unexpected in this episode. After EP7 I had kinda expected that there was some kind of a boat, that perhaps Yasu had escaped the island with it (although prior to the events; not after) and some people on here kinda thought Battler may have lived...

I like how a lot of our theories have been confirmed, like the Gold Truth (Judoh's came the closest, I would say) and the Author Theory. You know, without that, I wonder if we would've been totally confused and lost.... 8)

Now, let me read the backlog of posts...

EDIT: Oh yah, my favorite parts were the intentional breaking of the fourth walls... and the parodies of the fans. It was funny to see the goats spout ineffectual theories from way back when we were reading earlier episodes.

EDIT2: Speaking of which, I still kinda believe there are a few things he hasn't told us yet. 8)

EDIT3: And by the way, what is it with punching loli's in the face lately? First there was Index S2... and now Erika and Bern... 8)

Last edited by Kylon99; 2011-01-08 at 04:41.
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Old 2011-01-08, 05:09   Link #269
Ayu-ayu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
we were trolled. Magic exists. It's all over.
When....when did we stop thinking?!

Actually I loved when Battler used his old defense more or less against itself during the Night of the Living Goats*. When you stop thinking, you allow the fantasy to exist, indeed.

*Night of the Living Dead was once titled "Batallion" in Japanese... "Battler+Lion"? Hmmm....
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Old 2011-01-08, 11:30   Link #270
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Update for today. The Escape to the Golden Land begins.

Spoiler for Summary:


Yes cliffhanger. The next scene is the final battle between Erika and Battler in a locked room. Two individuals but only one comes out (or so the narration says). Who will win? Find out... uh... tomorrow/later afternoon +8 GMT lol. I've gone through some of it and I can assure you it will be glorious.

BTW blog has been updated.
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Old 2011-01-08, 11:39   Link #271
Ayu-ayu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Update for today. The Escape to the Golden Land begins.


Yes cliffhanger. The next scene is the final battle between Erika and Battler in a locked room. Two individuals but only one comes out (or so the narration says). Who will win? Find out... uh... tomorrow/later afternoon +8 GMT lol.
Maybe it was my own misunderstanding, but I believe they were in each other's closed room scenario, thus two locked rooms which each had to identify the "gimmick" to in order to defeat the other. Literally a closed room "battle".
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Old 2011-01-08, 11:41   Link #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayu-ayu View Post
Maybe it was my own misunderstanding, but I believe they were in each other's closed room scenario, thus two locked rooms which each had to identify the "gimmick" to in order to defeat the other. Literally a closed room "battle".
Considering that the theoretical victim for this showdown is Erika and the theoretical criminal Battler (according to the colored text), it makes more sense for them to be in the same closed room duking it out until one person stands alone.

Heck it's more epic that way don't you agree?
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Old 2011-01-08, 12:57   Link #273
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It seem episode 8 is awesome!

and im starting to feel bad....for be in the attitude of the goats...
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Old 2011-01-08, 14:04   Link #274
Ayu-ayu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Considering that the theoretical victim for this showdown is Erika and the theoretical criminal Battler (according to the colored text), it makes more sense for them to be in the same closed room duking it out until one person stands alone.

Heck it's more epic that way don't you agree?
True, though it's a bit weird then that there would be two wildly different solutions to a closed room scenario...oh wait.

Though I wasn't expecting Battler's to be more wack than Erika's... I mean, seriously...
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Old 2011-01-08, 14:35   Link #275
Ayu-ayu
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Some more corrections:

Quote:
She dishes out Kox 8 to counter an ungiven clue. A goat declares the victims dead by homicide and the rooms became secret rooms created by the victims. Dlanor staggers a bit after this.
The goat here actually declared that it was a faked murder, the closed rooms were possible because the "victims" were actually alive (essentially the scenario from episode 6 before Erika ensured the bodies were dead). That's why Will steps in and saves her with Van Dine as it requires the presence of a corpse.

Also:
Quote:
Ange makes it inside the chapel. She finds the diary. Only the game master should be able to open it, and she believes that the real game master is Bern.
Not exactly. She knows still Battler is the original game master, but also knows that Bern is master of the secondary game on the same board, so her own GM powers will nullify Battler's protective seal as they are at the same level. But it's not that she thinks Bern is the real game master over Battler. How else would Battler's protection seal matter if it wasn't created under the GM's authority?
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Old 2011-01-08, 18:04   Link #276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayu-ayu View Post
Okay, I've had time now to recover and go back over this thread having read the whole story now.

A few thoughts:

Spoiler for Cake Lamda:


Spoiler for Doll-Beatrice:


Spoiler for Erika vs. Battler closed room duel:


Spoiler for Goat invasion of the Golden Land:


Spoiler for Clair:


Spoiler for Crack hypothesis/thinking out loud:


I can't really buy into the idea though that R07 was only making it up as he went along and cherry picking solutions from the fans. I agree that there was fan influence along the way (obviously, look at the Witch Hunters, for one example), but that such nods to the fans were generally called out. While I admit it is still a catbox, I feel (Subjective truth? Really? Yeah, I know. Sigh...) that a solution is there, though it is possible it could be still left to a last queen-type move, too. I certainly hope that Umineko Rei will settle this some more (or that something will come to light in the interim).

Lambda cake? That's real?
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Old 2011-01-08, 18:07   Link #277
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Just read ayu-ayu description... It isn't like she is literally a cake.
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Old 2011-01-08, 18:27   Link #278
ClannadDango
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Hmm since I haven't read this final arc I have to rely on this forum, thank god. It would be interesting if Lambda was a cake.

So far it appears Ryukishi07 has allowed for the reader to solve the story but not the mystery itself. Ryukishi07 did say that those smart enough should have solved the mystery from 2nd arc. I would like to see if the right answer can also be determined from EP8.

The closed rooms appear well written for the mystery fans. I can't wait for the english patch.
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Old 2011-01-08, 20:56   Link #279
MeoTwister5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayu-ayu View Post
Some more corrections:



The goat here actually declared that it was a faked murder, the closed rooms were possible because the "victims" were actually alive (essentially the scenario from episode 6 before Erika ensured the bodies were dead). That's why Will steps in and saves her with Van Dine as it requires the presence of a corpse.

Also:


Not exactly. She knows still Battler is the original game master, but also knows that Bern is master of the secondary game on the same board, so her own GM powers will nullify Battler's protective seal as they are at the same level. But it's not that she thinks Bern is the real game master over Battler. How else would Battler's protection seal matter if it wasn't created under the GM's authority?

1. Yeah. Read it again and my original summarize doesn't make a lot of sense considering Van Dyne's rule. Will edit it later.

2. I realized it would take a long amount of time to explain how Bern's status would override Battler's status as GM and allowing her to break the seal over the diary so I just went with Bern being the overriding GM. I'll let Witch Hunt be the one to do it right.
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Old 2011-01-09, 02:58   Link #280
theacefrehley
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Finished reading it a while ago. I can say I liked it. I'm no mystery fan, so don't blame me if I can't see the nuances of the genre being misused or not.
Let's say I liked the detective stuff.



Honestly, I enjoyed the franchise. I don't regret my time reading it.
I'd read another WTC series.

Maybe I'd be happier with an ending like Higurashi, with a kakera musubi that, if not 100%, answered at least 95% of the questions left after Minagoroshi-hen, but who knows if that's not going to happen in an Umineko Rei? I don't know how people are reacting in Japan, but if it is too bad, maybe he'll have to pull out something like that, or release it in the PS3 port sequel ()

As for the secret rooms, I was already satisfied with Will's cryptic answers by the end of EP7 regarding the how. The same goes to the culprit background.

As for the fuss of the catbox not being opened, even though a bit disappointed after all the cock tease about Eva's diary, I kind of didn't care in the end. Bern's version of the catbox is acceptable to me, only with less evil in the air.

I thought it was quite decent the way the 'dead' Battler came back in the end.

As for Ange's endings, I think the 'bad' ending was awesome and the magic end was the happy ending expected.
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