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Old 2011-01-11, 19:47   Link #2081
Kismet-chan
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I never read roriconfan's posts because it turns into a damned thesis near 60% of the time, so I admire zato's_1one's effort. Honestly, Shiki is not worth that much typing. It wasn't good nor bad enough to deserve that deep of an analysis. Sheesh.

And who the hell is talking about fan serivce in Shiki? Seriously? Two characters with noticeably big boobs and some attractive gothic outfits that appear on one of them = fanservice? Please.
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Old 2011-01-11, 19:52   Link #2082
shiroi mahotsukai
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Well... we had that nurse...
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Old 2011-01-11, 19:55   Link #2083
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It's like Silverwrym just said,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverwyrm View Post
Yes a couple of opening pictures, very occasional megumi/chizuru outfits and its now a boobs anime with no other focus. Honestly, you can hardly call that enough to count.
If someone wants to call that fan service, then go ahead, but the anime wasn't overflowing with it so I wouldn't call it as such.
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Old 2011-01-11, 20:09   Link #2084
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It wasn't overflowing but it was there. And the fact it was supposed to be a rural village made it really weird to see those stylish clothes (not to mention the weird hairdos)

AND WHY IS THE MAIN PICTURE OF THE SHOW SHOWING THAT BISHOUNEN WITH THE OPEN SHIRT???
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Old 2011-01-11, 21:34   Link #2085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
Shiki is not free of fan service you know. Main entry picture anyone? And the nasty scenes are questionable if they are nothing but cheap shock effect for superficial drama that with lots of imagination can be a symbolism against Nazis or something.
Goodwins law!

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Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
AND WHY IS THE MAIN PICTURE OF THE SHOW SHOWING THAT BISHOUNEN WITH THE OPEN SHIRT???
Because 1. He is one of the main characters and 2. publishers know what sells and use it to their advantage. Seriously, that complaint could be made against most series you know.
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Old 2011-01-12, 08:37   Link #2086
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
Then name me ten characters and how they developed by the end of the series. If you can do that in a show of over sixty, then I will admit it had a lot of developed characters.
Ten? That's ,somehow , not easy when the number of main character of the series are less than that. Plus, I can't remember many Japanese name. Well, I don't want to prove or convince anyone. Just saying that this blog is a good read.

By the way, my favorite character is the green hair nurse (sorry, can't remember her name ).
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Old 2011-01-12, 08:57   Link #2087
orion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kismet-chan View Post
And who the hell is talking about fan serivce in Shiki? Seriously? Two characters with noticeably big boobs and some attractive gothic outfits that appear on one of them = fanservice? Please.
And Megumi's chest size increased after her conversion.
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Old 2011-01-12, 11:56   Link #2088
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zato_1one View Post
Ten? That's ,somehow , not easy when the number of main character of the series are less than that. Plus, I can't remember many Japanese name. Well, I don't want to prove or convince anyone. Just saying that this blog is a good read.
All those characters besides the doctor did not develop at all. They just kicked the bucket. There is almost zero development for the cast in this show; it just uses far fetched drama to bring out what they were even without becoming Shiki or Nazis.

That is what I disliked about the show. It has no development for its cast and starts as a good horror mystery and ends as a social drama against weak established social prejuice around bijins. I got the same stuff in Interview with a Vampire in a lot less time and in a lot more entertaining way.
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Old 2011-01-12, 14:45   Link #2089
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Then why did you sit through the whole thing, then? I wouldn't torture myself by watching an ENTIRE series of something I didn't like. Such a waste of time. Unless you're a "I can NOT make a final determination until I've seen ALL of it" kind of person, then I can understand (somewhat).
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Old 2011-01-12, 14:59   Link #2090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kismet-chan View Post
I wouldn't torture myself by watching an ENTIRE seriesof something I didn't like.

From what I gather roriconfan didn't find it terrible (the grade says "average") he just didn't find it memorable,considering i've seen him hand out 2/10 and 3/10 , 5/10 isn't such a bad score.
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Old 2011-01-12, 15:07   Link #2091
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Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
Do you know how many vampire anime they made these last years?
I was going to ask you to enlighten us, but on second thought I can think of at least eight vampire-themed series in the last six years, so I suppose it's not exactly rare even if it does not come up every single season.
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Old 2011-01-12, 15:16   Link #2092
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Originally Posted by totoum View Post
From what I gather roriconfan didn't find it terrible (the grade says "average") he just didn't find it memorable,considering i've seen him hand out 2/10 and 3/10 , 5/10 isn't such a bad score.
Ah, okay. I personally tend to consider anything that's 5/10 and below bad when it comes to people's scoring, but everyone rates things differently.

It still seems like an awful lot of trouble to go through for an anime that you could tell from fairly early on enough you felt was going to be mediocre/average... But hey, that's just me. :x
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Old 2011-01-12, 18:32   Link #2093
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^ This is such a faulty logic. Why can't people watch a series they don't love? I in particular watched Shiki so to write a review. Or is it forbidden to write a negative review? Or mention a negative opinion?

I also read all of Harry Poter in order to have proof of how NOT great it is. Why can't the not-fans of something have the right to watch or talk about that something? Why have closed circles of fanboys who throw out all those who don't worship the something and hype it all over the internet? Are anime religions? (don't you dare mention Haruhism)

What is even worse is when the fans of something use double edge knife no matter what you do. First they will say "If you don't like it, don't watch it" but then will boost the "You can't judge how bad it is if you haven't watched it." And when you finally do watch it and have examples of why you didn't like it will again say "Get a life and go watch something you like instead of wasting it on something you hate."

This religious logic to anime is so infuriating, I think I will write a review about it and rate a 2/10
... oh wait ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lightbringer View Post
I was going to ask you to enlighten us, but on second thought I can think of at least eight vampire-themed series in the last six years, so I suppose it's not exactly rare even if it does not come up every single season.
http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl....minweight=100
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Old 2011-01-12, 19:26   Link #2094
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Rori, I think the main problem at hand with your review is it is filled with "factual" this is stupid, this is bad this is stupid, this is retarded etc. or "I didn't like this so it is terrible"

Whether they are major fans, or just kind of liked it when your use direct insults and state them as if there is no possible alternative thought, your going to make people mad.

A review is opinion yes, even if you wrote bad review with more careful words you'd get people going against you (obviously, when opinions differ it happens) but re-reading it you were often straight up hostile which is going to stir hate. Also, take into account most people still reading this thread will be people who were fans/supporters or "like more than dislike" the show.

I'm not expecting a professional review here, but your frequent re-use of strong language and direct insults I am not the least bit surprised you are getting this kind of response.
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Old 2011-01-12, 20:06   Link #2095
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It's ok, I am not saying the review is unbiased; just saying the anime has lots of elements that as good as they are in theory or inside your mind, as actual storytelling it is very bad. And I am not going to be gentle about it.

And seriously, there is no character development, outside of two-three people. Let's not confuse exposure with development. There was zero difference in being human or Shiki.

In fact, Shiki suck (pun) if they can't even stand sun light and can only feed on human blood. What kind of a plan having a whole village of them would accomplsh? Feeling sympathy for one another? THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE CHARACTER WISE.

And why are werewolves the servants of Shiki if they are far more powerful and can move during day? They should be the masters. They are like master vampires with so much plus.

And why was that human serving the Shiki if he wanted to be one yet couldn't? And why did he shot dead his own werewolf sevant who wanted to help him? And what did the village doctor want to accomplish that was so surprising to him in the end? OF COURSE AND THE VILLAGE WAS DESTROEYD YOU IDIOT, WHAT ELSE WOULD HAVE HAPPEND?

The story is full of plot holes and nonesense and if you care about that, of course and it feels bad when critisizing it. But if you don't care about storytelling but "good in theory only" stories and "cool / dramatic characters" on paper, then yes it is very good.

In other news, Interview with a Vampire is as I said a great example of what Shiki failed to have. Exposure - development - reasoning - action - good pacing
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Old 2011-01-12, 20:29   Link #2096
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
And why are werewolves the servants of Shiki if they are far more powerful and can move during day? They should be the masters. They are like master vampires with so much plus.
They are pretty much in command since Tatsumi runs all the operations and all shiki's obey him.
He decided to serve Sunako as a choice,that's made pretty clear,it's not like the anime is saying Sunako is somehow forcing him to serve her or that he has to because he's a werewolf.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
And why was that human serving the Shiki if he wanted to be one yet couldn't? And why did he shot dead his own werewolf sevant who wanted to help him?
I'm expecting the DVD only episode to cover both of these,though on 2nd one it seems pretty obvious that Natsumo bit him and has him hipnotised and ordered him to shoot the girl.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
And what did the village doctor want to accomplish that was so surprising to him in the end? OF COURSE AND THE VILLAGE WAS DESTROEYD YOU IDIOT, WHAT ELSE WOULD HAVE HAPPEND?
How is he supposed to know that a fire would break out and destroy the whole village?
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Old 2011-01-12, 20:55   Link #2097
Kismet-chan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
^ This is such a faulty logic. Why can't people watch a series they don't love? I in particular watched Shiki so to write a review. Or is it forbidden to write a negative review? Or mention a negative opinion?

I also read all of Harry Poter in order to have proof of how NOT great it is. Why can't the not-fans of something have the right to watch or talk about that something? Why have closed circles of fanboys who throw out all those who don't worship the something and hype it all over the internet? Are anime religions? (don't you dare mention Haruhism)

What is even worse is when the fans of something use double edge knife no matter what you do. First they will say "If you don't like it, don't watch it" but then will boost the "You can't judge how bad it is if you haven't watched it." And when you finally do watch it and have examples of why you didn't like it will again say "Get a life and go watch something you like instead of wasting it on something you hate."

This religious logic to anime is so infuriating, I think I will write a review about it and rate a 2/10
... oh wait ...
You complain about "faulty logic" in a post that's chock full of it, along with some attitude to top it off. And twisting my words to come up with YOUR own inaccurate interpretation of what I meant? Ridiculous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverwyrm View Post
Rori, I think the main problem at hand with your review is it is filled with "factual" this is stupid, this is bad this is stupid, this is retarded etc. or "I didn't like this so it is terrible"

Whether they are major fans, or just kind of liked it when your use direct insults and state them as if there is no possible alternative thought, your going to make people mad.

A review is opinion yes, even if you wrote bad review with more careful words you'd get people going against you (obviously, when opinions differ it happens) but re-reading it you were often straight up hostile which is going to stir hate. Also, take into account most people still reading this thread will be people who were fans/supporters or "like more than dislike" the show.

I'm not expecting a professional review here, but your frequent re-use of strong language and direct insults I am not the least bit surprised you are getting this kind of response.
^This.
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Old 2011-01-12, 22:15   Link #2098
wandering-dreamer
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Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
^ This is such a faulty logic. Why can't people watch a series they don't love? I in particular watched Shiki so to write a review. Or is it forbidden to write a negative review? Or mention a negative opinion?
I'm more puzzled because, well, you could be spending your time watching something you actually enjoy instead. It seems a bit masochistic to keep watching something you don't like precisely because you don't like it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
In fact, Shiki suck (pun) if they can't even stand sun light and can only feed on human blood. What kind of a plan having a whole village of them would accomplish? Feeling sympathy for one another? THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE CHARACTER WISE.

And why are werewolves the servants of Shiki if they are far more powerful and can move during day? They should be the masters. They are like master vampires with so much plus.

And why was that human serving the Shiki if he wanted to be one yet couldn't? And why did he shot dead his own werewolf servant who wanted to help him? And what did the village doctor want to accomplish that was so surprising to him in the end? OF COURSE AND THE VILLAGE WAS DESTROYED YOU IDIOT, WHAT ELSE WOULD HAVE HAPPENED?
1. Sunako wanted more Shiki because she was lonely, plain and simple.
2. It's specifically stated that Sunako doesn't see the Shiki as incomplete jinrou but that they are allies (or something along those lines, if anyone could fine the exact line that would be great). For Tatsumi it's not a master-servant thing, he respects Sunako and cares for her and that's why he takes care of her.
3. Because he loved Chizuru and love makes you do crazy things.
4. As I stated earlier in the thread, I saw a bite mark on him so it would make sense that Natsuno bit him and instructed him to take down any Shiki that he saw.
5. Pretty sure that Doc wasn't expecting the village to literally explode into flame.
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Old 2011-01-12, 22:54   Link #2099
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Hope I'm not coming out too awkward, I have a hard timing wording things how i want to I end up getting long winded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roriconfan View Post
It's ok, I am not saying the review is unbiased; just saying the anime has lots of elements that as good as they are in theory or inside your mind, as actual storytelling it is very bad. And I am not going to be gentle about it.
You can say it sucks without being confrontational, the way you wrote your review left an impression that you were angry and hateful, so most people will respond as if you are such. If you want better responses you need to say it in a way that people know what your saying, but aren't insulted by it. if you walk up and insult someone, they will likely insult you back even if what you said is fully or partially true.

Quote:
And seriously, there is no character development, outside of two-three people. Let's not confuse exposure with development. There was zero difference in being human or Shiki.
In the show yes, manga does a bit better of a job, while there isn't a ton of development, it isn't a story about any one of the characters but rather the situation both sides are in, why they do what they do etc. Most of this is lost in the anime though since the inner dialogues are removed.
Quote:
In fact, Shiki suck (pun) if they can't even stand sun light and can only feed on human blood. What kind of a plan having a whole village of them would accomplsh? Feeling sympathy for one another? THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE CHARACTER WISE.
They desire to not live in fear of death, yes they are actually quite weak, but they still want to live, Wiping out this nowhere place secretly (controlling information flow to mask it) Will allow them to have a haven where they wouldn't need to hide and skulk as well as having their own society not any different form a human settlement.

Quote:
And why are werewolves the servants of Shiki if they are far more powerful and can move during day? They should be the masters. They are like master vampires with so much plus.
This requires background the anime didn't cover, I'm not sure if the manga or novel covered that yet either. From strictly anime perspective your right, it is simply an unanswered question.

Quote:
And why was that human serving the Shiki if he wanted to be one yet couldn't? And why did he shot dead his own werewolf sevant who wanted to help him? And what did the village doctor want to accomplish that was so surprising to him in the end? OF COURSE AND THE VILLAGE WAS DESTROEYD YOU IDIOT, WHAT ELSE WOULD HAVE HAPPEND?
Yet again more that was left out from the manga (most of this was only hinted in the anime) so I cant argue the anime perspective but I'll shed what I know. Due to genetics seishero (sp?) had nil chance of becoming a shiki, why he would serve them seems self explanatory. He seemed to revere them and wanted to do what he could since he couldn't be one himself. He shot the werewolf because he had been bitten by yuuki and was under his control.

As for the doctor, he started to drown in his hatred for the shiki and did everything he could to see them destroyed, I would go so far as to say his want to see them eradicated even overruled his desire to save people. He even turned a blind eye to what some of his allies were beginning to do. I don't think it was surprising more than his leave of sense finally returning to him and realizing that he should have known it would end up that way.

That's how I feel any way, hoping the manga will shed more light on that.

Quote:
The story is full of plot holes and nonesense and if you care about that, of course and it feels bad when critisizing it. But if you don't care about storytelling but "good in theory only" stories and "cool / dramatic characters" on paper, then yes it is very good.

In other news, Interview with a Vampire is as I said a great example of what Shiki failed to have. Exposure - development - reasoning - action - good pacing
Its really unfortunate so many details were left out in the anime, having read other sources first, I probably missed a lot of said holes because I had prior knowledge to what it was and so I didn't notice it. Strictly from the anime perspective I cant argue many of your points.

The point I have been trying to stress about the review is, when you write a review, good or bad, people will disagree. In a thread that mostly be perused by fans, most of those people will disagree with a bad review. Further when write a review with your impressions of the show, it is going to leave people an impression of you based on how you write it. Especially if your opinions are very harsh like your own you should be more careful in how you word things (this post of yours is a good example of better language use compared to the first). If you think it sucked and was terrible, then you should write that but do it in a way that doesn't cause a knee-jerk reaction.

Weird example sorry but lets say...

You have a lemonade stand, I throw the cup at the ground and say "your lemonade is *beep* terrible". That's asking for a fight, even if it was true.

Rather I should say (aside form not throwing the cup at the ground, perhaps tossing it to the can to make the point) "This stuff tastes terrible, probably because *problems here*" I am much more likely to spark an intelligent conversation that way, while still getting my point across that it was just bad.

Put simply: Even if you vehemently hate it, sound intelligent about it to provoke more intelligent responses. Hostility will be responded to with hostility.


I've dragged this out long enough, hope I conveyed my point in an intelligible manner, every time I type and retype what I think I seem think something is missing...
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Old 2011-01-13, 02:12   Link #2100
zato_1one
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Originally Posted by wandering-dreamer View Post
1. Sunako wanted more Shiki because she was lonely, plain and simple.
2. It's specifically stated that Sunako doesn't see the Shiki as incomplete jinrou but that they are allies (or something along those lines, if anyone could fine the exact line that would be great). For Tatsumi it's not a master-servant thing, he respects Sunako and cares for her and that's why he takes care of her.
3. Because he loved Chizuru and love makes you do crazy things.
4. As I stated earlier in the thread, I saw a bite mark on him so it would make sense that Natsuno bit him and instructed him to take down any Shiki that he saw.
5. Pretty sure that Doc wasn't expecting the village to literally explode into flame.
This. Shiki is not a series which tries to take itself too serious. The reason behind it may be very simple. Nothing is always necessary complex. And it's not a bad thing at all. I'm sure that some of those are pretty obvious. Complaining about it only shows that you don't take much attention to it or you never try to think about it any further.

Sunako just wanted to build her own family and lived happily. She didn't want to escape anymore. Another people in Kanemasa also shared this vision. There is a reason that I can think of why they didn't turn the man into Shiki even if he wanted to be one. If I remember correctly, he stated that he was responsible about there authority and real estate. It's actually reasonable that they didn't turn him to Shiki because his work needed to deal with human in daylight. There is no guarantee that he could become werewolf or even shiki. He might just die that's all.

Werewolf is more powerful than Shiki. But if you think only this and declare "ZOMG, WEREWOLF SHOULD RULE THE SHIKI. THEY ARE MORE POWERFUL. WHY DO THEY FOLLOW SUNAKO. THIS MUST BE A PLOTHOLE!" That's because you look at it only one side. It's not all about power level. Shiki is liked human. They have allies. They have friends. They have emotion. This series is not all about the individual. The life of villagers are reflected from the perspective of each main characters. Each moment leads to another moment. A peaceful and kind villager turn into a murderer. That's how the villager in this series developed in the end.
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