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Old 2004-10-18, 13:10   Link #21
srb
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It's a Musai in White Base colours, it must be awesome
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Old 2004-10-19, 06:59   Link #22
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Not only did Zeon have the better units, they also had the better pilots and the best weapon development speed. Hell, the NT1 got trashed by a Zaku piloted by a n00b that never did anything good in his life... I'd pilot a Gelgoog whenever you want instead of a UC gundam. But if you're talking alternate universe (especially Seed), it's Gundam all the way (or a Tallgeese, hehe).

And if you think Zeon and Plant are the same... Technically, ZAFT (while composed solely of coordinators) have almost no ace pilots, as opposed to Zeon who had too many good pilots and not enough machines for them. But the real difference lies deeper down... Zeon is composed of people EXILED from Earth, while Plant is composed of people who FLED Earth to find a new form of freedom in space, meaning their motivations are pretty different.
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Old 2004-10-19, 08:48   Link #23
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Well, you also have to remember that the Zaku II FZ that Bernie piloted was a pretty high-spec Zaku and supposed to be controlled by a normal human.

Alex was configured for Amuro Ray and with room for improvement - Chris did say in the series that she had no clue how a normal human would be able to operate it, and the guy she spoke to said that you would have to be some sort of freak to operate it.

Bernie and Chris would probably be about equal in experience except that Bernie had trained on a Zaku and actually had sortied on a mission whereas Chris was completely un-tested and had undergone her training in a simulator or GM and was assigned as a test pilot for the RX-78NT-1. The Alex would probably have been the best mobile suit in the OYW except for the Zeong if Amuro had been the pilot, with the Galbaldy a close third followed by Gelgoog Jägers and Marines.
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Old 2004-10-19, 08:59   Link #24
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To be selected to be a test pilot for a RX-type MS, you have to be more than a average pilot... And Bernard Wiseman was probably amongst the worst Zeon pilot in existence, not even getting a single kill (shooting balls with a FZ shouldn't be that hard, after all...), and the FZ is not really a super Zaku anyways, roughly a Zaku with better booster power and better electronics. Think of it as a revision 4 F-16, if you will.

But I'm kinda off topic right now...
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Old 2004-10-19, 09:02   Link #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSilver
To be selected to be a test pilot for a RX-type MS, you have to be more than a average pilot... And Bernard Wiseman was probably amongst the worst Zeon pilot in existence, not even getting a single kill (shooting balls with a FZ shouldn't be that hard, after all...), and the FZ is not really a super Zaku anyways, roughly a Zaku with better booster power and better electronics. Think of it as a revision 4 F-16, if you will.

But I'm kinda off topic right now...
I would think that she was assigned as the test pilot since she showed more "sensibility" and Newtype potential than other graduates from the academy.

And he was never sortied against Balls, his first mission was fighting inside of a colony versus GM Command types.

I know it's not a "super Zaku", but it's a good Zaku and probably a hell of a lot easier for a pilot to handle than a super-sensitive machine calibrated for Amuro Ray.
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Old 2004-10-19, 09:10   Link #26
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It was a Zaku II Custom if I recall correctly...but it's STILL A ZAKU VS A l33t GUNDAM! XD
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Old 2004-10-19, 09:12   Link #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcasteak
It was a Zaku II Custom if I recall correctly...but it's STILL A ZAKU VS A l33t GUNDAM! XD
Zaku IIFZ Custom under the United Maintenance Plan.

And the pilots weren't l33t, and Bernie didn't win - he cut off the head but became hamburger.
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Old 2004-10-19, 09:15   Link #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srb
Zaku IIFZ Custom under the United Maintenance Plan.

And the pilots weren't l33t, and Bernie didn't win - he cut off the head but became hamburger.
Busting a gundam with a Zaku (that, might I remind you, only had his heat hawk and a bunch of grenades) is winning in my book...
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Old 2004-10-19, 09:18   Link #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSilver
Not only did Zeon have the better units, they also had the better pilots and the best weapon development speed. Hell, the NT1 got trashed by a Zaku piloted by a n00b that never did anything good in his life... I'd pilot a Gelgoog whenever you want instead of a UC gundam. But if you're talking alternate universe (especially Seed), it's Gundam all the way (or a Tallgeese, hehe).

And if you think Zeon and Plant are the same... Technically, ZAFT (while composed solely of coordinators) have almost no ace pilots, as opposed to Zeon who had too many good pilots and not enough machines for them. But the real difference lies deeper down... Zeon is composed of people EXILED from Earth, while Plant is composed of people who FLED Earth to find a new form of freedom in space, meaning their motivations are pretty different.
Hmm... I'm not sure where you get the Zeon had too many good pilots part... they used up almost all their good pilots in Operation British and Battle of Loum at the start of the one-year-war, and that's why General Reville made the famous "Zeon has no soldier left!" speech and convinced the Federation to continue the war instead of practically surrendering to Zeon in the Antarctic meeting. And indeed Zeon was almost depleted of good pilots at that time.

About NT-1 vs. Zaku, well, Chris fell into Bernie's trap, and remember Chris was not a real soldier, she was just a test pilot and she couldn't control NT-1 well as she's practically overwhelmed by NT-1's performace and fast response. She said that herself that she has absolutely no experience in real fighting and it showed as how she was easily tricked by Bernie's traps. It's not like that you can say NT-1 is inferior to Zaku just because it fought to a tie against Zaku, since just days before NT-1 defeated a Kampfer. And you can't say that Kampfer is weaker than Zaku can you?

Also PLANT people did not flee from Earth, they are sent there to gather resources for Earth. It's because the Earth asking too much a quota that's the cause of the war.
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Old 2004-10-19, 09:23   Link #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSilver
Busting a gundam with a Zaku (that, might I remind you, only had his heat hawk and a bunch of grenades) is winning in my book...
...But he died. The NT-1 was moderately damaged but never fully repaired since the war ended.

Bernie died. He got a beam saber through his cockpit.

Chris in the Alex won.
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Old 2004-10-19, 09:24   Link #31
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Zeon had plenty of pilots after the Battle of Loum... They had the Black Tri-Star, Johnny Ridden, Shin Matsunaga, Char Aznable, Garma Zabi, all of the Midnight Fenrir, Ramba Ral, Anavel Gato, Dimitri...

And I had never heard about the Plant quota thing, sorry... I must have missed it somewhere...
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Old 2004-10-19, 09:42   Link #32
dreamless
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSilver
Zeon had plenty of pilots after the Battle of Loum... They had the Black Tri-Star, Johnny Ridden, Shin Matsunaga, Char Aznable, Garma Zabi, all of the Midnight Fenrir, Ramba Ral, Anavel Gato, Dimitri...

And I had never heard about the Plant quota thing, sorry... I must have missed it somewhere...
well, Zeon had quite some top ace pilots, but they were really exhausted in good veteran pilots at that time. a dozen or so ace pilots won't make a difference in a huge war where the casualty amounted to hundreds of millions. I think the general lack of number of pilots and the lack of a decent number of good pilots (it's not about a dozen or so aces, but thousands of veteran soldiers) was the main reason of Zeon's defeat, they got depleted, while the Federation still had plenty of soldiers and resources. Zeon's losing quite some aces at the hands of Amuro Ray just accelerated its defeat.

For the plant quota thing, I think it's mentioned in episode 14, Rau's recap episode...
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Old 2004-10-19, 10:13   Link #33
sarcasteak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSilver
Zeon had plenty of pilots after the Battle of Loum... They had the Black Tri-Star, Johnny Ridden, Shin Matsunaga, Char Aznable, Garma Zabi, all of the Midnight Fenrir, Ramba Ral, Anavel Gato, Dimitri...

And I had never heard about the Plant quota thing, sorry... I must have missed it somewhere...
I can't believe some one other than me memorized all those!

Shin was White Wolf right? ^_^;;
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Old 2004-10-19, 10:56   Link #34
dreamless
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yup, Shin, the white wolf of solomon
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Old 2004-10-19, 19:15   Link #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless
yup, Shin, the white wolf of solomon
Matsunaga was probably one of the greatest Zeon hero, not because he promoted Zeon ideals but because he was a REAL military man, a little like Roy Fokker in Macross.
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