AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Umineko

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2011-01-15, 05:49   Link #21501
AuraTwilight
The True Culprit
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The Golden Land
Send a message via AIM to AuraTwilight Send a message via MSN to AuraTwilight
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
Tch... I totally did Shkanon-formers way before you did. It's buried in the episode 6 thread somewhere. But nobody laughed when I did it lol.
My version is way funnier.
__________________
When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531
AuraTwilight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-01-15, 08:41   Link #21502
CrystalStarlight95
Miss Kimi
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Residing as the 18th guest of Rokkenjima
Age: 18
Spoiler for Battler's Sin must be....:


Spoiler for What the sin has to do with Beatrice...:
__________________
(Colored over a Higurashi manga scan. Yes, I suck .-.)

"Were you not listening, Kimi-chan? Knox's 7th: It is forbidden for the detective to be the culprit."
CrystalStarlight95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-01-15, 09:49   Link #21503
Kirroha
Just... disturbed.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrystalStarlight95 View Post
Spoiler for Battler's Sin must be....:
Pretty sure George had hidden the letter. Even after coming back after 6 years, Battler still had feelings for Shannon and felt jealous when he saw George and Shannon together. With that seen, it's hard to believe Battler didn't give Shannon a letter. Besides, George apparently already knew about Battler and Shannon's relationship, but still acted innocent when the letters were passed, and also kept insisting to shannon that battler will never return.
Kirroha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-01-15, 10:40   Link #21504
Antera Caramichael
French Maid
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Poitiers; France
Age: 21
But at the same time, Battler admit that he forgot about Shanon, and that he had no right to interfere with their love.
Antera Caramichael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-01-15, 12:16   Link #21505
CrystalStarlight95
Miss Kimi
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Residing as the 18th guest of Rokkenjima
Age: 18
Battler probably knows he said bye to her and "promised" to come back, but maybe it was just a joke on his part? He was only 13 when he said it, or he was probably just so shy he said it to sound adult or something.
Battler maybe just forgot the love. George is such an ass, he maybe sent letters to Battler saying, "Oh ya, Shannon's doing great without you~ " just to sabatoge the relationship more(LOL sorry I dunno if they ever had contact, just kidding)

I hate George, if only he gave Shannon the darn letter, it would've probably changed things D:<
__________________
(Colored over a Higurashi manga scan. Yes, I suck .-.)

"Were you not listening, Kimi-chan? Knox's 7th: It is forbidden for the detective to be the culprit."
CrystalStarlight95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-01-15, 14:09   Link #21506
Sir Andy Richter
Wuh?
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: In my bed. It's great.
Age: 23
Why would George hide this theoretical letter?

Come on, guys. Even Battler himself said he completely forgot about her, and clearly didn't feel that way about her.
Sir Andy Richter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-01-15, 15:08   Link #21507
Lumy
非合理の魔女
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Germany
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Andy Richter View Post
Why would George hide this theoretical letter?

Come on, guys. Even Battler himself said he completely forgot about her, and clearly didn't feel that way about her.
I don't think Battler would feel the need to write letters to everyone in his family, knowing they'd be handed to them on Rokkenjima, and decide to specifically not write to the girl he liked a lot back then... who's also living on that island.

Judging from George's dialogue when he hands Shannon the empty bag, and him mentioning again and again that Battler probably won't return, and the whole envy talk in EP7... well, at least it has been established in EP1-6 that George will go to great lengths to have Shannon for himself.

Because Shannon never replied, Battler probably thought she had lost interest and started to more or less forget about her after a while too.
__________________




Last edited by Lumy; 2011-01-15 at 16:58.
Lumy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-01-15, 15:24   Link #21508
AuraTwilight
The True Culprit
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The Golden Land
Send a message via AIM to AuraTwilight Send a message via MSN to AuraTwilight
That, and of course he'd feel like he has no right to interfere with the George/Shannon romance after six years of no contact, and he'd probably lie about the extent of how much he moved on so that Shannon doesn't feel obligated or anything.
__________________
When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531
AuraTwilight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-01-15, 16:47   Link #21509
Used Can
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
He did feel quite sad when he learned about George and Shannon's relationship. Well, this was shown on EP7's Tea Party, though.
__________________
"The name is Tin; Used is just an alias. I'm everything Shoe Box would like to be." - Used Can of the Aluminium Kingdom
Used Can is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-01-15, 16:47   Link #21510
pikajens
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
So if we establish that Battler's sin is him forgetting his love of Shannon, let's think of what would of happened if Battler didn't forget, which would probably be the marriage of Battler and Shannon. If Shannon does know where the gold is, it is probable that she'd share this info with Battler. Battler would likely share the info with his family, and decide what to do with it, (no idea what he would do with it). When this happens, the culprit's motive should be eliminated.

The problem is that several people's motives are eliminated if it is just "lol gold". George has the most prominent motive which doesn't involve gold, which is to get Shannon to love him, but it is not entirely eliminated if Shannon marries Battler. (He can still kill everyone who opposes him and force Shannon to marry him, though she'll likely refuse)

After this line of logic though I'm stuck. The only theory that makes sense to me is Kyrie killing because she wants a better life for Ange, but the entire idea of Kyrie as a culprit seems to be a way for Bern to troll Ange.
pikajens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-01-15, 16:49   Link #21511
Nontype
CONTRACTS
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Ok, but one last question after all this. Who was Claire Bernadus?
Nontype is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-01-15, 17:04   Link #21512
Used Can
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
To be honest, I don't think it's just "LOL Gold". In fact, this is why I think Battler being Kyrie's son is so important. Just see Kyrie's reaction when Rudolph told her the truth about Battler's birth. I think she simply just didn't care any more, and probably thought "fuck it, at least I can have that gold".

Something I find really funny, is that Rudolph's secret (the one he had to tell Kyrie and Battler) was brought up in the first story, which was supposedly written by Yasu. How would she know about that?

I believe Rudolph told Kyrie about Battler before the family conference. In addition, as it has already been theorised, Yasu had made her "mystery story" plan, and this, I believe was exploited by Kyrie. Furthermore, I don't think Kyrie just went without a plan. I believe she had already approached Yasu, and she probably threatened her by saying she'd kill Battler if she didn't cooperate. Whether this happened before Yasu had told her plan to all the adults or before (Kyrie could have figured out several things beforehand), I don't think it matters much.

I believe George could have been an accomplice. There are several things like him always setting up the rose, his constant meetings with Shannon, and several other things like the supposedly parlour door in EP1, or the meeting in the chapel in EP2, him going to the mansion without anyone noticing in EP3, and the weird thing with Jessica in EP4. I think him joining would also give a reason for Eva not to want to disclose the truth, because this way she wouldn't only be protecting Ange, but her son as well.

Whether Rudolph joined or not, I don't know. However, I wouldn't be surprised if did out of guilt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nontype View Post
Ok, but one last question after all this. Who was Claire Bernadus?
It's a reference to Bernard of Clairvaux, who's the guy who came up with the idea of different levels of hell, if I remember correctly, and in the Divine Comedy, he's one of the people who guided Dante.

In Umineko, this is one of the identities taken by Yasu, and her shape as that of the first witch Yasu saw herself as.
__________________
"The name is Tin; Used is just an alias. I'm everything Shoe Box would like to be." - Used Can of the Aluminium Kingdom
Used Can is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-01-16, 01:27   Link #21513
CainSonozaki
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
My take on battlers "sin"

Spoiler for Sin:
__________________
"Without love it can't be seen.
With love there will be falsehood.
With falsehood comes belief.
Right now the time where magic advents.
I am Beatrice-sama! Ahaha"
CainSonozaki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-01-16, 02:47   Link #21514
Kirroha
Just... disturbed.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by CainSonozaki View Post
My take on battlers "sin"

Spoiler for Sin:
Gosh I hated that side of George that's so clingy and insecure.
Kirroha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-01-16, 04:52   Link #21515
AuraTwilight
The True Culprit
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The Golden Land
Send a message via AIM to AuraTwilight Send a message via MSN to AuraTwilight
Quote:
Originally Posted by CainSonozaki View Post
My take on battlers "sin"

Spoiler for Sin:
I don't see how we can possibly blame that on Battler. Yasuda isn't THAT out of touch with reality.
__________________
When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531
AuraTwilight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-01-16, 15:49   Link #21516
Renall
BUY MY BOOK!!!
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Battler's sin was remembering. Because he did it.

Why else is Tohya afraid of him? It's freakin' Seagull Club.

EDIT: To extend upon this idea, what Battler realizes at the end of ep5 is that he completely understands Beatrice's writing style, and thus that she is scapegoating herself. However, he also realizes the MO of the killer as presented in the various closed rooms can only match a person with an incredibly analytical mind and an intense background in mysteries. Yasu is eliminated as a culprit in his mind because she's scapegoating herself which means she didn't do it... which only leaves a single possible person: Battler himself.

Culprits: Battler, Yasu; Yasu attempts to kill herself out of guilt and take Battler with her, but he survives.
Accomplices: Nanjo, Kumasawa, Genji; all killed when convenient.

I could just be making all of this up though.
__________________
Redaction of the Golden Witch
I submit that a murder was committed in 1996.
This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986.
This story is a redacted confession.

Blog (VN DL) - YouTube Playlists
Battler Solves The Logic Error
Renall is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-01-16, 16:23   Link #21517
CrystalStarlight95
Miss Kimi
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Residing as the 18th guest of Rokkenjima
Age: 18
Well, damn, Renall, what if THAT was the truth..?

Ryukishi: Uh oh, I think AnimeSuki is onto me!! D:
__________________
(Colored over a Higurashi manga scan. Yes, I suck .-.)

"Were you not listening, Kimi-chan? Knox's 7th: It is forbidden for the detective to be the culprit."
CrystalStarlight95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-01-16, 17:44   Link #21518
RockReborn
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Classified
Is it wrong that I find an answer I literally dreamt up the other night more satisfying than the actual ending? Even if Gohda was the ultimate culprit in a serious manner?

Spoiler for My dream:


...yeah...
RockReborn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-01-16, 17:55   Link #21519
Marion
The Great Dine
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirroha View Post
Pretty sure George had hidden the letter. Even after coming back after 6 years, Battler still had feelings for Shannon and felt jealous when he saw George and Shannon together. With that seen, it's hard to believe Battler didn't give Shannon a letter. Besides, George apparently already knew about Battler and Shannon's relationship, but still acted innocent when the letters were passed, and also kept insisting to shannon that battler will never return.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrystalStarlight95 View Post
Battler probably knows he said bye to her and "promised" to come back, but maybe it was just a joke on his part? He was only 13 when he said it, or he was probably just so shy he said it to sound adult or something.
Battler maybe just forgot the love. George is such an ass, he maybe sent letters to Battler saying, "Oh ya, Shannon's doing great without you~ " just to sabatoge the relationship more(LOL sorry I dunno if they ever had contact, just kidding)

I hate George, if only he gave Shannon the darn letter, it would've probably changed things D:<
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumy View Post
I don't think Battler would feel the need to write letters to everyone in his family, knowing they'd be handed to them on Rokkenjima, and decide to specifically not write to the girl he liked a lot back then... who's also living on that island.

Judging from George's dialogue when he hands Shannon the empty bag, and him mentioning again and again that Battler probably won't return, and the whole envy talk in EP7... well, at least it has been established in EP1-6 that George will go to great lengths to have Shannon for himself.

Because Shannon never replied, Battler probably thought she had lost interest and started to more or less forget about her after a while too.
Here is my problem with the "George hiding the letter" theory.

Shannon was watching the entire time he was handing out the letters. There is no way she would have missed George taking two letters and stuffing it into his pocket and no way she wouldn't have been suspicious. The only one who could have taken it was the person who had the envelope before Shannon ever saw it, which was Kyrie. Kyrie has no reason to take the letter because she doesn't even care about Battler and what he does with his life.

Second of all, allow me to refer you to this quote. One Battler said in EP 3 maybe ten minutes after Shannon repeated the '< See you again>' line.

Quote:
Jessica: "What about you, Battler? Have you gotten a girlfrie-nd?"
Battler: "Hmm, I wonder. There's a lot of girls that I play with. But there is no 'only one'. ......I'm just like a kid. I think it's more fun to be noisy with a large group of people than being alone with one person."
Battler considered Shannon, at most, a crush. Do you honestly believe he was going to take her off the island if Asumu didn't die? He would only be thirteen years old.

Along with that, it's entirely possible he forgot to write a letter. It had been three years and a lot happened. His mother died, he suddenly had a sister, he found out his father was having an affair, so yes it's possible with all those things piling up at once for his mind to slip up in remembering a girl he met only once a year. Battler's memory alone isn't all that amazing if you recall too.

Sorry, but I can't stand people making George out to be such a bad guy. Yes he liked Shannon, but I don't think he would go to such lengths. And even if he did, there's no way she couldn't have noticed if she was watching the letters being handed out the entire time.
__________________

Sig by nocco
Marion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-01-16, 18:30   Link #21520
Mcjon01
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marion View Post
Yes he liked Shannon, but I don't think he would go to such lengths.
I really have no trouble believing that George "Kill Everyone For Our Love" Ushiromiya would go to such lengths to make sure he has Shannon all to himself. And it's not like that scene is terribly descriptive; for all we know George had his back to Shannon at some point, or at least some opportunity to pull some sleight of hand. He was moving around from person to person passing them out, after all.
Mcjon01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:58.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
We use Silk.