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Old 2011-01-16, 22:27   Link #1
Hunter
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Madoka Magica - Spoilers & Speculation

The purpose of this thread is to allow free discussion of theories and speculation of the Madoka Magica anime series, but be warned since it may contain unmarked spoilers. Having a central location may help focus the discussion instead of spreading speculation over the various episode discussion threads.

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Old 2011-01-17, 08:49   Link #2
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MeisterBabylon casually mentioned about the stench of Madoff regarding Kyubey, and I do think it is a valid line of consideration...

I am actually not willing to discount Kyubey's work as that of a Ponzi scheme. For that it is entirely possible that Kyubey in fact only pays returns to separate contract holders and not from any genuine power to grant true miracle... rather, the very wish granting comes from the amount of work that the magical girls have put forth or actual genuine "miracles" done by other magical girls. The ROI that Kyubey has tabled cannot be matched by anyone else...

which of course raises the alarm bell of a need for ever-increasing flow of power or deeds by magical girls to maintain this scheme. Those who fell victim will have no recourse.

Generally speaking, the danger from Ponzi scheme occurs from the fact that rational, able and well-off people are the most vulnerable, and they in turn affect their clients who entrust them to make sound decisions for them. The level of charisma... attraction that Kyubey possesses is augmented greatly with existing clients such as that of Mami 'vouching' for the magician actually makes me seriously wonder at the caliber of those that might have fallen under this Ponzi scheme, if Kyubey indeed practices this infamous self-propagating myth.
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Last edited by panzerfan; 2011-01-17 at 09:00.
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Old 2011-01-17, 15:35   Link #3
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As much as appearance link Grief Seeds and Soul Gems (which can only mean shared magical origin), we still have no idea what would be Kyuubey'd gain.

We did not see a transfer of energy between GS and SG, but a transfer of some kind of darkness. While Kyuubey might pass his darkness on magical girls, would he need to? Could he not just pass his darkness onto non-magicals in a mmaner of a witch?

PS: Maybe the whole talk about emotions was not just silly? The wich actually pushed its inner negative feeling into that salary woman?
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Old 2011-01-18, 16:26   Link #4
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There are _alot_ of direct references to Goethe's Faust. There, Faust (Madoka) meets a poodle (Kyubey), who is offering the fulfillment of any wish.

Well, in Faust, the poodle turns out to be Mephisto - the devil.

Draw your own conclusions ^_^;
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Old 2011-01-18, 17:22   Link #5
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About Faust being Madoka... the more sobering thought would be that she's Gretchen, here being offered a deal by Kyubey Mephistopheles, with Homura Faust, end of the First Part mentally.
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Last edited by panzerfan; 2011-01-18 at 17:48.
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Old 2011-01-18, 19:13   Link #6
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Certainly not. Madoka is going to be a central active player, Gretchen was only a tool and victim. Except for the gender I don't see any resemblance at all, sorry.

No, Madoka (along with all other Magical Girls) has the role of Faust. SHE is offered the contract.
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Old 2011-01-18, 20:05   Link #7
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Alas, I was on the line of thought that the tragedy of Gretchen would be the thing that Homura has hinted at. This has led me to dwell on the subject and put the question of the likelihood that Gretchen be presented the Faustian deal, instead of having Gretchen deemed saved by the heavens when encountered with Mephistopheles in that prison.

If parallel is what you ask, then I may only answer with a hypothetical certainty. That Homura the Faust would led Gretchen the Madoka to put her family to ruination and head her to the path of being sentence to death due to lust... and be driven to save Gretchen out of pity instead of love...

Mind you, assuming if the story of Madoka begins at the point where "Gretchen" in the context of Madoka has already been judged as saved by the Heavens, this would fall apart.
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Old 2011-01-19, 10:51   Link #8
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Hmm, in the first episode, the stuffed animal told Madoka "You have the ability to reject despair". This is presumably the despair that is spread by the witches. Perhaps it means those with the potential to be magical girls are those who can resist the witches' effects.

However, the family clearly wouldn't be immune at all. The magical girls hunt the witches but why not the witches also target the magical girls and their families? Even just pure despair being poured out on the family could cause major issues (understatement).

If a magical girl, as often suspected, can turn into a witch, then this could be one avenue it could come about.


Perhaps Mami isn't a witch only because she snapped a bit and thus has that near-perpetual disturbed smile on her face.
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Old 2011-01-19, 11:43   Link #9
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Practically everyone's been putting money on Kyubei being evil and screwing over the magical girls. But I wondered, what if he wasn't completely evil, what possibilities would be opened up?
The first thing is, why is a wish needed before a contract? Why not just give the girl a Soul Gem and let her go witch hunting?
So I thought, what if it's the Soul Gem that manifests the wish and maintains its existence? So the Gem will always be gradually dimming to keep the wish going, and the magical girl will have to hunt witches to keep the Gem lit. If the light dies, the wish goes with, forever.

Another thing, unless it's a mistranslation, note that Mami said "sometimes a witch leaves behind a Grief Seed after being defeated." Which mean there's a possibility of walking away from a victory empty handed, with a dimmer Soul Gem. Net loss.

Thoughts?
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Old 2011-01-19, 12:15   Link #10
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So there's been a lot of speculation about Sayaka...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishbait View Post
Things aren't looking good for Sayaka lol...

There are some rather disturbing things in the very opening of the series that might hint towards her role in the show.

Spoiler for Episode 1 pictures:
You know I've been looking at these images more and I've decided I just don't buy it.
Spoiler for Sayaka's defense:
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Old 2011-01-19, 12:31   Link #11
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Here's a sequence of thoughts - beginning from "fairly obvious" down to "blatant speculation".

1) Madoka and Homura have met before in the past - they know each other (99%)

Fairly obvious. Homura knows Madoka, and it's very clear that she's going to great lengths to discourage _Madoka_ from becoming a Magical Girl. She clearly doesn't care if Sayaka becomes one. Homura knows her way around school, and she dislikes Madoka calling her "Akemi-san". They have a joint past - but obviously Madoka doesn't know her. This poses the question: Why not?

Madoka dreamed about Homura right before meeting her. The common factor here was Kyubey, who tried to "recruit" Madoka in her dream by showing a pitiful Homura losing a hopeless fight. Therefore, it's exceptionally likely that their connection from the past had something to do with the Magical Girl business.

2) Madoka has been a Magical Girl in the past (66%)

The most likely explanation I can see is that Madoka's joint past with Homura revolves around being a Magical Girl. And I'll go one step further:

3) Madoka's wish as a Magical Girl has been for a great mother and a loving family (50%)

This is a pure speculation now, but it's one that I give an even money bet. Her family is so sugar-sweet-perfect that it feels fake to me. Artificia. Unnatural. If this entire setup had been genuine, why would she want to become a Magical Girl, all warnings notwithstanding?

4) Homura's wish as a Magical Girl was for Madoka to STOP being a Magical Girl (20%)

While I consider it highly likely that Madoka _was_ a Magical Girl, she obviously is no Magical Girl now. And since I'm 99% sure that you can't simply stop being a Magical Girl on your own decision, something drastic must have happened to remove her from the job.

Here, I suspect that it's been Homura's doing. She saw that Madoka was straining and suffering as MG, and she's been taking it upon her to take things upon herself to save her friend. This would not only explain how Madoka got out, it also explains why she's trying so hard to make sure that Madoka does NOT "reenlist" again. She sacrificed herself to let Madoka live her happy life with the family she wished for - she should NOT make the same mistake again.

So, as a pure unsubstantiated speculation, I suspect that Homura and Madoka were close friends in the past while they were normal. Maybe they were living together in an orphanage without parents, and Madoka was suffering under it. So she gave in to Kyubey's temptation to become a MG in exchange for the miracle of having a loving family. But being a MG made her suffer under the system, so Homura jumped in to "save" Madoka, push her out, and take the burden upon her. And after these two miracles, Kyubey is trying to drag Madoka back in - prompting Homura to try to kill him to prevent this from happening.

5) Extremely blatant pure speculation guess: Madoka's eventual miracle wish will be a reset. (5%)

I'd suspect that Madoka will somehow jump in again without voicing a clear wish. Which will eventually be used to break the system.

So, some detail flags I'd be looking for:

- Does Homura have parents (my guess is no)
- Clues on what was Homura's wish (when Madoka asked, she didn't answer but look very sad)
- Clues about a possible past of Madoka WITHOUT family
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Old 2011-01-19, 12:49   Link #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Homura's wish as a Magical Girl was for Madoka to STOP being a Magical Girl (20%)
Since it's stated that you have to make a wish before becoming a magical girl, this would mean she retired Madoka as her first act as a magical girl. And if it's true that the contract keeps the wish in existence (still only pure speculation at this point) Madoka would be unlikely take Homura's action kindly.
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Old 2011-01-19, 12:59   Link #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
Practically everyone's been putting money on Kyubei being evil and screwing over the magical girls. But I wondered, what if he wasn't completely evil, what possibilities would be opened up?
The first thing is, why is a wish needed before a contract? Why not just give the girl a Soul Gem and let her go witch hunting?
So I thought, what if it's the Soul Gem that manifests the wish and maintains its existence? So the Gem will always be gradually dimming to keep the wish going, and the magical girl will have to hunt witches to keep the Gem lit. If the light dies, the wish goes with, forever.

Another thing, unless it's a mistranslation, note that Mami said "sometimes a witch leaves behind a Grief Seed after being defeated." Which mean there's a possibility of walking away from a victory empty handed, with a dimmer Soul Gem. Net loss.

Thoughts?
Assuming Kyuube isn't evil, that seems possible. Though if he really isn't evil, then he and Mami should have no reason to conceal that information from Madoka and Sayaka.

My speculation

I think the Soul Gem represents exactly what it says though: the soul of the bearer. If it becomes completely dark, the bearer turns into a witch. My guess is that Kyuube can only eat (or whatever else he does with it) souls if they become tainted. Kyuube's magic is demonic, so using it means corrupting your own soul. You can only get rid of this corruption by dumping it on somebody else. I also suspect that pure-hearted girl like Madoka and Sayaka are more attractive to Kyuube. Either because these souls end up being more powerful once tainted, or simply because...



Yes, I'm in the Kyuube is evil camp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
3) Madoka's wish as a Magical Girl has been for a great mother and a loving family (50%)

This is a pure speculation now, but it's one that I give an even money bet. Her family is so sugar-sweet-perfect that it feels fake to me. Artificia. Unnatural. If this entire setup had been genuine, why would she want to become a Magical Girl, all warnings notwithstanding?

4) Homura's wish as a Magical Girl was for Madoka to STOP being a Magical Girl (20%)

While I consider it highly likely that Madoka _was_ a Magical Girl, she obviously is no Magical Girl now. And since I'm 99% sure that you can't simply stop being a Magical Girl on your own decision, something drastic must have happened to remove her from the job.

Here, I suspect that it's been Homura's doing. She saw that Madoka was straining and suffering as MG, and she's been taking it upon her to take things upon herself to save her friend. This would not only explain how Madoka got out, it also explains why she's trying so hard to make sure that Madoka does NOT "reenlist" again. She sacrificed herself to let Madoka live her happy life with the family she wished for - she should NOT make the same mistake again.

So, as a pure unsubstantiated speculation, I suspect that Homura and Madoka were close friends in the past while they were normal. Maybe they were living together in an orphanage without parents, and Madoka was suffering under it. So she gave in to Kyubey's temptation to become a MG in exchange for the miracle of having a loving family. But being a MG made her suffer under the system, so Homura jumped in to "save" Madoka, push her out, and take the burden upon her. And after these two miracles, Kyubey is trying to drag Madoka back in - prompting Homura to try to kill him to prevent this from happening.

5) Extremely blatant pure speculation guess: Madoka's eventual miracle wish will be a reset. (5%)

I'd suspect that Madoka will somehow jump in again without voicing a clear wish. Which will eventually be used to break the system.

So, some detail flags I'd be looking for:

- Does Homura have parents (my guess is no)
- Clues on what was Homura's wish (when Madoka asked, she didn't answer but look very sad)
- Clues about a possible past of Madoka WITHOUT family
Interesting ideas, they are pretty different from most speculations, even if there are some similarities. Your last speculation, for example, is what most people -including me- think Homura did in a previous timeline.

A thought: If Homura's wish was for Madoka to stop being a magical girl, then isn't Kyuube breaking the contract by trying to turn Madoka into a magical girl again? I'm not sure he can do that. Assuming what you say is true, then he's totally screwed Homerun over.
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Old 2011-01-19, 14:08   Link #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post

3) Madoka's wish as a Magical Girl has been for a great mother and a loving family (50%)

This is a pure speculation now, but it's one that I give an even money bet. Her family is so sugar-sweet-perfect that it feels fake to me.
Mentar, there are loads of real life families just as good as (if not better than) Madoka's.

Are you saying that all those real life families are "artificial" and "unnatural"?

Her mother is a decent working mom, and her father is a decent stay-at-home dad. They're just good, decent parents. No more, no less.

I've known and met many people that are parents that are like that in my life. I dare say that my own parents are like that, except my dad also worked outside the home.
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Old 2011-01-19, 15:34   Link #15
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Since it's stated that you have to make a wish before becoming a magical girl, this would mean she retired Madoka as her first act as a magical girl.
Not quite - the anime is very vague here. "The wish becomes the soul gem", and you can wish for anything. What if the wish is a one-shot request which can be granted? I don't remember any clause like "lasts as long as you're a good MG".

And yes, I'd consider Homura fully capable to shoulder the burden for someone dear to her.

Quote:
And if it's true that the contract keeps the wish in existence (still only pure speculation at this point) Madoka would be unlikely take Homura's action kindly.
Why that? At the moment she doesn't even KNOW about it.

Being a MG is obviously a nasty, nasty, NASTY business. Madoka isn't cut out to kill other MGs (which is obviously fairly commonplace - see how Mami implied that she'd kill Homura in other situations). She'd definitely suffer. And if Homura as close/best friend would see her like that, I believe she'd go for it. Homura is much better suited to last in the MG twilight.
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Old 2011-01-19, 15:37   Link #16
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A thought: If Homura's wish was for Madoka to stop being a magical girl, then isn't Kyuube breaking the contract by trying to turn Madoka into a magical girl again? I'm not sure he can do that. Assuming what you say is true, then he's totally screwed Homerun over.
Why? He fulfilled Homura's wish - she's no MG anymore. Noone said that she couldn't want to become a MG again - he's not forcing her, merely tempting her. In the Faust analogy, Kyubey is the devil, you know...

And besides, I'm betting dollars to donuts that becoming a MG screws all of them over in a much bigger way already than THAT.
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Old 2011-01-19, 15:39   Link #17
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Madoka isn't cut out to kill other MGs (which is obviously fairly commonplace - see how Mami implied that she'd kill Homura in other situations)..
Le sigh. No Mami said nothing of the sorts.
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Old 2011-01-19, 15:41   Link #18
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Mentar, there are loads of real life families just as good as (if not better than) Madoka's.

Are you saying that all those real life families are "artificial" and "unnatural"?
I never said that anywhere, did I? I'm referring to how sweet/loving/caring/cute everything is pictured. It's the "how", the undertones. I may be wrong, but I find this family suspect.

Add to it those small pieces which make you go "hmm". Like her mom repeating Kyubey's line of "It's all over when you give up". Like the shot of Kyubey watching when her mom explained her vocational schemes.

Call it a hunch, and let's wait and see, okay?
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Old 2011-01-19, 15:46   Link #19
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Quote:
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Le sigh. No Mami said nothing of the sorts.
Excuse me?

Episode 1, timecode 22:43 (gg release): "You don't seem to understand, huh? What I really mean is I won't kill you this time".

If that's no direct threat, then what is?
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Old 2011-01-19, 15:54   Link #20
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Excuse me?

Episode 1, timecode 22:43 (gg release): "You don't seem to understand, huh? What I really mean is I won't kill you this time".

If that's no direct threat, then what is?
While I agree with you quite a lot, I have to point out that this was mistranslation, later corrected by the same fansub in a v2.

""You don't seem to understand, huh? What I mean is that I'll overlook what you did this time". Or something like that... it still implies that Mami would have attacked Homura had the latter tried to kill Kyuubey again though.
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