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Old 2011-01-17, 17:13   Link #41
Hooves
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Just finished watching how they plan to make the AI in Shogun Total War 2 work and I must say for myself, that it works out in itself. We no longer have the simple-minded AI that attacks 1 side of the wall/fortress like we did in Medieval Total War 2 and Rome Total War. They also use the forest to a good use (from what I saw) well basically they plan to make the AI more.... Complicated to predict then games like Napoleon Total War, and Empire Total War in terms of using ranged people.

Siege AI besides attacking more then 1 side of the wall is a little more cautious of advancing. Since they tend to take towers that shoot at their men first before proceeding to take your base. Overall I like it.
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Old 2011-01-17, 18:58   Link #42
SoldierOfDarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
How about Total War: China?
The Three Kingdom period is something the japanese adore about the most in Chinese history and it also has its fair share of river battles as well (Battle of Red cliff).

However, I think CA might stick with Shogun, Rome, Medieval, and Empire eras.

Quote:
Just finished watching how they plan to make the AI in Shogun Total War 2 work and I must say for myself, that it works out in itself. We no longer have the simple-minded AI that attacks 1 side of the wall/fortress like we did in Medieval Total War 2 and Rome Total War. They also use the forest to a good use (from what I saw) well basically they plan to make the AI more.... Complicated to predict then games like Napoleon Total War, and Empire Total War in terms of using ranged people.

Siege AI besides attacking more then 1 side of the wall is a little more cautious of advancing. Since they tend to take towers that shoot at their men first before proceeding to take your base. Overall I like it.
Some would disagree with you but the only way to go is up and there have been improvements. Can't wait to see all of this carried over to Rome.
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Old 2011-01-17, 19:01   Link #43
Hooves
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Some would disagree with you but the only way to go is up and there have been improvements. Can't wait to see all of this carried over to Rome.
I could understand fully if people disagree with me, but I myself find the AI development to casually increase with every new Total War game that has released. (Well... Empire Total War and Napoleon Total War were nothing really in terms of improvement..) but just seeing this video is giving me hope that the creators are actually making the AI worth a challenge in strategy. But that is just battles... Now to see how the campaign functions..
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Old 2011-01-17, 19:43   Link #44
yezhanquan
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I'm probably asking for the moon, but imagine campaign functions ala Europa Universalis III? On another note, CA should have support like that. 4 expansions? Awesome (even if it's by bits and pieces).
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Old 2011-01-17, 23:58   Link #45
David Watts
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Have they made any videos showing how the game looks?
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Old 2011-01-18, 00:10   Link #46
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Originally Posted by David Watts View Post
Have they made any videos showing how the game looks?
If you want to see battles involved with the looks, I can provide you battle scenes, but there has been nothing about how the campaign will look like yet.
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Old 2011-01-18, 07:03   Link #47
lightbringer
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You can see the campaign map partially in that ninja assassination video, among others.
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Old 2011-01-18, 16:52   Link #48
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Originally Posted by lightbringer View Post
You can see the campaign map partially in that ninja assassination video, among others.
Well they are sneak peaks at how the campaign map looks overall, but I was interested in seeing how the campaign will function.
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Old 2011-01-19, 07:13   Link #49
lightbringer
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You can see many of the new functions, like experience points and such, in this video.
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Old 2011-01-19, 20:04   Link #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightbringer View Post
You can see many of the new functions, like experience points and such, in this video.
Arigatou for the video Love that they are keeping the "Empire-Total War" Diplomacy system instead of sending out Diplomats that take hours to finally reach their destination, as well as the naval combat. Also love that MMO feeling of experience points on your generals that make them more valuable now instead of just there for boosting morale.
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Old 2011-01-19, 21:46   Link #51
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well it looks great
though i liked how you moved your people about in the first game
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Old 2011-01-20, 14:33   Link #52
lightbringer
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I liked the "paper scroll", board-game kind of feeling of the original map also, but they are definitely making progress on the campaign map. Now if only they would be as committed to post-release support, I would have nothing to complain about.

Hooves, generals are useful for more than just boosting morale. A charge from a general unit at the right time from the right angle can make the entire enemy line break up and flee. But personalizing them with experience where you pick the specialization is definitely cool... kind of reminds me of Civ IV. They just need to stay alive long enough for this to matter. I am hoping for at least the option of four turns per year.
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Old 2011-01-20, 15:06   Link #53
Kaze
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooves View Post
Just finished watching how they plan to make the AI in Shogun Total War 2 work and I must say for myself, that it works out in itself. We no longer have the simple-minded AI that attacks 1 side of the wall/fortress like we did in Medieval Total War 2 and Rome Total War. They also use the forest to a good use (from what I saw) well basically they plan to make the AI more.... Complicated to predict then games like Napoleon Total War, and Empire Total War in terms of using ranged people.

Siege AI besides attacking more then 1 side of the wall is a little more cautious of advancing. Since they tend to take towers that shoot at their men first before proceeding to take your base. Overall I like it.
Woah, where did you see this?
Got a link somewhere?

Looking forward to see the AI get improved.

Empire and Napoleon total war was total war alright, especially if EVERY god damn AI in the GAME declares war on you for NO reason

I mean, I was playing as the Knights of St. John (Malta) and even INDIA and the friggin' NATIVES in Canada were declaring war on me.
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Old 2011-01-20, 15:20   Link #54
Hooves
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Originally Posted by Kaze View Post
Woah, where did you see this?
Got a link somewhere?

Looking forward to see the AI get improved.
I've only seen how they improve in a battle and siege type of situation, not sure on the diplomacy yet. I don't believe they ever show how the AI works in trailers based on campaign diplomacy dont they? If you want to see a siege and a battlefield video on how they plan to make the AI play as, then I can provide one.

Quote:
Empire and Napoleon total war was total war alright, especially if EVERY god damn AI in the GAME declares war on you for NO reason

I mean, I was playing as the Knights of St. John (Malta) and even INDIA and the friggin' NATIVES in Canada were declaring war on me.
Well atleast not specifically "all" the AI are declaring war at you all at once

Quote:
Originally Posted by lightbringer View Post
Hooves, generals are useful for more than just boosting morale. A charge from a general unit at the right time from the right angle can make the entire enemy line break up and flee. But personalizing them with experience where you pick the specialization is definitely cool... kind of reminds me of Civ IV. They just need to stay alive long enough for this to matter. I am hoping for at least the option of four turns per year.
I was referring to how they used generals during Empire and Napoleon Total War where they are completely useless compared to what the generals were like during Rome and Medieval 2 Total War. I'm going to guess generals are back at top strength like they used to again? But since generals are going to be more valuable then what they used to in all Total War games. I'm probably going to take the defensive when I decide what to do with my general.
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Old 2011-01-20, 20:05   Link #55
lightbringer
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Gunpowder will be marginal, at least in the initial stages, so I'm guessing a heavy cavalry charge from a general unit will be serious business like it was in Rome/M2. Come to think of it, in Empire I don't remember using generals all that much, especially since I had to autoresolve so often due to my poor hardware lol.
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Old 2011-01-29, 20:35   Link #56
Hooves
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaze View Post
Woah, where did you see this?
Got a link somewhere?

Looking forward to see the AI get improved.

Empire and Napoleon total war was total war alright, especially if EVERY god damn AI in the GAME declares war on you for NO reason

I mean, I was playing as the Knights of St. John (Malta) and even INDIA and the friggin' NATIVES in Canada were declaring war on me.
I think I can explain the AI diplomacy in Rome, Medieval 2, Empire, and Napoleon, but not quite sure if I can explain on Medieval, and Shogun. But here goes

Spoiler for Rome + Medieval 2:


Spoiler for Empire + Napoleon:


So all we can hope for is if they can fix the stubborn AI from Medieval 2 and Empire... But everything else is pretty set.
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Last edited by Hooves; 2011-01-29 at 20:46.
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Old 2011-01-30, 01:12   Link #57
SoldierOfDarkness
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Iin Empire actually if you expanded piece by piece then the expansion penalty will not be as severe.

The penalty decreases over time so if you just captured the one province and held onto it, eventually the penalty will decrease.

There are ways around it and in some cases it depends on your faction and what's happening as well. If you want a more regular campaign then Normal is a bit more tame.
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Old 2011-01-30, 11:05   Link #58
Hooves
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Iin Empire actually if you expanded piece by piece then the expansion penalty will not be as severe.

The penalty decreases over time so if you just captured the one province and held onto it, eventually the penalty will decrease.

There are ways around it and in some cases it depends on your faction and what's happening as well. If you want a more regular campaign then Normal is a bit more tame.
Well either way, the expansion penalty will eventually increase as your ambition and power grows over the game, and you'll find yourself hostile with everyone. But if you want to take things very slowly and wait till the penalty is down then you won't make the time limit if you are playing a long campaign.
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Old 2011-01-31, 03:40   Link #59
Irenicus
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I know there are algorithms involved that could be made sense of if you really try. But honestly now, the weakest point in Total War games have always been the AI and the Diplomacy. They're always, always inexcusably flawed.

I mean, I've known that Firaxis fans complain about Civilization AI at Deity level and Paradox fans complain about AI in Paradox games, but they're just bitching in comparison to Total War's Campaign AI and Diplomacy.

The original Shogun, ironically enough, was the least hampered by this issue. A game simulating 19th century Europe needs working diplomacy -- an era of great powers mean an era of the balance of powers, and what balance of powers means is that every conflict must be followed by negotiations, interventions, resolution of conflicting interests. A surrendered Paris doesn't mean Germany could just declare France its protectorate. Demands made through battlefield triumphs were regularly moderated when fellow great powers raised their objections. Empire Total War didn't even try. On the other hand, the Sengoku Era -- admittedly with its own intricacies not simulated in Shogun -- was one which, at least, if you really did crush your enemy beneath your steel-clad feet, take his head, send his armies running and burn his castle-towns, sure you won. Now keep what you have and guard it against the next challenger.

Which means that a flawed diplomacy whereby a trusted AI ally backstabs you at first opportunity isn't so horribly off-putting, because that's what the warlords of the Sengoku really did. The nation-states of the 19th century played a very very different game, so when Russia declares on your weak little Prussia at the start of turn 1 and the British gangs you up immersion is irrecoverably lost (the real case would have been the Royal Navy bombarding St. Petersburg and then negotiating a status quo ante bellum; like, oh, the real life Crimean War). Every other Total War game is set in the times between these two extremes, and the campaign AI generally failed in all of them.

Battle AI, yeah it's flawed, but that's where tangible improvements are much easier to make, and the spectacular graphics helped.
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Old 2011-01-31, 17:04   Link #60
Hooves
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You practically nailed the entire AI and diplomacy issue Irenicus
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