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Old 2011-01-21, 19:12   Link #2041
DragoZERO
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Originally Posted by frubam View Post
I'll concur with this as well. They just seemed too eager to tell Yuki and everyone else about the tape. Normally, even if Tooru was being a manipulative douche, the guys would snicker and smirk at Yuki, maybe even try her themselves, but would NEVER tell her right off the bat about it on the first day. It's just too darn fishy.
Well.. do you expect those type of guys to keep their mouths shut about it?

I wonder what happened to that video tape.
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Old 2011-01-21, 19:37   Link #2042
Bonta Kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
Well.. do you expect those type of guys to keep their mouths shut about it?
Yea I don't see em keeping a lid on something like a sex vid, even if they wanted to try to give her go, blackmail would have been the most effective method.

This whole deal is abit meh, cause I can't lose sight that they are young teenagers so "knowing better" doesn't always apply but I can't help but think it should.
Yuki falling for the guilt trip rather easily, at least say "ok after school at my/your place, whats the damn rush!?"
Touru does have his side of the story but I feel too many things go against him and no way in hell the video cam is a coincidence.
Biggest factor going against Touru atm is the bet, if he really did take the money for bet then he's scum whether or not he knew about the video cam.

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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
I wonder what happened to that video tape.
I suspect it could still be doing rounds somewhere, something like that would spread like wild fire.
Altho it could be played that after Touru found out about it(if he didn't know) went to get it rid of it.
but then if the guys didn't have a copy of it I'd paint them as huge dumb f***s for not cause lets be fair, you would.
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Old 2011-01-21, 19:52   Link #2043
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drago View Post
Well.. do you expect those type of guys to keep their mouths shut about it?
Well I certainly don't expect them to announce it to EVERYONE and then the girl in question. Maybe to just the guys I could see, but not be like "Hey everyone, Yuki gave up the box to Tooru!!!" in big headline caps. There was no buildup(like getting looked at by random schoolmates, talking behind her back, etc) or anything, just BAM, and the whole school knows your sexual exploits. To me, rather than this being the result of Tooru eagerly trying to get his reward, it seems to me that somebody wanted to ruin Tooru's reputation. Or maybe Yuki scorned the guy who was showing it and wanted to pay her back for liking someone else.

On a side note, if Tooru goes to a prep school in Tokyo, it's possible his parent(s) are well-to-do. If that's the case, why would he need money?
Quote:
I wonder what happened to that video tape.
Spoiler for NTR dj:
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Old 2011-01-21, 19:56   Link #2044
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lol, i stopped reading this Manga a long time ago (this Manga is way to emo)and then today I came across the latest chapter and I just read it for the lulz.. and I get this! wahahahaha! Awesome! it's cliche as fu*k, but awesome in this particular manga.

any interesting cases of otaku-rage yet?
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Old 2011-01-21, 20:11   Link #2045
Rainrir
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Originally Posted by frubam View Post
Well I certainly don't expect them to announce it to EVERYONE and then the girl in question. Maybe to just the guys I could see, but not be like "Hey everyone, Yuki gave up the box to Tooru!!!" in big headline caps. There was no buildup(like getting looked at by random schoolmates, talking behind her back, etc) or anything, just BAM, and the whole school knows your sexual exploits. To me, rather than this being the result of Tooru eagerly trying to get his reward, it seems to me that somebody wanted to ruin Tooru's reputation. Or maybe Yuki scorned the guy who was showing it and wanted to pay her back for liking someone else.

On a side note, if Tooru goes to a prep school in Tokyo, it's possible his parent(s) are well-to-do. If that's the case, why would he need money?

Spoiler for NTR dj:
That is possible. Except Yuki's dad is very rich and possibly very influential. He can make the boys "disappear" if he exterted himself to. Yuki is no longer dumb enough to give sex just like that, after being burned so badly the first time. If the boy does blackmail her, she will probably run away somewhere else. Which means the rest of the joke scenario can't happen.

Jerkface definitely has some kind of vendetta against either Tooru or Yuki. The real question is who is the one he has a problem with? This will probably be revealed when Tooru is shown. In any case, from the circumstantial evidence in THIS chapter and in the manga thus far, Tooru is at least guilty of being partially involved in Jerkface plans. I personally don't want Tooru to be "completely innocent", because it would be too...well....lame.

As for being in a prep school in Tokyo...it doesn't actually take that much money to be studying out of prefecture. I need to look at the original script again, because I thought Tooru was studying in a high school in Tokyo (which means he only occasionally returns to Nagano) and the prep school thing is somekind of mistranslation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darknemo
Or the douche had suggested for Touro the safe spot on school and placed the cam there knowing he will do it, specially if they pushed him into it. Touro may still not know about it - all you need is that the another guy to be really manipulating about it, thats all.
Then those two guys with the camera will spend hours in the store waiting for Tooru who may or may not show up? That doesn't sound very plausible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darknemo
I am not making anything to fit my argument. The problem is that I don't remember those well enough. In fact I don't care much about this manga. Thus I didnt recall the phone at all, and thus in my head I remembered the event as in he was on top on her then had the memory and backed off because of it, while in reality he had an anger fit and backed off because of the call.
If you can't bother to fact check because you don't care about the manga, you can like...you know...don't post. At least you don't give people the impression you are shooting blanks and inventing scenarios.
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Old 2011-01-21, 20:46   Link #2046
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Originally Posted by Bonta Kun View Post
Yea I don't see em keeping a lid on something like a sex vid, even if they wanted to try to give her go, blackmail would have been the most effective method.

This whole deal is abit meh, cause I can't lose sight that they are young teenagers so "knowing better" doesn't always apply but I can't help but think it should.
Yuki falling for the guilt trip rather easily, at least say "ok after school at my/your place, whats the damn rush!?"
Touru does have his side of the story but I feel too many things go against him and no way in hell the video cam is a coincidence.
Biggest factor going against Touru atm is the bet, if he really did take the money for bet then he's scum whether or not he knew about the video cam.
I'm afraid them being young teenagers is invalid here. What was done was horrible. So horrible, I'd want to beat them up even if I wasn't a good friend of the girl.

Quote:
I suspect it could still be doing rounds somewhere, something like that would spread like wild fire.
Altho it could be played that after Touru found out about it(if he didn't know) went to get it rid of it.
but then if the guys didn't have a copy of it I'd paint them as huge dumb f***s for not cause lets be fair, you would.
It was digital too... maybe it's on Share?

Quote:
Originally Posted by frubam View Post
Well I certainly don't expect them to announce it to EVERYONE and then the girl in question. Maybe to just the guys I could see, but not be like "Hey everyone, Yuki gave up the box to Tooru!!!" in big headline caps. There was no buildup(like getting looked at by random schoolmates, talking behind her back, etc) or anything, just BAM, and the whole school knows your sexual exploits. To me, rather than this being the result of Tooru eagerly trying to get his reward, it seems to me that somebody wanted to ruin Tooru's reputation. Or maybe Yuki scorned the guy who was showing it and wanted to pay her back for liking someone else.
I wonder how much the limitation of pages effected this. Would we have preferred a more drawn out and painful flashback spread over two or more chapters... or just be done with it? I think be done with it myself. The focus is on Utsumi, you only need to know what happened to Yuki, not the details about those kids.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaito-kid View Post
lol, i stopped reading this Manga a long time ago (this Manga is way to emo)and then today I came across the latest chapter and I just read it for the lulz.. and I get this! wahahahaha! Awesome! it's cliche as fu*k, but awesome in this particular manga.
This is FAR from cliche. Name me a shonen series that has done this before.
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Old 2011-01-21, 21:08   Link #2047
Bonta Kun
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
I'm afraid them being young teenagers is invalid here. What was done was horrible. So horrible, I'd want to beat them up even if I wasn't a good friend of the girl.
Oh yea def a horrible thing to do and really there should be some due punishment for such a thing.
I too would have beat them up.

But again not sure if "knowing better" applies cause at this point it's only on Yuki we can really say "should have known better".
Can't really apply to Touru till he shows up with his side of the story.
Well she does say herself she was so stupid for doing so, so I guess we could slap it on her but then theres whole "in love" and "dropping her guard" and what not.
People say Yuki isn't to blame and I think I might agree but then like I say should she have "known better"?
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Old 2011-01-21, 21:16   Link #2048
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She should be blamed, its not like she was raped or anything. She was retarded enough to spread her legs like some brainless H manga chick, moreover she was like in middle school which she said herself. Imo it would be even better and more laughable about her if she got pregnant as they probably didn't use any protection (suzuka anyone?), but author didn't have enough "balls" to do that.
Who cares about touru and if he is a prick or not, same goes for sh1t face. They did what they did its common, but for yuki she should behave more normally considering her personality and family rising, yet she behaved like some naive skunk.
Its not like I rage or something, but it makes me laugh and chuckle when she makes herself a drama queen and shows how she is ohh so hurt, when its 50-70% her fault. Touru was just a spark which lead her to spread her legs, its not like she had to do it or some kitties would die.
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Old 2011-01-21, 21:34   Link #2049
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Originally Posted by Xaturas View Post
She should be blamed, its not like she was raped or anything. She was retarded enough to spread her legs like some brainless H manga chick, moreover she was like in middle school which she said herself. Imo it would be even better and more laughable about her if she got pregnant as they probably didn't use any protection (suzuka anyone?), but author didn't have enough "balls" to do that.
Who cares about touru and if he is a prick or not, same goes for sh1t face. They did what they did its common, but for yuki she should behave more normally considering her personality and family rising, yet she behaved like some naive skunk.
Its not like I rage or something, but it makes me laugh and chuckle when she makes herself a drama queen and shows how she is ohh so hurt, when its 50-70% her fault. Touru was just a spark which lead her to spread her legs, its not like she had to do it or some kitties would die.
You've quite obviously never really been in love.
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Old 2011-01-21, 21:40   Link #2050
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Originally Posted by Xaturas View Post
She should be blamed, its not like she was raped or anything. She was retarded enough to spread her legs like some brainless H manga chick, moreover she was like in middle school which she said herself. Imo it would be even better and more laughable about her if she got pregnant as they probably didn't use any protection (suzuka anyone?), but author didn't have enough "balls" to do that.
Who cares about touru and if he is a prick or not, same goes for sh1t face. They did what they did its common, but for yuki she should behave more normally considering her personality and family rising, yet she behaved like some naive skunk.
Its not like I rage or something, but it makes me laugh and chuckle when she makes herself a drama queen and shows how she is ohh so hurt, when its 50-70% her fault. Touru was just a spark which lead her to spread her legs, its not like she had to do it or some kitties would die.
True no kitties were killed if Yuki abstained, but she obviously came from a family of standing and tradition. That can be a very stifling life for a "modern" girl who is hoping to differentiate herself from her parents. Here she has this friend for most of her life who SHOULD be the one caring the most and protecting her the most, and is "dating" her. So it's not so surprising she naively trusts Touru too much. He plays the "Maybe you don't love me" cheap card and she falls like a house of twigs.

Really she SHOULD have more sense, but then again, maybe not. Touru MIGHT be (and I expect will be) exonerated to a certain extent from the taping of the act, but the cheap shot at her dedication to him was uncalled for and he SHOULD have paid dearly for it. Throwing it all on Yuki I think is a rationalization that she's an idiot, which she clearly is not. Weak at one time? Obviously, but no longer, hence the difficulty she finds herself in with Utsumi now.
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Old 2011-01-21, 21:41   Link #2051
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Originally Posted by Ultenth View Post
You've quite obviously never really been in love.
And this too!
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Old 2011-01-21, 21:43   Link #2052
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But again not sure if "knowing better" applies cause at this point it's only on Yuki we can really say "should have known better".
Can't really apply to Touru till he shows up with his side of the story.
Well she does say herself she was so stupid for doing so, so I guess we could slap it on her but then theres whole "in love" and "dropping her guard" and what not.
People say Yuki isn't to blame and I think I might agree but then like I say should she have "known better"?
In regards to Yuki, she should have known better. Teenagers should not be having sex, period. Unfortunately, reality disagrees with me and like Yuki, kids are young and in love.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaturas View Post
She should be blamed, its not like she was raped or anything. She was retarded enough to spread her legs like some brainless H manga chick, moreover she was like in middle school which she said herself. Imo it would be even better and more laughable about her if she got pregnant as they probably didn't use any protection, but author didn't have enough "balls" to do that.
Who cares about touru and if he is a prick or not, same goes for sh1t face. They did what they did its common, but for yuki she should behave more normally considering her personality and family rising, yet she behaved like some naive skunk.
Its not like I rage or something, but it makes me laugh and chuckle when she makes herself a drama queen and shows how she is ohh so hurt, when its 50-70% her fault. Touru was just a spark which lead her to spread her legs, its not like she had to do it or some kitties would die.
I think you are being a little too harsh on her. I expected her to be smarter than that, to say no, but I think because she had known the guy for so long, she trusted him and truly loved him. People do stupid things when they are in love.

I do think a pregnancy thing would have been better, however we need to hate Touru for his potential return and appeal to Yuki.

[/Suzukaspoilerremoved]
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Old 2011-01-21, 21:55   Link #2053
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I'm not surprised at the no pregnancy thing though. There are actually a LOT of things that go against getting pregnant. Its not THAT easy. OTOH, most teens who end up preggers SAY they only "did it once" which is total bull. Once the sign says "open", most teens start doing it like rabbits, multiple times a night, night after night until: "OOPS! I had NO idea!"

This was Yuki's first time as was clearly stated... and apparently her last too! She was in love, afraid of ruining her childhood friendship, and being seen as a "bad girlfriend", so she did the stupid thing and gave in in the heat of the moment. But as I stated above, on HER side there could have been MANY other mitigating circumstances that drew her into a bad decision. So while it was her fault on HER side that she gave in, she's already punished herself enough and isn't through with herself form the look of it, over a one night stand.

We don't know Touru's side to everything is conjecture, but you KNOW there is more than meets the eye so far, and he will be made out the victim in SOME way before this story is over.
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Old 2011-01-21, 21:57   Link #2054
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Also, there are 2 ways to get smart: Experience and learning from someone ELSE'S experience. Yuki chose the former.
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Old 2011-01-21, 22:27   Link #2055
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I'm not surprised at the no pregnancy thing though. There are actually a LOT of things that go against getting pregnant. Its not THAT easy. OTOH, most teens who end up preggers SAY they only "did it once" which is total bull. Once the sign says "open", most teens start doing it like rabbits, multiple times a night, night after night until: "OOPS! I had NO idea!"

This was Yuki's first time as was clearly stated... and apparently her last too! She was in love, afraid of ruining her childhood friendship, and being seen as a "bad girlfriend", so she did the stupid thing and gave in in the heat of the moment. But as I stated above, on HER side there could have been MANY other mitigating circumstances that drew her into a bad decision. So while it was her fault on HER side that she gave in, she's already punished herself enough and isn't through with herself form the look of it, over a one night stand.

We don't know Touru's side to everything is conjecture, but you KNOW there is more than meets the eye so far, and he will be made out the victim in SOME way before this story is over.
These are pretty much my thoughts on the incident. Yuki had a seriously bad lapse in judgment when she decided to give in... made even worse by doing it right then and there in the school storeroom (that's almost like asking to get caught, at least where I'm from in the US, where teachers used to patrol the halls like cops... no hallpass and you got detention). It was just a really stupid move on her part to do it, but that's where the blame ends for her.

Tooru shoulders 95% of this, even if he didn't know about the taping (which I'm fairly certain he did, but I'm not going to convict a man when all the evidence isn't in yet). He was the one who let those idiots manipulate him and he's the jerk who used guilt to manipulate Yuki into doing it with him when she clearly wasn't ready for it.

What I find funny about the Yuki part is this:

Some people say she was manipulated into it. Others say she could have said no, but didn't because she wanted to do it. I prefer to go with the former, myself, because if its the latter, in some ways she brought it on herself for doing it in a place like that. Yeah, I'm sure she wasn't expecting a video camera, but doing it in a public place where anyone can walk in at any time... if its not due to Tooru's manipulation and her own conscious decision, it would make her even dumber than I thought. It's why I prefer the guilt trip theory.
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Old 2011-01-21, 22:53   Link #2056
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I think she wanted to do it in a way - not desiring it but not opposing it either. Doing it just because of guilt in school territory - she would be Eba-like stupid if guilt was her only motive.
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Old 2011-01-22, 00:01   Link #2057
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
In regards to Yuki, she should have known better. Teenagers should not be having sex, period. Unfortunately, reality disagrees with me and like Yuki, kids are young and in love.

I think you are being a little too harsh on her. I expected her to be smarter than that, to say no, but I think because she had known the guy for so long, she trusted him and truly loved him. People do stupid things when they are in love.

I do think a pregnancy thing would have been better, however we need to hate Touru for his potential return and appeal to Yuki.

[/Suzukaspoilerremoved]
You can't be serious. I started having sex at 14, I've got no kids, no dieases not even any scares. It's ridiculous to ask people to wait till marriage these days because unlike back in biblical times, we don't all get married at 14 and 16.


As for Yuki, I don't think she did anything stupid. I mean how the hell was she supposed to know? She'd been friends with Touru since gradeschool, a person like that normally would not do anything to hurt you.
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Old 2011-01-22, 00:33   Link #2058
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Originally Posted by n0c0ntr0l View Post
You can't be serious. I started having sex at 14, I've got no kids, no dieases not even any scares. It's ridiculous to ask people to wait till marriage these days because unlike back in biblical times, we don't all get married at 14 and 16.


As for Yuki, I don't think she did anything stupid. I mean how the hell was she supposed to know? She'd been friends with Touru since gradeschool, a person like that normally would not do anything to hurt you.
Well, you're lucky then. I know plenty of people who had their futures cut short due to teenage pregnancy. The problem is, you're taking a big risk. A teenager isn't really that prepared to raise a kid and they usually end up having drop out of school or miss college to support the child. Just look at a certain other manga where that really happened-- and they were several years older than Yuki and Tooru.

It's like playing Russian Roulette. Yeah, you can get lucky and survive, but it's still a dumb thing to do. You can use the "as long as they were responsible" defense, I guess, but how responsible can they be if they're doing it on school grounds and one might be doing it on a bet?

My mom had me when she was 16 and she tried her best. But she had to drop out of school and get a minimum wage laying job, and we were quite poor for a long time, because my dad was too young to be responsible. And I highly doubt Yuki's dad, given his attitude, would support Yuki and her baby if she did end up knocked up.
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Old 2011-01-22, 00:42   Link #2059
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Well, you're lucky then. I know plenty of people who had their futures cut short due to teenage pregnancy. The problem is, you're taking a big risk. A teenager isn't really that prepared to raise a kid and they usually end up having drop out of school or miss college to support the child. Just look at a certain other manga where that really happened-- and they were several years older than Yuki and Tooru.

It's like playing Russian Roulette. Yeah, you can get lucky and survive, but it's still a dumb thing to do.
So is riding in a car, or flying in a plane, or going skiing, or swimming, etc.etc. etc. Life is all about risk vs. reward, and if someone is in love, the rewards seem great and risks small. Any action can potentially cause you pain, or perhaps bring you joy, it's up to individual circumstances and the people to decide what the right choice is, and it's not the same for everyone. It's hard to judge what the right choice is for someone from the outside looking in, because we can't feel the emotions they are feeling. Yes there are people that probably shouldn't have sex underaged, because they can't handle being responsible during sex, let along towards the potential results.

But personally the setup for Yuki giving up her virginity was actually in some ways what a lot of people would see as a seemingly ideal scenario. Would you rather she waited till she was 19 and in collage and banged some sports captain sempai she just met a month before? The odds were in her favor, she rolled the dice, and she lost, simple as that.
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Old 2011-01-22, 01:43   Link #2060
n0c0ntr0l
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Originally Posted by KLGChaos View Post
Well, you're lucky then. I know plenty of people who had their futures cut short due to teenage pregnancy. The problem is, you're taking a big risk. A teenager isn't really that prepared to raise a kid and they usually end up having drop out of school or miss college to support the child. Just look at a certain other manga where that really happened-- and they were several years older than Yuki and Tooru.

It's like playing Russian Roulette. Yeah, you can get lucky and survive, but it's still a dumb thing to do. You can use the "as long as they were responsible" defense, I guess, but how responsible can they be if they're doing it on school grounds and one might be doing it on a bet?

My mom had me when she was 16 and she tried her best. But she had to drop out of school and get a minimum wage laying job, and we were quite poor for a long time, because my dad was too young to be responsible. And I highly doubt Yuki's dad, given his attitude, would support Yuki and her baby if she did end up knocked up.
It wasn't luck. Just because in America they only push abstinence doesn't mean this is the case in the rest of the world. Here we actually get taught to use condoms etc. And I've never not worn a condom (girlfriend on the pill is excluded). In the neatherlands the parents talk to their kids about sex and they even allow teens to sleep in the same bed under their roof and look at this, they have one of the lowest teenage pregnancy rates in the world. If you are stupid enough to have unprotected sex then you deserve everything you get, but a lot of people are not and actually wrap up where I'm from.
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