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Old 2011-01-24, 07:42   Link #2881
Shiroth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles View Post
I kept wondering ever since the original airing of this episode as to why Goku just didn't have a bag of Senzu beans and replenish to finish Cell off for good. Or was that some 'infinite ki' thing for Cell? Then how did Cell's ki diminish with resurrections and giant fireballs? Oh well.. going by that logic, Goku should have had a Senzu bean bag with him at ALL TIMES and he would have had a lot less trouble for almost all of his DBZ fights. Of course, they just explain it that Goku has the Saiyan Pride and some such.
Goku's decision could fall into 'it's time for the young ones to protect this planet'.
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Old 2011-01-24, 07:56   Link #2882
SuperKnuckles
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Yeah. Gohan's ascension to me is one of the most satisfying moments of DBZ. Too bad he takes a back seat again. I will never understand that decision..
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Old 2011-01-24, 09:53   Link #2883
MushroomSamba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles View Post
I kept wondering ever since the original airing of this episode as to why Goku just didn't have a bag of Senzu beans and replenish to finish Cell off for good. Or was that some 'infinite ki' thing for Cell? Then how did Cell's ki diminish with resurrections and giant fireballs? Oh well.. going by that logic, Goku should have had a Senzu bean bag with him at ALL TIMES and he would have had a lot less trouble for almost all of his DBZ fights. Of course, they just explain it that Goku has the Saiyan Pride and some such.
Or maybe beans just give him gas.
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Old 2011-01-24, 10:15   Link #2884
Aukino
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I liked the original season when I used to be a kid so I'm looking forward to it
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Old 2011-01-24, 12:38   Link #2885
GDB
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Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles View Post
Too bad he takes a back seat again. I will never understand that decision..
Editorial mandate.
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Old 2011-01-24, 14:07   Link #2886
Vegard Aune
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Editorial mandate.
That explaination seems to get thrown around a lot, but has anyone ever actually given a source for it? Because from what I understand, the only actual official statement regarding the focus switching back to Goku, was a comment from Toriyama himself in the second Daizenshuu, where he said that Gohan just didn't feel like as good of a main character. Sure, there were cases where his editors complained about stuff and made him change the direction of the story, but in this case, there doesn't seem to be any actual proof that this was the reason. Though of course, it's possible that he was lying so as to not make the editorial staff look bad.
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Old 2011-01-24, 14:33   Link #2887
LuckyCat
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See now it will be interesting if they do end Kai at Cell saga. Would that be a mandate by Toriyama that he actually preferred this climax?
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Old 2011-01-24, 23:57   Link #2888
Vicious108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles View Post
Yeah. Gohan's ascension to me is one of the most satisfying moments of DBZ. Too bad he takes a back seat again. I will never understand that decision..
I do. Gohan's boring and Goku makes for a much better hero.

We've just passed the peak of this arc as far as I'm concerned. Well, the Cell Jrs. beating on the Z warriors is a fun and well animated episode too. And Gohan's transformation itself is enjoyable and undeniably memorable I suppose, even if I find what he becomes like as a result to be pretty lame.
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Old 2011-01-25, 02:41   Link #2889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MushroomSamba View Post
You know, it's funny (well, maybe not funny funny), but we've seen Gohan get smacked around plenty before (an especially nasty whipping by Recoome comes to mind), but it wasn't really until now that I actually felt bad for him and realized that we're basically watching a poor, small child get beaten to death. :\

Spoiler:
Guess music really does help. Plus suppose it was just a different feel in the scene. It's odd since against Recoome he was definitely getting hurt much worse and nearly died. Here he isn't that badly hurt, but it just feels just horrible. Maybe because Gohan was fighting so desperately against Recoome while in that scene Gohan was just getting beaten constantly without any defence or resistance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles View Post
Yeah. Gohan's ascension to me is one of the most satisfying moments of DBZ. Too bad he takes a back seat again. I will never understand that decision..
That decision is still the thing I dislike hte most about the series. They just make Gohan feel like such a wasted character. If that wasn't enough they make sure to make him feel like a great character again....and then flush his character back down the drain for good measure.

Forget the people technically responsible, I blame the parents. Chichi completely ruined Gohan's character.
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Old 2011-01-25, 03:12   Link #2890
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Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
Forget the people technically responsible, I blame the parents. Chichi completely ruined Gohan's character.
I don't see how it's possible for her to ruin him considering she made him and was always there. There was never any Chichi-less Gohan.
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Old 2011-01-25, 04:42   Link #2891
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Originally Posted by Endless Twilight View Post
We've just passed the peak of this arc as far as I'm concerned. Well, the Cell Jrs. beating on the Z warriors is a fun and well animated episode too. And Gohan's transformation itself is enjoyable and undeniably memorable I suppose, even if I find what he becomes like as a result to be pretty lame.
Yeah i agree. I was actually hoping Goku would carry on the fight, even though i knew it would play out like this.

& there's still Goku's shining moment to happen in the arc. Can't wait to hear what piece of music they'll use for that scene.
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Old 2011-01-25, 11:26   Link #2892
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
Forget the people technically responsible, I blame the parents. Chichi completely ruined Gohan's character.
By the time Gohan becomes a teenager, he starts to take control over his own life. Yeah he wants to become a scholar, but he won't pass up the opportunity to defend the earth. Chi Chi no longer objected to his decisions in the Buu arc since he was no longer a kid. It simply comes down to Toriyama wanting Goku to hog the spotlight again (which sucks, I agree).
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Old 2011-01-25, 13:58   Link #2893
ChainLegacy
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Goku probably is more suited to the hero role... but that doesn't matter since Gohan's 'great power' has been foreshadowed since episode one, and then finally unleashed against Cell. I like Goku better too, but from a story perspective it's a really bizzare move putting him back in the spotlight. One of several reasons I find the Buu arc inferior to the others (though still damn fun to watch don't get me wrong).
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Old 2011-01-25, 15:42   Link #2894
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endless Twilight View Post
I don't see how it's possible for her to ruin him considering she made him and was always there. There was never any Chichi-less Gohan.
Please there was a great deal of limiting Chichi's influence. Living at home this was a kid who was incredibly meek. The time training with Piccolo, on Namek, training with his father, helped build up confidence and a stronger personality. But without anything going on plenty of time to impose her will and ruin his character. Personally I find it hard to believe one can argue her not ruining his character.
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Old 2011-01-25, 16:25   Link #2895
Shiroth
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'Ruin' is such the wrong word here.
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Old 2011-01-26, 00:51   Link #2896
Mr. DJ
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ah Goku vs. Cell...I loved the animation they used for their "real" fight
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Old 2011-01-26, 05:12   Link #2897
Yui Is My Wife
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One thing I found funny about Son Gohan.

Where the hell did he (and for that matter, his adorable little brother Goten), who is home schooled, learn how to use the polite masculine first-person-singluar prefix of "boku" to address himself when his grandfather, father and even mother ALL uses the coarse masucline singular of "ora" to refer to themselves day-in day-out?!?!
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Old 2011-01-26, 08:40   Link #2898
SuperKnuckles
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Originally Posted by Yui Is My Wife View Post
One thing I found funny about Son Gohan.

Where the hell did he (and for that matter, his adorable little brother Goten), who is home schooled, learn how to use the polite masculine first-person-singluar prefix of "boku" to address himself when his grandfather, father and even mother ALL uses the coarse masucline singular of "ora" to refer to themselves day-in day-out?!?!
Moms will beat discipline into kids like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
That decision is still the thing I dislike hte most about the series. They just make Gohan feel like such a wasted character. If that wasn't enough they make sure to make him feel like a great character again....and then flush his character back down the drain for good measure.

Forget the people technically responsible, I blame the parents. Chichi completely ruined Gohan's character.
The thing is, I think Gohan could have been plenty interesting had he had to put up a serious superhero/real-life balancing role instead of Toriyama giving him the ridiculous Saibaman gimmick. And it is really weird since for all intents and purposes in the story, Goku gives the key to the future and basically crowns Gohan to take up the mantle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Endless Twilight View Post
I do. Gohan's boring and Goku makes for a much better hero.

We've just passed the peak of this arc as far as I'm concerned. Well, the Cell Jrs. beating on the Z warriors is a fun and well animated episode too. And Gohan's transformation itself is enjoyable and undeniably memorable I suppose, even if I find what he becomes like as a result to be pretty lame.
I think the main problem is that Gohan didn't even get a chance to be in the spotlight to begin with. If he was fully in the spotlight, he probably would have had more fun/cool moments to flesh him out. Sadly we didn't really get that.

And yeah, as for the Buu thing, the way Gohan was seemingly cast as a fodder annoyed the hell out of me. Even by Goku's measure, even in his Super Saiyan 3 level of power, he still acknowledged Gohan as the ultimate Saiyan at the point. Then it all goes to silence as Goku gets stronger, stronger, stronger and beats Buu. I remember, even as a grade schooler back in original manga circulation, that I felt sorry for Gohan.

I still do.
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Old 2011-01-26, 08:51   Link #2899
Yui Is My Wife
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Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles View Post
Moms will beat discipline into kids like that.
No no, I mean when Chichi herself considers using the Yakuz-masculine ora to address herself perfectly acceptable, how would it have crossed her mind in the first place to teach him AND Goten the polite and gentle boku to refer to themselves when they live all their lives (until 16) amongst lions tigers bears and dinosaurs with no polite civlized company?
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Old 2011-01-26, 10:51   Link #2900
GDB
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with no polite civlized company?
They may live in the forest, but I believe they still go into town for groceries and such. Plus, there's always the Ox King. Not sure what type of pronoun he uses.
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