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View Poll Results: Madoka Magica - Episode 4 Rating
Perfect 10 48 36.64%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 46 35.11%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 27 20.61%
7 out of 10 : Good 6 4.58%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 1.53%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.76%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 0.76%
Voters: 131. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-01-28, 10:42   Link #101
Haak
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Damn, this show is just getting better and better.
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Old 2011-01-28, 11:07   Link #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miyuki-ism View Post
Maybe Madoka is being greedy and doesn't want to wish anything because she doesn't want to die like Mami, or she's actually just following Homura's advice.
It's not that she doesn't actually wish for it. It's that she's not even shown thinking abut it, or asking out-loud about it. Whether or not Mami can be wished back from the dead really is a 800 lb elephant in the room that nobody seems to want to bring up.


Consider that Madoka shows great guilt, in this episode, over choosing to not be a magical girl. You can only feel guilt when you really consider an alternate course of action (i.e. "I should have done this instead", or "I shouldn't be making the decision that I'm making right now").

So, as scared as Madoka is of choosing to be a magical girl, it's not a choice that she has completely ruled out. In other words, she's still weighing the pros and cons of being a magical girl. In that state of mind, she really ought to be wondering if she could wish Mami back from the dead.
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Old 2011-01-28, 11:10   Link #103
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Can you wish for something like that? I dunno why but for some reason I thought there were limitations to these wishes...
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Old 2011-01-28, 11:13   Link #104
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Well if Homura could have in theory gotten Kyubey to manipulate time for Madoka's sake, then raising the dead isn't out of the question.

Which again brings me back to how the theory of Kyubey's power or the ultimate goal of the entire cycle reeks very much of F/SN Holy Grail.
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Old 2011-01-28, 11:15   Link #105
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Yep, 100% on target. And one thing more:

Spoiler for stay away if you haven't watched ep4 yet:
Spoiler:
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Old 2011-01-28, 11:18   Link #106
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Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Well if Homura could have in theory gotten Kyubey to manipulate time for Madoka's sake, then raising the dead isn't out of the question.

Which again brings me back to how the theory of Kyubey's power or the ultimate goal of the entire cycle reeks very much of F/SN Holy Grail.
Oh dear God, now I can't help but think Homura is Madoka's future self, Archer-style. DX
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Old 2011-01-28, 11:21   Link #107
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Oh dear God, now I can't help but think Homura is Madoka's future self, Archer-style. DX
I'm less inclined, as there seems to be a little too much... ah... self-affection.

Homura's wistfulness about Madoka seems consistent with a close friend, but not with... herself.
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Old 2011-01-28, 11:26   Link #108
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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Can you wish for something like that? I dunno why but for some reason I thought there were limitations to these wishes...
I am more worried about crazy shit like this.

"Are you sure that the Mami you brought back is 100% vanilla Mami?"
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Old 2011-01-28, 11:30   Link #109
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Bringing back Mami is not going to help because they will still fight till death again and again. I'd say that wish was not the problem any more. They (at that time) were too fear to get involve in this MG business. About the limitation of wish, I think that it will be revealed later.
I think that Mami's death fulfilled the contract. If she is brought back she would not be a Magical Girl unless she made a new contract.
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Old 2011-01-28, 11:32   Link #110
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Oh dear God, now I can't help but think Homura is Madoka's future self, Archer-style. DX
Okay I actually wasn't even considering that but thank you for inserting selfcest into my mind.

Seriously though I wouldn't be surprised of the source of their wishes is really some yet unknown malevolent force and the possibility that Homura might even know something about this.
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Old 2011-01-28, 11:33   Link #111
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The only two wishes that we've actually seen have been souped-up healing magic, so it's hard to actually tell how powerful the wishing system is. I assume you can't ask for more wishes or for omnipotence.

The thing to remember is that the wish-granter probably isn't on our side. I'd imagine that something like wishing away all the witches would go against Kyubey's self-interests, so even if he had the power to fulfill that wish, he probably wouldn't grant it (although he might trick the girl into thinking he has?)

Essentially, there are many wishes you could make that would let you avoid paying the price associated with being a magical girl or destroy the system Kyubey has put in place. I'm sure that you could never get Kyubey to fulfill any of these wishes honestly and without any catches.

Part of the question is how much power Kyubey has, where it comes from, and why he wants to grant wishes and create magical girls, none of which we know for certain yet.
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Old 2011-01-28, 11:36   Link #112
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Oh, Sayaka.

Spoiler for Episode 4:
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Old 2011-01-28, 12:00   Link #113
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This episode was awesome, yet at the same time creepy.

In the next episode, I'm guessing Kyouko (voiced by Ai Nonaka!!) will demand a fight with Sayaka. Sayaka will accept even though she's just a rookie (she said to Madoka that she's quite good even though she's a rookie, if I'm not mistaken) and lose.

Finally, I was really creeped out when Sayaka saw Kyubey out the window. It's like.. Kyubey's expecting it.
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Old 2011-01-28, 12:10   Link #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
She's not being greedy, she's just scared, which is completely natural considering what she witnessed. She knows that making a wish condemns her to a life of figthing which will almost inevitably end gruesomely for her. In these conditions, I don't know about you, but I'd think twice before wishing someone I barely knew back to life.

I really can't blame Madoka for choosing to stay away for that magical girl business.
Maybe she is. And maybe she would choose to stay out of the MG business even IF she could wish Mami back.

The point is, we SHOULD see her thinking about it. It's a perfectly logical and valid point to consider. We don't know the limitations of the wishing system, and until we do, it's the big elephant in the room that characters in the show are avoiding.

Let me be clear, that I have no problems with Madoka going, "I could wish Mami back... but.. I'll be a magical girl and I can't... I'm so sorry Mami, I'm too scared!"

I have no problems with Kyube going, "There are some things you can't wish for. Bringing back the dead is one of them" or "You can't wish away all witches forever; it's not within my power." Even Genie from Aladdin had specific rules.

The point is, until we know those rules or see the characters consider them, it will forever loom overhead as a big point the writers are avoiding answering. And that's bad writing, unless he does plan to solve everything at the end with a wish or two.

Also, other than that, I think the series is fairly good. It's just that wish systems in stories have huge potential to make the characters stupid in order for the plot to work *coughcoughNEVERENDINGSTORY2AND3coughcough*. I'd rather not see that happen here.
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Old 2011-01-28, 12:15   Link #115
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It's not that she doesn't actually wish for it. It's that she's not even shown thinking abut it, or asking out-loud about it. Whether or not Mami can be wished back from the dead really is a 800 lb elephant in the room that nobody seems to want to bring up.
But the very reason she feels guilt is likely because she can't bring herself to become a MG for Mami's sake. I don't believe this needs to be said out loud, i am sure she was thinking about, but in the end is too scared to take that option, hence the guilt. It's not like she has much else to feel guilty for - she feels guilty for not being up to the task when she could potentially bring her friend back. She might even be scared of asking about it, because an actual confirmation that revival is an option would torment her even more - it's one thing to suspect (and it's bad enough on her), it's another to have it confirmed by Kyubey - she still wouldn't be able to do it, but would feel even more crushed by guilt. It's a very human reaction, and i am impressed the show took it indeed.
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Old 2011-01-28, 12:20   Link #116
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I agree entirely with Kaijo's last post.

That precisely sums up my take on the particular topic of discussion, as well as Madoka as a whole.


Really, it's mostly just a nitpick for me. It doesn't significantly erode my enjoyment for this anime, or my assessment of it.

At least not yet.

At some point, though, this wish system really needs to be tested, or questioned. It'll be disappointing if nobody does this, imo.
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Old 2011-01-28, 12:33   Link #117
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"You're too kind. Don't forget. That kindness may yet bring a greater tragedy."

Love this line. It makes me think Homura is not just protection Madoka. I think she knows that if she makes a contract with Kyubey, there'll be more consequences that just Madoka meeting a gruesome dead. At this point I almost convinced that Madoka making a contract, regardless of what she may wish for, will not save anyone, but rather bring the world to hell....

Really looking forward to next episode!!!
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Old 2011-01-28, 12:38   Link #118
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I don't if anybody mentioned this but I think what the zombies were making was mustard gas. Can anyone help me with this, the only bottle I could see was "Super wash".
They were trying to create toxic chlorine gas. If you mix chlorine-based cleanser with an acid-based cleanser, you release toxic chlorine gas.
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Old 2011-01-28, 13:32   Link #119
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But the very reason she feels guilt is likely because she can't bring herself to become a MG for Mami's sake. I don't believe this needs to be said out loud, i am sure she was thinking about, but in the end is too scared to take that option, hence the guilt. It's not like she has much else to feel guilty for - she feels guilty for not being up to the task when she could potentially bring her friend back. She might even be scared of asking about it, because an actual confirmation that revival is an option would torment her even more - it's one thing to suspect (and it's bad enough on her), it's another to have it confirmed by Kyubey - she still wouldn't be able to do it, but would feel even more crushed by guilt. It's a very human reaction, and i am impressed the show took it indeed.
As I pointed out, you may be right, but we need to be shown this. To do otherwise is bad writing.

If you really need to be made aware of the problems with wish systems, I suggest you watch the Neverending Story 2 and 3. Better yet, watch the Nostalgia Critic's review of those two movies.

If you can end your series on a happy note with a wish that was available from day 1, it's bad writing, plain and simple. It means you need to make your characters dumb as dirt in order for the plot to work.
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Old 2011-01-28, 13:49   Link #120
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But the very reason she feels guilt is likely because she can't bring herself to become a MG for Mami's sake. I don't believe this needs to be said out loud, i am sure she was thinking about, but in the end is too scared to take that option, hence the guilt. It's not like she has much else to feel guilty for - she feels guilty for not being up to the task when she could potentially bring her friend back. She might even be scared of asking about it, because an actual confirmation that revival is an option would torment her even more - it's one thing to suspect (and it's bad enough on her), it's another to have it confirmed by Kyubey - she still wouldn't be able to do it, but would feel even more crushed by guilt. It's a very human reaction, and i am impressed the show took it indeed.
Exactly. The reason Madoka felt so miserable and guilty in this episode is that she is aware it should be possible to bring Mami back to life (Kyubey clearly told her he can make any kind of miracles happen), but chooses not to because she's scared. I don't think this needs to be spelled out to us. The implication seen in the episode are enough. Take the scene at Mami's apartment for example: Madoka breaks down into tears and asks for Mami's forgiveness for being weak. "Weak" meaning she doesn't have the resolve and courage to become a magical girl, and therefore can't do anything for Mami.

Incidentally, the very reason she didn't ask Kyubey if it is possible to bring Mami back to life is that she's afraid of the answer. She would feel even more terrible if she knew for sure she could wish her back, but was too scared to do so. By remaining in the dark, she can try to convince herself there is nothing she can do, and thus alleviate her guilt a little.
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