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Old 2011-01-27, 02:51   Link #21761
Ssol
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It's kind of awkward for that post to be on a new page by itself.
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Old 2011-01-27, 14:27   Link #21762
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylon99 View Post

It's great entertainment value though. Who wouldn't find humor in lines such as:

As for "the thing of young order, is a booby Kinzo?"

True. Also, if you are paying attention as you read it, you'll end up learning some Japanese. Which is always useful!
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Old 2011-01-28, 03:57   Link #21763
LyricalAura
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Yah, it might make sense as yet another dream of Yasu. Because if you look at Beatrice-2, she never really wanted the job, it seems. But Beatrice-3, or Yasu, kinda seemed to like it. At least at first.

The story cuts off in EP7 after she became Beatrice in title, and she said that she wanted to go check out Kuwadorian to learn more about her mother/sister. (Hurray for incest.) So, this may have been how she imagined she would've been brought up, especially with Virgilia/Kumasawa as her tutor.
In retrospect it probably should have been an enormous clue. We got plenty of information by EP4 to realize that Beato's flashback couldn't possibly correspond to any of the real Beatrices' childhoods, not even a hypothetical Beatrice-3, and yet she had no reason to lie about it because she wasn't giving the information to Battler. What kind of entity can say something objectively fictional about their past and still be telling the truth?
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Old 2011-01-29, 03:25   Link #21764
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I would just like to remind everyone of something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EqqF...eature=related

DLANOR IS FREAKISHLY TALL.

Seriously, she is as tall as Will, but her face is like a child's. Even her picture at the tips confirms this. Yeah yeah I know it has a reason but...HOLY SHIT THAT'S CREEPY AS FUCK.
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Old 2011-01-29, 08:20   Link #21765
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It really is creepy

Quote:
It's kind of awkward for that post to be on a new page by itself.
I love this post but it's something really irrelevant to be quoted haha
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Old 2011-01-29, 13:29   Link #21766
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I know I'm going to regret wading back into Umineko theories but...

In episode 2, I have good reason to believe that Rosa shot one of the people found in Natsuhi's bedroom and locked the door behind her.

Look at the bodies, do you think any of those are bullet wounds? Keep in mind that the room was searched and that no guns were found in it.

Also there's this:

Spoiler for screenshots:

As you can see here Rosa put the keys in Maria's handbag. However when she later produced the keys, there is no indication that they were removed from Maria's handbag. Maria doesn't let people take stuff from her handbag without making some noise.
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Old 2011-01-29, 14:19   Link #21767
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That's usually only if the object has some importance to her. Maria didn't much seem to mind her Mama hiding keys in there, and I don't see why she'd object to their removal.

Plus, I think she held on to Maria's bag personally, I'm not sure.
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Old 2011-01-29, 15:39   Link #21768
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The only time Rosa wasn't under observation by Battler was when he was asleep in the parlor, and during that period the door was blocked by a huge furniture barricade. She couldn't have escaped without waking Battler up or going... out... the window?

Spoiler for Whaaaat:
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Last edited by LyricalAura; 2011-01-29 at 16:09.
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Old 2011-01-29, 17:09   Link #21769
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Thanks LyricalAura, I didn't notice that before. Good find!
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Old 2011-01-29, 18:13   Link #21770
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I pointed most of that out way back. (As well as the points that Rosa possessed sedatives, and that she had made food for Battler.)

OTOH, Episode 7 seems to imply that the killer was somebody found inside the room.
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Old 2011-01-29, 18:32   Link #21771
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...Who was confirmed dead in red, so for that Game atleast it's a no-go.
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Old 2011-01-29, 18:37   Link #21772
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...Who was confirmed dead in red, so for that Game atleast it's a no-go.
Here's the thing:

Was anyone else killed before the bomb went off at midnight?

If the culprit committed suicide after offing the other two (as Episode 7 implied), then that would certainly explain that game.
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Old 2011-01-29, 19:29   Link #21773
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The red text doesn't work that way. It's very contextual.

# The six people were already dead by the time they were discovered!
# All were killed by other people!
# All six were genuine victims, and did not take part in a mutual murder!
# There was no simultaneous murder!!


It is literally impossible for Kyrie and Rudolf to be the culprit of Episode 2. Same pretty much goes for most other Episodes. I suppose they could, technically, be the culprits of Rokkenjima Prime, except Bern's theory as presented is filled with plotholes and there's absolutely no clues or evidence in any of the Games that lead to this conclusion, so she pretty much had to pull it out of her ass.
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Old 2011-01-29, 19:58   Link #21774
LyricalAura
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Here's the thing:

Was anyone else killed before the bomb went off at midnight?

If the culprit committed suicide after offing the other two (as Episode 7 implied), then that would certainly explain that game.
EP7 didn't actually imply that though, it just suggested the victims were all dead. It would also satisfy the constraints if, say, Shannon came upon George and Gohda's dead bodies and then killed herself out of guilt when she realized they weren't faking.
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Old 2011-01-30, 02:29   Link #21775
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
It is literally impossible for Kyrie and Rudolf to be the culprit of Episode 2. Same pretty much goes for most other Episodes. I suppose they could, technically, be the culprits of Rokkenjima Prime, except Bern's theory as presented is filled with plotholes and there's absolutely no clues or evidence in any of the Games that lead to this conclusion, so she pretty much had to pull it out of her ass.
EDIT: Sorry, another side thought...

This is what I think... that even if they were the culprits of Rokkenjima Prime, that the Beatrice mysteries... if you believe Beatrice/Yasu had known the siblings well enough knew that any one of them could've killed (accidently and not pre-mediated at least). The so-called truth is just a toss of a die and not very meaningful.

What matters is that they were driven into a corner so much by their financial situation that even though they were all very good people who loved and were loved, something like 'this' could happen.


Hmm.. plausible?
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Old 2011-01-30, 02:35   Link #21776
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Did she really know them well enough to say that? Especially the rehabilitation of Krauss and Natsuhi - the two people she would have opportunity to know - in Chiru, which makes the two of them seem almost incapable of it.

But to turn around and say "Well, Eva/Hideyoshi or Rosa or Rudolf/Kyrie might get pushed that far" is... how do I say this... presumptuous. How the hell does she know they'd kill for money? Especially if we believe this whole "empathy for everybody involved" rot. If you feel so strongly for everybody, why are you suspecting them?

But since the message bottles seem to provide a clear answer - scapegoating Shannon/Kanon/Beatrice - apparently she doesn't believe the adults are actually capable of killing when forced into that position, because they apparently don't.
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Old 2011-01-30, 02:54   Link #21777
Kylon99
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Did she really know them well enough to say that? Especially the rehabilitation of Krauss and Natsuhi - the two people she would have opportunity to know - in Chiru, which makes the two of them seem almost incapable of it.

But to turn around and say "Well, Eva/Hideyoshi or Rosa or Rudolf/Kyrie might get pushed that far" is... how do I say this... presumptuous. How the hell does she know they'd kill for money? Especially if we believe this whole "empathy for everybody involved" rot. If you feel so strongly for everybody, why are you suspecting them?
Well, Natushi and Krauss are not included in my thinking. Red text and characterization and all that, like you say.

I'm not thinking that they kill for money though, I'm thinking that they will let the situation get out of hand and wind up accidently killing people. Anger, hatred, misconceptions, misunderstandings, etc. Especially since it was portrayed in EP7 that Eva killed Natsuhi 'accidently' she said. I'm thinking that that is the possibilty Yasu believed in. Or perhaps feared?

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If you feel so strongly for everybody, why are you suspecting them?
I can suspect those I feel for, because I believe that good people can do bad things. This seems to have been the message since the days of Higurashi. And we were looking at how Umineko may have had the same themes.

Quote:
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But since the message bottles seem to provide a clear answer - scapegoating Shannon/Kanon/Beatrice - apparently she doesn't believe the adults are actually capable of killing when forced into that position, because they apparently don't.
Hmmm... it's true about EP1 and 2. Maybe Yasu doesn't think this. However, EP3 shows Battler DOES think this with Eva shooting Battler. Even though it seems like she really didn't in the real world. Even if Battler can't remember it, he could look down to see no holes in his chest. 8)


Also... "rot?" Hyperbole, much? 8)
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Old 2011-01-30, 05:11   Link #21778
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To me, it's obvious that Episodes 3-4 are the adults going rampage (except Ep. 3 First Twilight).
There are no closed rooms and the whole episode is a mess of people running around. Even Kyrie said that, under the right circumstances, Eva could have been in her place. She probably "accidentally" killed Rosa in ep III and went insane.
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Old 2011-01-30, 09:29   Link #21779
Leafsnail
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
It is literally impossible for Kyrie and Rudolf to be the culprit of Episode 2. Same pretty much goes for most other Episodes. I suppose they could, technically, be the culprits of Rokkenjima Prime, except Bern's theory as presented is filled with plotholes and there's absolutely no clues or evidence in any of the Games that lead to this conclusion, so she pretty much had to pull it out of her ass.
Well, they aren't the culprits in episodes 1 or 2, but you wouldn't really expect them to be, considering those were written before the incident. Kyrie culprit is extemely likely in ep4, however.

The hints... are mainly motive based. We have Kyrie prepared to kill Asumu out of envy. But then... we also know that Battler isn't Asumu's son, and since Battler is still Kinzo's grandchild Kyrie seems like the most logical possibility. Now, imagine Kyrie's fury if she learnt of this... not much surprise that Rudolf expected to be killed.

Then you have Eva's refusal to tell Ange what happened on Rokkenjima, and her raw hatred of her.

Interestingly, though, in both episodes 3 and 4 there must be someone other than Eva and Kyrie respectively who are doing something (someone else killed Nanjo in ep3 (Kyrie? Yasu?), and someone else must've taken away Kyrie's gun in ep4 (Yasu?)).
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Old 2011-01-30, 12:39   Link #21780
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She'd have to survive the stab wound to her stomach in EP 3, shoot and kill Nanjo and probably George with Shannon if she was still alive at the time. All to die some moments later without leaving any evidence along the way of a person probably bleeding to death moving about the mansion.

In EP4 she'd have to kill a whole lot people and then someone would have to take her weapon, put a stake in her head, then commit suicide in a matter that hides the weapon. Oh that person would also have to kill a child at some point by what appears is poison since that particular case doesn't quite fit the original murderers MO.

We could spin around forever now that the catbox has been apparently closed for good. So much fun!
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