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Old 2011-02-01, 17:23   Link #21841
AuraTwilight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafsnail View Post
But if the red "Battler does not exist in this room" would be valid after a Battler suicide, wouldn't that... have been enough? I mean, otherwise the whole thing is just "distract Erika so much that she forgets the obvious".
No, it wouldn't have, because the point was to make Battler's corpse disappear. THAT'S WHY ERIKA WENT IN THE ROOM. Having Battler's corpse in the room is the same as saying nothing happened despite the witch saying so, which is the same as saying "The witch doesn't exist."

Battler must either make Battler's body completely vanish, or he must rescind his placement of the letter and say the Witch Side never made that move. He has no other recourse.

(This is why people need to pay attention to non-red words.)

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i actually read ep7 ,it didn't really talk about yasu and shannon as one person.the ep show us that yasu is infact a witch and a friend of shannon.

lets assume that yasu and shannon was the same person.
who is kanon then? how did he disappear from battler's closed room?
Shannon is an imaginary friend of Yasu's, and as EP7 and the rest of canon implies, Yasu is Shannon by day and Beatrice by night.

Kanon is also Yasu, and <apparently> disappeared from the closed room on that basis.

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-well i'll take it literally because like higurashi there has be a fantasy to it.
hanyuu's existence can be considered a fantasy right?
Goodness, no, not at all.
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Old 2011-02-01, 17:29   Link #21842
Renall
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In Higurashi, Hanyuu really exists.

But Higurashi isn't trying to suggest supernatural elements don't exist.
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Old 2011-02-01, 17:48   Link #21843
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renall View Post
In Higurashi, Hanyuu really exists.

But Higurashi isn't trying to suggest supernatural elements don't exist.
yeah i know,in umineko battler refuse to believe in super natural entities that we call witches.but the author is the same so there's a posibilities that supernatural entities really exist on umineko
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Old 2011-02-01, 18:06   Link #21844
AuraTwilight
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And in Umineko, Higurashi is only a novel. Your comparison doesn't work in the slightest. Yasu wasn't a witch who had magical powers to rewrite the world, she was an incestual bastard child who played elaborate games of pretend to escape her shitty life.
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Old 2011-02-01, 18:20   Link #21845
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Not to mention, we have word of god, from the author, that they're not being written the same way. He wants to avoid writing it like Higurashi.
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Old 2011-02-01, 18:20   Link #21846
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
And in Umineko, Higurashi is only a novel. Your comparison doesn't work in the slightest. Yasu wasn't a witch who had magical powers to rewrite the world, she was an incestual bastard child who played elaborate games of pretend to escape her shitty life.
everything you said is based only on your belief but i don't like those word you use when you talk about yasu.
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Old 2011-02-01, 18:23   Link #21847
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Originally Posted by unsuspectingvisitor View Post
everything you said is based only on your belief
No it's all stuff said in the game. Really reread it.
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Old 2011-02-01, 18:34   Link #21848
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Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
No it's all stuff said in the game. Really reread it.
i know i just finish reading it . im talking about yasu not being a witch and the word he used that was unnecessary.
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Old 2011-02-01, 18:44   Link #21849
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I fail to see your argument here. As Judoh pointed out, Ryukishi intended to write Umineko and Higurashi in different ways. So you saying that Umineko MUST have a supernatural element and therefore you can say Yasu is a witch doesn't really hold water. And while you may not like it, Yasu is the product of an incestuous and illegitimate relationship. She is a bastard-child, and I'm afraid you're going to have to deal with it.
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Old 2011-02-01, 19:39   Link #21850
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Originally Posted by delita-umw- View Post
I fail to see your argument here. As Judoh pointed out, Ryukishi intended to write Umineko and Higurashi in different ways. So you saying that Umineko MUST have a supernatural element and therefore you can say Yasu is a witch doesn't really hold water. And while you may not like it, Yasu is the product of an incestuous and illegitimate relationship. She is a bastard-child, and I'm afraid you're going to have to deal with it.
im talking about the word shitty and bastard here.i don't like swear words.
so if you think that yasu didn't become a witch on ep7,how can you explain the yasu and shannon tea party ?
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Old 2011-02-01, 19:46   Link #21851
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Originally Posted by unsuspectingvisitor View Post
im talking about the word shitty and bastard here.i don't like swear words.
so if you think that yasu didn't become a witch on ep7,how can you explain the yasu and shannon tea party ?
"Bastard child" describes the events of Yasu's birth perfectly.

The whole Tea Party is made up in her mind, and cannot be considered actual events. There was never any magic, and the whole "Witch Yasu" was simply made up inside her head.
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Old 2011-02-01, 19:47   Link #21852
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She was born out of wedlock. She's a bastard.
Her life was shitty. Pretty much no one loved her, she never did anything with her life.

Unless, of course, you're willing to argue that "Yasu had an okay life, but she was willing to die anyways while killing the people around her, because that's what people with okay lives do"
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Old 2011-02-01, 19:51   Link #21853
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Quote:
im talking about the word shitty and bastard here.i don't like swear words.
A bastard is someone born of an illegitimate relationship.

"Shitty" describes a life of poor, undesirable, and pitiable circumstances.

If you can't deal with swear words, you're free to go back to third grade.

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so if you think that yasu didn't become a witch on ep7,how can you explain the yasu and shannon tea party ?
They happen while Shannon is ASLEEP. As in she is dreaming. As in that thing you do where you can do whatever you want because it's not real and only in your head.

Goodness gracious, are you serious?!
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Old 2011-02-01, 19:52   Link #21854
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Originally Posted by unsuspectingvisitor View Post
so if you think that yasu didn't become a witch on ep7,how can you explain the yasu and shannon tea party ?
If you're talking about when Shannon entered the Golden Land... it's either a dream, a metaphor for her consciousness, (or unconsciousness for that matter) during her 'oh I am one yet confused as hell' alter-ego times...
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Old 2011-02-01, 19:54   Link #21855
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I'll agree with you that sometimes I think Aura should tone down his/her aggressive language, but lets be honest here. Bastard is the term used to describe exactly what Yasu is. In the context, its not a "swear word."

And how would I explain the Yasu/Shanon tea party? A discussion in her mind between her (Yasu's) different aspects. One part of Yasu wishes to be free and terrorize the mansion as a "witch" because of how terrible her life is while the other (Yasu) realizes that there are joys even in her simple life as a maid that she doesn't want to abandon (love, Battler). And to take it a step further, she's almost always sleeping when the tea parties occur, so hell, chalk it off as a dream if that fits your fancy more.
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Old 2011-02-01, 20:02   Link #21856
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Shannon seems to start as an imaginary rolemodel/ friend and gradually become what Yasu thinks of herself as as she improves her abilities as a maid. That'd what it means when the human Yasu "dissappears", I think.

Although I wouldn't think the fantasy bits are limited purely to dreams (she's probably also pretty delusional).
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Old 2011-02-01, 20:04   Link #21857
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Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
No it's all stuff said in the game. Really reread it.
Actually, "said" is the key there. It's believed to be true by certain people. Whether it is true basically has nothing to do with it though.
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Old 2011-02-01, 20:08   Link #21858
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I don't know, every time she enters Beatrice's Golden Utopia is when she's apparently asleep, as she gets out of bed after every session. I don't think she actually buys into any of her crap; she's too coherent and talented at weaving these lies and stories; she's just very, very, very elaborate and engrossed in her personal fantasies and pretending, like a Live Action Role Player with no social life outside of it.

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Actually, "said" is the key there. It's believed to be true by certain people. Whether it is true basically has nothing to do with it though.
Yea, but when the alternative the other guy is giving is "She's either an incest baby or she's a supernatural witch..."

At the very least, the incest thing is something we're beat over the head with; saying the possibility isn't there and that it must definitely be Alternate Possibility X is just denial.
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Old 2011-02-01, 21:19   Link #21859
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
A bastard is someone born of an illegitimate relationship.

"Shitty" describes a life of poor, undesirable, and pitiable circumstances.

If you can't deal with swear words, you're free to go back to third grade.



They happen while Shannon is ASLEEP. As in she is dreaming. As in that thing you do where you can do whatever you want because it's not real and only in your head.

Goodness gracious, are you serious?!
it seems like you sometimes talk in aggressive way,thats you personality so i won't talk about it anymore.

so thats your explaination about their tea party.im ok with it,i also think it that way.
there's still something you can't explain without magic,can you explain how yasu take berune's key from the key ring then put it into berune's locker?
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Old 2011-02-01, 21:21   Link #21860
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I can offer one explanation. Yasu already pulled the key off her own master keychain and put it in Berune's locker in advance. She then swapped her incomplete keychain for Berune's complete one while her back was turned (which would take very little time and make very little noise).

Note that the setup means that Yasu wouldn't've needed that specific key on the way in, since Berune opened the room.
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