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Old 2011-02-02, 00:19   Link #21881
Judoh
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Originally Posted by unsuspectingvisitor View Post
but still yasu pretending to be shannon and kanon is impossible ,i remember that there are many scene in the game that shows both of them at the same time.im still looking for it
They're never together unless they're by themselves or there's no reliable point of view to see it. Which is the whole point.

Out of curiosity in Episode 7 when Will asks Shannon to bring Kanon so he can question both of them and she can't, what did you think about that scene?
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Old 2011-02-02, 00:19   Link #21882
delita-umw-
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While they do appear many times together throughout the novel, one thing you'll note is that they never both show up together around Battler, who is generally accepted as one of the few (only?) reliable points of view in the whole story. So essentially any depiction of Shanon and Kanon together is probably from an unreliable source, ie it probably didn't happen.
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Old 2011-02-02, 00:21   Link #21883
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Originally Posted by unsuspectingvisitor View Post
oh yeah padding i saw one of those before ,many girls wear it alot. O.o
but still yasu pretending to be shannon and kanon is impossible ,i remember that there are many scene in the game that shows both of them at the same time.im still looking for it
Scenes with the two of them alone means it's Yasu's active imagination in the works.

Scenes with the two of them with someone else only occur during the Games, if it wasn't Genji/Kumasawa/Nanjo. They appear to be two separate entities, but they're not.
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Old 2011-02-02, 00:25   Link #21884
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Thinking back on it, I almost wish Yasu was literally playing out all the parts shes supposedly does in the novel. Ep 2 with Kanon kissing Beatrice's feet would be possibly the funniest scene if Yasu tried acting it out simultaneously.
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Old 2011-02-02, 00:41   Link #21885
unsuspectingvisitor
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Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
They're never together unless they're by themselves or there's no reliable point of view to see it. Which is the whole point.

Out of curiosity in Episode 7 when Will asks Shannon to bring Kanon so he can question both of them and she can't, what did you think about that scene?
yeah that seems suspicius.i think the game master bernkastel doesn't want Will to question both kanon and shannon about beatrice,i think the reason was to prevent directly showing the truth to Will.


anyways,i found a scene where we can see them together with other servants.in EP7 Kanon,Shannon,Kumasawa,and gohda where seen taking together about the epitapt and the gold.
its in chapter 8:journey to the golden land
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Old 2011-02-02, 00:42   Link #21886
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Originally Posted by unsuspectingvisitor View Post
yeah that seems suspicius.i think the game master bernkastel doesn't want Will to question both kanon and shannon about beatrice,i think the reason was to prevent directly showing the truth to Will.
But the reason she even brought him there in the first place was-
-forget it.
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Old 2011-02-02, 00:48   Link #21887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unsuspectingvisitor View Post
yeah that seems suspicius.i think the game master bernkastel doesn't want Will to question both kanon and shannon about beatrice,i think the reason was to prevent directly showing the truth to Will.


anyways,i found a scene where we can see them together with other servants.in EP7 Kanon,Shannon,Kumasawa,and gohda where seen taking together about the epitapt and the gold.
Did Gohda address BOTH? Did he say BOTH OF THEIR NAMES? I ignore Kumasawa, since she'd probably play along. But so long as Gohda didn't talk to both, it's just like Shannon with Yasu. He appears to be there and offers comments, but that does not mean they're heard by anyone but Shannon/Yasu.
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Old 2011-02-02, 00:51   Link #21888
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But the reason she even brought him there in the first place was-
-forget it.
to find who killed beatrice?
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Old 2011-02-02, 00:55   Link #21889
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Originally Posted by unsuspectingvisitor View Post
to find who killed beatrice?
You need to learn not to take every single thing shown in Umineko seriously.

It isn't just "who killed Beatrice?"

Bernkastel took him there to expose the whole truth, so she could rip the riddle's guts out. Why wouldn't she reveal the whole truth to Will, when Will finding the truth is EXACTLY WHAT SHE WANTS?
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Old 2011-02-02, 01:29   Link #21890
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Did Gohda address BOTH? Did he say BOTH OF THEIR NAMES? I ignore Kumasawa, since she'd probably play along. But so long as Gohda didn't talk to both, it's just like Shannon with Yasu. He appears to be there and offers comments, but that does not mean they're heard by anyone but Shannon/Yasu.
he's responding to them you know,im playing it right know so im sure about it.
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You need to learn not to take every single thing shown in Umineko seriously.

It isn't just "who killed Beatrice?"

Bernkastel took him there to expose the whole truth, so she could rip the riddle's guts out. Why wouldn't she reveal the whole truth to Will, when Will finding the truth is EXACTLY WHAT SHE WANTS?
i didn't say the only reason is to find "who kill beatrice",i myself wasn't sure what the reason so i put a question mark in it.
there's another reason came on my mind,to do beatrice's funeral?

anyways,she just reveal the truth that she found to Lion and Ange, in the end the whole truth wasn't found but the witch of theater going found the key because of it.
What kind of key do you think the witch of theater going found ?
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Old 2011-02-02, 01:42   Link #21891
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Quote:
yeah that seems suspicius.i think the game master bernkastel doesn't want Will to question both kanon and shannon about beatrice,i think the reason was to prevent directly showing the truth to Will.
That's the exact opposite of what Bern wants; also, the only problem was Shannon and Kanon talking to Will at the same time. He can talk to either one just fine.

Quote:
he's responding to them you know,im playing it right know so im sure about it.
It's also a scene being narrated by Yasu, who includes fantasy and magical elements, meaning it's laced with metaphor and symbolism. Whenever Shannon and Kanon appear together in her narration, they behave as if only one person were really there, and they're addressed collectively by whoever is speaking to them.

Quote:
anyways,she just reveal the truth that she found to Lion and Ange, in the end the whole truth wasn't found but the witch of theater going found the key because of it.
What kind of key do you think the witch of theater going found ?
That's a whole other subject, as Bernkastel's show in the Tea Party doesn't address the Shannon and Kanon issue in any meaningful way.

Quote:
i didn't say the only reason is to find "who kill beatrice",i myself wasn't sure what the reason so i put a question mark in it.
there's another reason came on my mind,to do beatrice's funeral?
You don't seem to understand what "Who killed Beatrice?" and "Beatrice's Funeral" mean at all.
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Old 2011-02-02, 02:16   Link #21892
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You need to learn not to take every single thing shown in Umineko seriously.

It isn't just "who killed Beatrice?"

Bernkastel took him there to expose the whole truth, so she could rip the riddle's guts out. Why wouldn't she reveal the whole truth to Will, when Will finding the truth is EXACTLY WHAT SHE WANTS?
Well, let's not forget that Bern explicitly said she was going to twist the narration. Even if she's showing the truth, she can still use her presentation to influence readers into misinterpreting it.
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Old 2011-02-02, 02:21   Link #21893
unsuspectingvisitor
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post

That's a whole other subject, as Bernkastel's show in the Tea Party doesn't address the Shannon and Kanon issue in any meaningful way.

You don't seem to understand what "Who killed Beatrice?" and "Beatrice's Funeral" mean at all.
-so we can't advance to another topic? i don't have any idea what the "key" is so im just asking.

-thats why im here,in this forum,to talk to you guys so that i can understand many things about umineko
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Old 2011-02-02, 02:29   Link #21894
Judoh
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i don't have any idea what the "key" is so im just asking.
Ryukishi refers to a key sometimes in his interviews, when talking about "the truth". I have most of the interviews I could find here. I know he talks about it in the episode 6 ones.

Last edited by Judoh; 2011-02-02 at 02:43.
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Old 2011-02-02, 02:48   Link #21895
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Quote:
-so we can't advance to another topic? i don't have any idea what the "key" is so im just asking.
Well, the "key" is supposed to be "the thing that will solve all the mysteries when you figure it out." Some people think it's Shkanon, Bern tries to advance the idea that it's Kyrie and Rudolf as the culprits (though this idea doesn't work at all under any sort of scrutiny).
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Old 2011-02-02, 03:16   Link #21896
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Ryukishi refers to a key sometimes in his interviews, when talking about "the truth". I have most of the interviews I could find here. I know he talks about it in the episode 6 ones.
so the key can unlock the truth behind battler's escaped in that closed room
could it be that Shkanon theory is the "key"?

i can see one problem on this theory though,in ep7 battler was save by kanon while shannon is trap the next room over.if yasu pretend to be kanon and save battler then who pretend to be shannon?
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Old 2011-02-02, 03:18   Link #21897
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The existence of Yasu's mystery game was also an excellent key, at least as far as the closed rooms were concerned--

...OH. Remember how it didn't make sense for Natsuhi to keep Kinzo's corpse around because she was planning to have him go missing? She didn't. Yasu did it behind her back, both to have a spare corpse for the game she was already planning and to get a little revenge against Kinzo.

Damn, I feel stupid. That should have been obvious by EP5 at the latest.
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Old 2011-02-02, 04:00   Link #21898
Judoh
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i can see one problem on this theory though,in ep7 battler was save by kanon while shannon is trap the next room over.if yasu pretend to be kanon and save battler then who pretend to be shannon?
The Cousin's room is the one that's a perfect closed room. The next room over is the room where the seal on the window is unconfirmed, and people can leave.
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Old 2011-02-02, 04:12   Link #21899
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i can't see how it works though,shannon and yasu is only one person?
You've been saying about this Shkanon stuff here and there so why did you wonder about Shannon being Yasu ?? I can't really understand your way of thinking

This is rather weird ..
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Old 2011-02-02, 04:25   Link #21900
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You probably missed it Alviam, but he has been arguing for Kanontrice rather than Shkanontrice
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