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Old 2011-02-04, 10:06   Link #21
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On related news. did Deen ever created original anime? it seem they plan one
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Old 2011-02-04, 11:31   Link #22
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Dragon Crisis, like the majority of anime these days, has source material. That may not be their fault. Plus, balancing slow moments with fast ones is a vital technique in writing anything. You need moments of downtime in between action.
But for an anime like Dragon Crisis if your anime starts off with strong action, you need to continue for atleast three to four more episodes and then you can slow it down. that way, it'll smoothen the flow of the series

Look at A Certain Magical Index. The first 3 episodes of season 1 were really action and strong scenes and after all of that is over it continues to slow down for episode 4. Now, try and compare the first 4 episodes of Index with the first 4 episodes (including this week's episode) of Dragon Crisis. You can see how smooth the episodes of Index are written, whereas the you can see how Dragon Crisis's episodes are badly flowed in it's writing.
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Old 2011-02-04, 11:39   Link #23
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On related news. did Deen ever created original anime? it seem they plan one
Does Hell Girl and Simoun count for example?
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Old 2011-02-04, 11:39   Link #24
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Originally Posted by Taufiq91 View Post
But for an anime like Dragon Crisis if your anime starts off with strong action, you need to continue for atleast three to four more episodes and then you can slow it down. that way, it'll smoothen the flow of the series
Every series has a different pace. What works in one may not necessarily work in all of them.
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Old 2011-02-04, 12:19   Link #25
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Originally Posted by Taufiq91 View Post
But for an anime like Dragon Crisis if your anime starts off with strong action, you need to continue for atleast three to four more episodes and then you can slow it down. that way, it'll smoothen the flow of the series

Look at A Certain Magical Index. The first 3 episodes of season 1 were really action and strong scenes and after all of that is over it continues to slow down for episode 4. Now, try and compare the first 4 episodes of Index with the first 4 episodes (including this week's episode) of Dragon Crisis. You can see how smooth the episodes of Index are written, whereas the you can see how Dragon Crisis's episodes are badly flowed in it's writing.
Index had 24 episodes to work with, Dragon Crisis has 12, you can't possibly use the same kind of pacing technique.

I like the pacing for Dragon Crisis, at least it explains most of the stuff and not another one-cour anime catered to the ADD crowd like many others.

But still...for DEEN i like Kore wa Zombie Desu ka? better this season.
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Old 2011-02-04, 13:00   Link #26
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the thing that deen tend to be better at compare to most of studio out there is......Comedy.

i bet most of us agree with this
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Old 2011-02-04, 13:56   Link #27
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the thing that deen tend to be better at compare to most of studio out there is......Comedy.

i bet most of us agree with this
I do not, at least, not completely.

I agree that DEEN does comedy very well, but I think there are studios that can do it better, in particular SHAFT.
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Old 2011-02-04, 14:05   Link #28
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I do not, at least, not completely.

I agree that DEEN does comedy very well, but I think there are studios that can do it better, in particular SHAFT.
shaft particularly simply strange comedy. sometimes it takes me minute to understand it which make it less comedic.

no anime so far more awesome than law of ueki in comedy genre
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Old 2011-02-04, 17:13   Link #29
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shaft particularly simply strange comedy. sometimes it takes me minute to understand it which make it less comedic.

no anime so far more awesome than law of ueki in comedy genre
Every company got their style of comedy that they're recognized for, Shaft like you have mentioned, does strange comedy plus they rely on visual cues... Kyoani has that tsukkomi/boke style down to an art form ever since Haruhi and Lucky Star... JC Staff are the king of parodies, they'll parody their own parodies if given the chance to...

Studio Deen... I'm not sure, I only have Seitokai no Ichizon as a sample Maybe that's a one off?
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Old 2011-02-04, 17:30   Link #30
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Every company got their style of comedy that they're recognized for, Shaft like you have mentioned, does strange comedy plus they rely on visual cues... Kyoani has that tsukkomi/boke style down to an art form ever since Haruhi and Lucky Star... JC Staff are the king of parodies, they'll parody their own parodies if given the chance to...

Studio Deen... I'm not sure, I only have Seitokai no Ichizon as a sample Maybe that's a one off?
yeah id agree with you that every company have different style.

deen style is of comedy is... random and mix to say. seitokai no ichizon is parody style. kore wa zombie is slapstick. law of ueki is .. normal mix comedy to say.

pretty much is hard to see which direction is deen heading
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Old 2011-02-04, 18:26   Link #31
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Studio Deen... I'm not sure, I only have Seitokai no Ichizon as a sample Maybe that's a one off?
I'd say it's a bit off, even though Deen is really all over the place in terms of style. But visually, I found it pretty different from what I normally associate with the studio. Not that it's a bad thing; not at all. I thought Seitokai no Ichizon looked gorgeous, and it was fantastically entertaining to boot. One of the better comedies in recent memory. (Off-topic, but with Working!! and Ika Musume this year, it seems we're having a lot of good comedies recently.)
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Old 2011-02-04, 19:19   Link #32
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Ah, perhaps I'm in the same boat. I'll probably never play a VN much to the disdain of some of my friends. The other thing is that many fans tend to pass the VNs as the best thing ever. Not all, of course, but enough to grate on my nerves when they all go "PLAY THE VN" constantly and think that every criticism of the show is an attack against the sacred source.
The problem I see with that statement is that you automatically assume that people that are making such suggestion all the time are considering the original material as "sacred" whatsoever.
I don't understand that conclusion of yours, because the issue here is that to demonstrate a point, you need to expose the facts regarding the problem, and the only way possible to show how an adaptation is faulty is to redirect people to the original material, plain and simple.

I don't think it is an unreasonable suggestion, considering it would take too much time to summary what went wrong with DEEN adaptation of a given series, be it because of a inherent issue of their direction or because they are taking a lot of liberties.

It is obvious people becomes quite upset when the material isn't adapted correctly but it doesn't mean they consider the material being flawless. However, let me ask this question: why would anyone change something that works well, if they are adapting?
Let's take Higurashi for example: Why did Chiaki Kon decided to make Keiichi give -1- doll in the second arc? Would it take more time for them to make Keiichi actually giving everyone a doll except to Mion?
The difference on paper is minimalistic, but if you know the context, you realize the difference is actually huge and involves a weird sense of incompatilibility (why would Mion feel it unfair, where there was only "1" doll? Not as much if you consider everyone receiving one, and Rena a second one).
This example is "critical" character wise, but does not have a huge impact on the plot. Can we have a coherent story anyway? Probably, but would it hurt to have that point anyway? No, it would have been more coherent and favorable actually.
And I've just taken the "least" serious of their inane direction choice for Higurashi, if we were going to start with critical holes they left, it will be neverending.

Whereas there are fans that are nitpicking few details, the vast majority (be it Naku koro ni, or FSN fans) aren't asking the impossible, and few points that make the story coherent would appease them, but they just fail terribly.

As far as overzealous fans can be unbearable when they preach perfection for the souce material, it is also a big prejudice to sum every source material fans being at least critical with the adaptation like that, when glaring issues are here (and we aren't talking about production value issues, but coherent details and PLOT parts).

I personally think that adaptation should be considered as an -anime- conversion of a material, which means you are obviously going to need transitions and "shortcuts" with many things, mainly narrations, monologues etc.
However, an adaptation becomes only acceptable when it does convey the general headlines and -essence- of the original material. An adaptation cannot be called as such if they simply fail to convey that, and that doesn't require you to be textbook (Kyoto Animation took liberties with some of their adaptations, but remained on the actual context and coherence of the story for instance (example: Kotomi's implication with the drama club after her arc)).
And in the case of Deen, their recents adaptations are nowhere close to be either "adaptation" or coherent direction.
The only "exception" to this statement is Seitokai no Ichizon, but being mainly comedy, it doesn't really require such attention as an adaptation (and production values were sacked instead).

Last edited by Klashikari; 2011-02-04 at 19:31.
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Old 2011-02-04, 20:05   Link #33
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
The problem I see with that statement is that you automatically assume that people that are making such suggestion all the time are considering the original material as "sacred" whatsoever.
I don't understand that conclusion of yours, because the issue here is that to demonstrate a point, you need to expose the facts regarding the problem, and the only way possible to show how an adaptation is faulty is to redirect people to the original material, plain and simple.
My point is that I feel like when I criticize a show, many people think that I hate the original story. I can't hate what I don't know about-- I'm just complaining about what's on the screen. It is perhaps a problem when I try to engage in conversation with any fandom.


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I don't think it is an unreasonable suggestion, considering it would take too much time to summary what went wrong with DEEN adaptation of a given series, be it because of a inherent issue of their direction or because they are taking a lot of liberties.
You have a point there. It is probably due to the fact that it would be tiresome to go over each and every one of the problems and explain it to someone.

Quote:
Whereas there are fans that are nitpicking few details, the vast majority (be it Naku koro ni, or FSN fans) aren't asking the impossible, and few points that make the story coherent would appease them, but they just fail terribly.
I understand that sentiment too. Nobody sane would have expected a faithful rendition of Unlimited Blade Works in 100 minutes. But the clear lack of effort put into the narratives (aka none) would even sour even the least of expectations.

It's not like I don't understand why people would be angry at Deen. I was upset myself, I could only imagine the rage was 100x for others. I'll be honest, this movie made me think "Wow, maybe everyone was right that it is Deen's fault." And then Ufotable will be doing Zero... hmm!

So I'd wonder; does it feel like there just no genuine effort in their latest adaptations?

Quote:
I personally think that adaptation should be considered as an -anime- conversion of a material, which means you are obviously going to need transitions and "shortcuts" with many things, mainly narrations, monologues etc.
However, an adaptation becomes only acceptable when it does convey the general headlines and -essence- of the original material. An adaptation cannot be called as such if they simply fail to convey that, and that doesn't require you to be textbook (Kyoto Animation took liberties with some of their adaptations, but remained on the actual context and coherence of the story for instance (example: Kotomi's implication with the drama club after her arc)).
Fair enough.
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Old 2011-02-04, 23:52   Link #34
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This is thoroughly ancient history, but Studio Deen did a good job on Maison Ikkoku.

I'm not a fan of their recent titles though. I liked Fate stay/night when I first watched it, but then I played the VN later and wasn't as impressed with the anime. I played Higurashi first and didn't make it past the first two episodes of the anime because it looked so horrible. Not that the VN looked all that better, but the character designs in the VN at least had a quirky style that grew on me, while the anime just looked terrible.
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Old 2011-02-05, 00:08   Link #35
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Well, I had to look up Studio DEEN on Anime News Network to see what exactly they've made and what I've watched. Turns out I've seen very little series that they've completely animated; most of them are in-between animation, which I don't think entails a lot of control on their side.

Most notably, from their record I saw Hetalia, Hell Girl, and Fruits Basket. Each is a vastly different show that carries a completely different style. Hetalia is obviously pretty cheaply produced: although the anime makes due with what its budget is you can tell from the brightly painted colors and surprising lack of backgrounds that they didn't have too much to work with. But much like Shaft's series Pani Poni Dash, Hetalia makes due with its budget. So there's nothing too terribly wrong with that one.

Hell Girl is a series I've noticed a drop of quality in. Compare the first episode and the third episode and you'll notice an extreme drop in quality. Characters are often off model and badly shaded. Only Ai stands out from the rest of them. The same scenes are also reused to a ridiculous point: the way she puts on her kimono and takes off in her carriage come to mind. It seems Ai and her world were the only things Studio DEEN actually put effort into.

It's been awhile since I've seen Fruits Basket but I don't remember anything too terribly wrong with the animation. I remember a lot of fans making a fuss about the way the series ended: I don't remember how far along the manga was at that point, though.

Basically, yes, Studio DEEN is very cheap: they have low budgets and often have off model characters and inconsistent animation. Having purposefully avoided the Higurashi fanchise I don't know how they managed to butcher that one. However, I don't think it deserves such intense hatred. I've had manga I've loved butchered much, much worse than anything DEEN has ever produced. Studio DEEN is probably best when helping produce a show: when they helm an entire project themselves they just don't have the budget or talent to carry it out.
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Old 2011-02-05, 00:30   Link #36
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well that the weakness that deen have. they technically quantity over quality studio. they technically have potential to awesome in animation (UBW).
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Old 2011-02-05, 00:37   Link #37
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So I'd wonder; does it feel like there just no genuine effort in their latest adaptations?
If you're referring to story treatment, I can't say much about their manga adaptations. I don't read enough manga or watch enough Deen shows to know. However, Giant Killing has a pretty good reputation (adapted by Toshifumi Kawase, the same person who handled Higurashi and Umineko), and the show was genuinely fun to watch.

As for visual novel adaptations, I'd say that Deen is actually above average. Few studios give these things the time of day, with the bulk going to lower tier studios (who don't give a damn either but take whatever work they can get) like ZEXCS, feel, TNK, Dogakobo, etc. Popular sources like Tsukihime and Chaos;Head were produced by more reputable studios, yet the outcomes were equally bad.

Quote:
Nobody sane would have expected a faithful rendition of Unlimited Blade Works in 100 minutes. But the clear lack of effort put into the narratives (aka none) would even sour even the least of expectations.
That might be what Geneon asked for - it's impossible to say. Clearly, UBW was made as mere eye candy for F/SN fans.
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Old 2011-02-05, 01:14   Link #38
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That might be what Geneon asked for - it's impossible to say. Clearly, UBW was made as mere eye candy for F/SN fans.
No it wasn't. The art and animation was poor for a film, and very uninspired IMO. It's especially displeasing when they also change how the fights were supposed to be animated to flashy lights pew pew.

The film wasn't for the fans, newbies, or fate night anime fans. All around failure on every front.
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Old 2011-02-05, 01:28   Link #39
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The film wasn't for anyone. All around failure on every front.
Fixed your post
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Old 2011-02-05, 01:46   Link #40
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No it wasn't. The art and animation was poor for a film, and very uninspired IMO. It's especially displeasing when they also change how the fights were supposed to be animated to flashy lights pew pew.

The film wasn't for the fans, newbies, or fate night anime fans. All around failure on every front.
That was DEEN's best work in terms of animation, I would say.

Might not be the best animation for movies per se.
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