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Old 2011-02-04, 13:12   Link #61
Akiyoshi
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Personally, I think we should not spend too much thought on the whole breaking iceberg thing. This looks like the same level of contradiction that Kamijou Touma's Imagine Breaker and Asuna's Magic Cancel suffer from, and those debates (particularly the Imagine Breaker one) are still going on despite starting years ago.
Again, that's another of the reasons of why i hate Anti-Magic, it's pretty inconsistent about what can negate and what not(ie. whatever the plot needs to be negated/un-negated). So yeah, it doesen't have much purpouse discussing that, just say that the Iceberg fall quickly appart because the laws pf physics and Hayate needs to concentrate the magic to maintain the thing solid until it makes contact with the Huckship.

EDIT: Page claimed for annoying Anti-Magic inconsistency xDU.
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Old 2011-02-04, 13:18   Link #62
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Eh, I've found the anti-magic to be pretty consistent. It's seems quite clear to me that de-linking a spell takes focus, and when it happens, it forces the magic particles apart.

That fits with everything seen so far, including the ice berg. Hayate has a lot of power, so it's interesting that with enough power, you can begin to counter an Eclipse person; it's simply a matter of power vs. power. Who is stronger? Also, who is smarter? The big iceberg may have been broken apart, but Hayate quickly forced the magic particles back and reorganized it into many pieces, making it much, much harder to deal with. That apparently forced Karen to attack Hayate and break her concentration.

The only thing that bothers me, is that Hayate should have had time to have the pieces attack the Huck's ship. After Karen breaks up the big one, she goes after Erio and Vita first, and then Hayate. While Karen was going after Erio and Vita, Hayate should have time to have the pieces attack, unless Karen is really freakin' fast. Then again, it is hard to tell time in a manga, heh.
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Old 2011-02-04, 13:19   Link #63
Tiresias
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Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
That's the whole draw of Tekken Chinmi though.

Dynamic fight scenes, and nothing else. Despite being very drawn-out, the flow behind Chinmi is evident, and the author makes the effort to piece every part of the action while making each page tightly structured.
Now that I think about it, Chinmi was also a good example of a series that's still enjoyable despite the slow update (I don't know what's the case in Japan, but in my place it took at least a year and a half before a new volume were published). It's clear that the mangaka knew how he want the action scenes be; the succession of moves were detailed and sometimes we're also treated with the protagonists internal thought on their battle analysis.

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The opposite of Force, where it's quite evident the artist isn't very good at framing and bringing the flow of fight scenes into the small frames and storyboards in the manga. It feels like the artist knows how to storyboard for anime or simple 'plot' manga, but not so much for action manga. ( Shina Dark had this draggy feeling too with that bull-fight. )
Indeed, it's quite difficult to figure out how the fights went. Especially evident during the "Boarding Huckebein's Ship" scene; all we see were short bits Erio shooting his cannon, Subaru stopping a blade with her hand, Fate locked in melee...and then, Zero Eclipse! ...That's it?

---

Regarding Heimdall, I think Hayate should've used the force her magic to gather nearby rocks and other solid object before reaching the ocean and fling them on the enemy ship; she won't have to worry about the Hucks AMF-ing the projectiles, while using Heimdall she must also maintain her magically generated iceberg.
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Old 2011-02-04, 13:36   Link #64
Akiyoshi
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Originally Posted by Tiresias View Post
Regarding Heimdall, I think Hayate should've used the force her magic to gather nearby rocks and other solid object before reaching the ocean and fling them on the enemy ship; she won't have to worry about the Hucks AMF-ing the projectiles, while using Heimdall she must also maintain her magically generated iceberg.
Taking into consideration that Hayate is apparently de-unisoned during the scene i'm inclined to what Kaijo says abor her receiving a lot of strain by forming and maintaining the thing solid. It was indeed a smart move from Karen's part to stab her AND hurt two of her people to obligue Hayate to aid them.
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Old 2011-02-04, 14:08   Link #65
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Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
They didn't now when the threat of Carim's prophecy would end, so they probably just said, "uh, 1 year" to the upper brass. Thus they lasted 1 year.
Genya said HQ wanted to keep RF6 operational and it was Hayate's decision to shut down, supposedly due to her belief she wasn't skilled enough to run it.

Carim also mentioned that RF6 would have to succeed in cases after the Relics case to survive, back during the Train incident. Though she might have been referring to the prophecy.

Back to the previous discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo
But Cypha plainly said she had moved, and then asked what Signum would do. That put the ball in Signum's court, and we see what Signum's choice of action was.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanya01
Except that is Cyper attacking and Signum blocking. Signum is still vertical, but Cypher is leaning forward. You don't lean forward into other peoples attacks when blocking, but you do lean towards them on a lunge, so Cypher was attacking.

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Originally Posted by Nanya01
I note you've missed the previous page where Signum says Cypher is stronger than expected. The one that tells us Signum knows Cypher is stronger than the average flight capable mage at this point and can fly. Even Fate in her high speed modes has some defenses.

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Originally Posted by 00-Raiser
And yet when they see how Thoma chooses to go off and die, they call him a pansy emo kid.
Weird, I remember calling that one of the two ethical options Thoma tried to take.

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Originally Posted by Tiresias
And speaking of unrealistic, this is the series where a 19-year old can become a lieutenant colonel, as if military ranks are the new power level (you're supposed to promote an officer based on her command skill and experience, not by the ability to shoot big laser beams)...
She has roughly 10 years in service at the beginning of StrikerS doesn't she?

Assuming ten years service in the US Army, it isn't unusual to have reached Major. So she's only one rank high. British Army I understand has different limits and Lt Colonel might be theoretically possible in 10 years.

It might be better if she was a Major but it isn't more than a grade out. And the Imperial Japanese Military [to name an example that might have influenced the writers] had a policy that officers decorated for conspicuous gallantry could be excused a time in grade requirement and end up a rank [or possibly more] ahead of where the usual restrictions would place them.

Of course TSAB as we know has a rule that limits recognition of that sort to units.
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Old 2011-02-04, 15:22   Link #66
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Originally Posted by Koveras Alvane View Post
My Japanese contacts say that it was Cypha who destroyed the iceberg by simply slashing away at it. It seems that even though the ice was formed with magic, it was, in itself, held together by basic laws of physics. Hayate tried to meld the pieces back together and that's when she got stabbed by Karen.
fffff

I KNEW she'd get in the way somehow.

And if I was Karen, I'd just have ignored Vita and Erio altogether and stabbed Hayate in a way that'd make sure she'd die unless she received treatment immediately. If they want to keep firing uselessly while their CO bleeds out, then that's their business.
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Old 2011-02-04, 15:23   Link #67
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Originally Posted by dahak View Post
Except that is Cyper attacking and Signum blocking. Signum is still vertical, but Cypher is leaning forward. You don't lean forward into other peoples attacks when blocking, but you do lean towards them on a lunge, so Cypher was attacking.
Or that Signum attacked, and Cypha went to meet that attack. Again, they were on equal footing, so the only way for Signum to get above her is if she leaped at her.

Plus, like I said Signum set her sword on fire. That's pretty much screams "I'm gonna attack you now."

Who attacked first isn't clear and not really relevant anyways.

And it's Cypha, not Cypher.
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Old 2011-02-05, 09:18   Link #68
Tiresias
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Originally Posted by dahak View Post
Genya said HQ wanted to keep RF6 operational and it was Hayate's decision to shut down, supposedly due to her belief she wasn't skilled enough to run it.

Carim also mentioned that RF6 would have to succeed in cases after the Relics case to survive, back during the Train incident. Though she might have been referring to the prophecy.
Wait, I thought RF6 was a Task Force created specifically to deal with the increasingly dangerous Scaglietti case, and it was disbanded because it had served it purpose? Just like Mobile Section 6 was created specifically to deal with Huckebein?

Quote:
She has roughly 10 years in service at the beginning of StrikerS doesn't she?

Assuming ten years service in the US Army, it isn't unusual to have reached Major. So she's only one rank high. British Army I understand has different limits and Lt Colonel might be theoretically possible in 10 years.
Nine (a few months of medical recovery), but IIRC while she didn't attend senior high she did attend junior high, which means that she spent three years as a part-time soldier. And did she even attend a military academy?
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Old 2011-02-05, 09:30   Link #69
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Wait, I thought RF6 was a Task Force created specifically to deal with the increasingly dangerous Scaglietti case, and it was disbanded because it had served it purpose? Just like Mobile Section 6 was created specifically to deal with Huckebein?
No, RF6 was supposed to deal with any cases that needed a fast mobile elite unite to deal with LL.

Hayate herself decided to disband it when she admitted she wasn't ready.
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Old 2011-02-05, 09:50   Link #70
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Originally Posted by Arkeus View Post
No, RF6 was supposed to deal with any cases that needed a fast mobile elite unite to deal with LL.

Hayate herself decided to disband it when she admitted she wasn't ready.
How about Mobile Section 6, then? Huckebein-specific or the realization of the 'fast mobile elite unit' concept?
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Old 2011-02-05, 12:09   Link #71
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Originally Posted by Arkeus View Post
No, RF6 was supposed to deal with any cases that needed a fast mobile elite unite to deal with LL.

Hayate herself decided to disband it when she admitted she wasn't ready.
Source?

Because Hayate herself discloses the real reason for RF6 to Nanoha and Fate, when carim's powers are explained: it was to deal with her prophecy, which sees things that happen up to a year into the future. 1 year; sound familiar? Exactly how long RF6 was scheduled to last.

At the beginning of StrikerS with the airport fire and the girls are laying in bed, Hayate gives her speech about wanting a command of her own, one that can rapidly respond to incidents. By this point, they had several encounters with gadget drones seeking relics, and so officially, she was allowed her experimental unit (which had an unbelievable amount of mage power) to be formed with the official purpose of dealing with the Relic Lost Logia cases. Hayate figured it was interconnected with Carim's prophecy and the cyborg incident, and the fact that they had found abandoned labs. Something was going on, and Hayate made a lot of educated guesses to get her official reason for RF6 to exist.

As Genya said, "That's one smart little girl."
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Old 2011-02-05, 13:11   Link #72
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I think the '1 year' time limit isn't important, since Riot Force 6 was in the making for 4 years before it was actually put together.

It was only meant to deal with the Relic Case/Carim's prophesy, but the Admirals were backing it as a trial basis to see how an elite unit outside the chain of command would function.
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Old 2011-02-05, 13:12   Link #73
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Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
Source?

Because Hayate herself discloses the real reason for RF6 to Nanoha and Fate, when carim's powers are explained: it was to deal with her prophecy, which sees things that happen up to a year into the future. 1 year; sound familiar? Exactly how long RF6 was scheduled to last.
That's the present reason Hayate could convince people, sure.

It's also not a reason that was possible when hayate talked about it to nanoha/fate earlier on, nor is it the reason she had the support of the harlaown.

When Hayate gives briefing about the goals of RF6, it is not just about Jail, but about the need for a fast moving team to go against LL in many different places.

Hayate canonically managed to do that with the help of the prophecy coming just at the right time, but she tried from a while before, and it's *also* Canon that it was her choice, and only her choice, to have RF6 disband.
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Old 2011-02-05, 13:40   Link #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkeus View Post
That's the present reason Hayate could convince people, sure.

It's also not a reason that was possible when hayate talked about it to nanoha/fate earlier on, nor is it the reason she had the support of the harlaown.

When Hayate gives briefing about the goals of RF6, it is not just about Jail, but about the need for a fast moving team to go against LL in many different places.

Hayate canonically managed to do that with the help of the prophecy coming just at the right time, but she tried from a while before, and it's *also* Canon that it was her choice, and only her choice, to have RF6 disband.
So you have no source. Okay.

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Originally Posted by 00-Raiser View Post
I think the '1 year' time limit isn't important, since Riot Force 6 was in the making for 4 years before it was actually put together.

It was only meant to deal with the Relic Case/Carim's prophesy, but the Admirals were backing it as a trial basis to see how an elite unit outside the chain of command would function.
This is true, but it's the best justification I can find based on what has been said. Carim's prophecies are directly said to see things up to a limited time in the future. Hayate's command was an experiment with a lot of power. The conversation between Regius and Auris basically said it was only being allowed to exist for a limited time as an experiment.
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Old 2011-02-05, 14:56   Link #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
So you have no source. Okay.
IIRC - Sound Stages...
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Old 2011-02-05, 15:24   Link #76
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*Looks at extras of the new NanoFate release*

Heh, figures the only Force Dimension to get translated in awhile is something like that
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Old 2011-02-05, 17:22   Link #77
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Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
So you have no source. Okay.



This is true, but it's the best justification I can find based on what has been said. Carim's prophecies are directly said to see things up to a limited time in the future. Hayate's command was an experiment with a lot of power. The conversation between Regius and Auris basically said it was only being allowed to exist for a limited time as an experiment.
No it wasn't, and we *aready* said where the sources were (soundstage, and iirc DVDbooklet).
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Old 2011-02-05, 17:29   Link #78
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No it wasn't, and we *aready* said where the sources were (soundstage, and iirc DVDbooklet).
Specific soundstage and section? Specific DVD booklet entry?
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Old 2011-02-05, 22:59   Link #79
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I might be wrong, but could it have to be with the StrikerS manga, second(or third)-to-last chapter? I remember Hayate "going racoon" when she was told by... someone she was being a headache because of her actions (first getting to command RF6 and now, after eveything happened and having proved herself, wanted to stop too get more experience).

And hello.
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Old 2011-02-05, 23:31   Link #80
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It was Genya she was talking to.
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