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Old 2011-01-29, 13:08   Link #61
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Hm. How about something trivial like "animators reusing stock footage"? I'm not sure if I'd attribute all that much to the shot, tbh. But I'll rewatch it once more...
It's not trivial. Go look at it, there's even a sound cue marking the shot of that building. It's right there when Madoka is opening the exit door.

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Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
So what is the scene in your interpretation? Some far future?
Not that far. More like episode 10 or 11

Look at it this way:

In the dream, the only magical girl alive (at least in the city), Homura, is fighting witch!Sayaka. Something interesting about the way this scene plays out is that Madoka is getting out of the maze, and Homura and the witch are fighting in the real world. Anyway, in the worst possible moment, when Homura is in danger and Madoka is in despair, Kyubey appears, to do what he does best, try to contract a girl in despair. Now if you pay attention, you'll realize that Homura is shouting to Madoka, trying to prevent what she knows it's going to happen. The way it's animated and the fact that her voice is muted might make it hard to discern, but it's there.

So what I'm thinking about is that this "dream" is more like a precog. vision, and more specifically, a warning. The way it plays out and the clues now available point that way.

You could think of it as fated to happen or something. The only question would be, can it be avoided? Sayaka becoming a witch probably can't, but the most important thing: Madoka contracting with Kyubey... can that be avoided?
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2011-01-29 at 13:29.
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Old 2011-01-29, 13:41   Link #62
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One thing. I don't think it's the real world. In the fights with the other witches, they also always had to go through some kind of maze, the main stage being an alternate dimension, but technically still at the starting point. Because each time the witch was defeated, the alternate dimension reverted back and the real world came back to surface, Madoka etc. basically standing at the same point they entered the dimension. So I would guess that only within the dimension, the spectrum of the area changes and they need to go a certain way to reach the main stage / core area where the witch is. But in reality they don't actually move away from their location despite all the maze running.

Of course, I might as well be wrong and it's really the real world. That'd be severely shocking to me... lol
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Old 2011-01-29, 14:02   Link #63
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Of course, I might as well be wrong and it's really the real world. That'd be severely shocking to me... lol
There are clues. The fact that Madoka opens an EXIT door (marked as such) in order to get there, and the fact that the place is not a enclosed space, unlike all the mazes we have seen till now. They're fighting outside. It's the real world.

The fact that there's at least a known building (Kamijo's hospital) is also a hint of this being the real world.
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Old 2011-01-29, 14:31   Link #64
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Hmmmmh... still trying to wrap my head around this...

What is the significance of all this though? You expect Sayaka to become an uberpowered witch (that is constantly flying upside down) that's gonna wreck the real world? One that even Homura can't deal with? While Kyubey lingers around in the hopes to contract Madoka?

What's the meaning of this?
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Old 2011-01-29, 14:54   Link #65
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What's the meaning of this?
How would I know that? I'm just interpreting the clues and hints I see. The fact that these clues are there, well, is pretty much a fact. Whether my interpretation of them is correct or not, is a totally different matter. But maybe, because I'm no trying to fit this in some theory I had beforehand, and instead I'm just making conclusion based on the clues I see there, I'll end up being proved right. Don't you think?

Anyway, let's wait and see.
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Old 2011-01-29, 17:23   Link #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Hmmmmh... still trying to wrap my head around this...

What is the significance of all this though? You expect Sayaka to become an uberpowered witch (that is constantly flying upside down) that's gonna wreck the real world? One that even Homura can't deal with? While Kyubey lingers around in the hopes to contract Madoka?

What's the meaning of this?
While not sure I buy the theory it's pretty straight forward. We know so little about the overall situation that limiting the ideas of what witches are capable of or the variety in terms of power would be dangerous. You pretty much just put it together right there. A witch more powerful than Homura is hardly shocking, just because she's clearly strong doesn't mean witches more powerful can't show up. Plus the danger of the witch we have seen her beat was the surprise element.

In terms of the overall meaning does there need to be one? Could just be a sequence of events that leads to Madoka making her contract.

But anyways I don't think Sayaka is going to become unglued to the point that she's going to turn into a witch. Sure the guy may turn out to not be worth it, but still think she can recover from that. The real problem is surviving another girl coming after her in combination with that probable disappointment. Think the cast would be too weak right now if she goes down, so hopefully another reality behind the hints we've seen.
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Old 2011-01-31, 12:03   Link #67
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Sayaka got presence of mind, she thinks ahead.
When Charlotte was about to hatch she (and Kyubey) stayed with it so Mami would know where to go (unfortunately to her death).
In episode 4, she asked Kyubey what's going to happen with the city. If not for Kamijo's arm she might have waited until a new Puella Magi appears and turns out to do a lousy job before making a contract.
But i think she would have made one sooner or later. She's not the type to sit around and watch someone else go into danger, not the type to live or die at someone else mercy. And as Madoka has shown, even if there are strings attached, the contract offers at least a way to fight back. She entrusts the job to someone she knows will do it to the best of her ability, herself.
And of course she will regret it but do it anyway. But i don't think she will turn into a witch.

EDIT: Forgot last sentence.

Last edited by Spinell; 2011-01-31 at 14:11.
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Old 2011-01-31, 13:16   Link #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinell View Post
Sayaka got presence of mind, she thinks ahead.
When Charlotte was about to hatch she (and Kyubey) stayed with it so Mami would know where to go (unfortunately to her death).
In episode 4, she asked Kyubey what's going to happen with the city. If not for Kamijo's arm she might have waited until a new Puella Magi appears and turns out to do a lousy job before making a contract.
But i think she would have made one sooner or later. She's not the type to sit around and watch someone else go into danger, not the type to live or die at someone else mercy. And as Madoka has shown, even if there are strings attached, the contract offers at least a way to fight back. She entrusts the job to someone she knows will do it to the best of her ability, herself.
And of course she will regret it but do it anyway.
You make good points. Sayaka definitely has a fairly sharp mind on her. She's really thinking things through. Of course, there is always the chance we could regret anything we do, so we can only make the decision with what we know currently. Hindsight is 20/20, but you can't blame someone on that point.

Despite knowing the risks and what awaited her, she went ahead and made the choice. Good thing she did, too, or Madoka would be dead and we wouldn't have a series, heh.
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Old 2011-01-31, 16:20   Link #69
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Good thing she did, too, or Madoka would be dead and we wouldn't have a series, heh.
Or we could change the series' name to Magical Sayaka and keep rolling. I'd be cool with that.

Nah, I don't mind Madoka as a main character. She just needs more time to develop.
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Old 2011-02-04, 02:15   Link #70
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While not sure I buy the theory it's pretty straight forward. We know so little about the overall situation that limiting the ideas of what witches are capable of or the variety in terms of power would be dangerous. You pretty much just put it together right there. A witch more powerful than Homura is hardly shocking, just because she's clearly strong doesn't mean witches more powerful can't show up. Plus the danger of the witch we have seen her beat was the surprise element.

In terms of the overall meaning does there need to be one? Could just be a sequence of events that leads to Madoka making her contract.

But anyways I don't think Sayaka is going to become unglued to the point that she's going to turn into a witch. Sure the guy may turn out to not be worth it, but still think she can recover from that. The real problem is surviving another girl coming after her in combination with that probable disappointment. Think the cast would be too weak right now if she goes down, so hopefully another reality behind the hints we've seen.
People gave Kamijou a lot of crap and it looks like he's turning out to be quite the surprise.

Too many people suspected him to be ungrateful but I think the a nice Kamijou will have a much bigger impact on Sayaka than a negative Kamijou. Especially if he gets in danger
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Old 2011-02-04, 02:45   Link #71
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Realistically speaking, the behavior of Kamijou was normal. As someone who has seen such things numerous times, you get kinda spiteful to absurd degrees at times when you lose a major life activity. Its a stage of grief.

Though it looks like Sayaka having Madoka around saved her. Still, the train carryinng her doom is on the way, though it took a detour fpr awhile. You just dont get that many flags in one episode and turn up fine after the series.

Though next episode I expect Akemi to bitch at Sayaka, for having madoka around and putting her on the spot and such. I mean, she isnt thinking ahead very much. What did she think wuld happen to madoka if things went south?
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Old 2011-02-07, 20:57   Link #72
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So, after reading the wiki with the speculation on Sayaka, do I dare step into this thread, and see much of the same speculation.

...For this show, I can definitely see them going that route.

Prior to reading about witch!Sayaka, I had already theorized that witches were produced from the death of magical girls (or the soul, or the device that fuels their power, or something similar).

...but becoming one directly? Creepy as hell, though we know that there are a lot more witches than MGs, so there has to be something more to it.
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Old 2011-02-08, 13:26   Link #73
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Posting this over here,it's from the general thread,an interview of sayaka's seiyuu translated by cat_monster

Quote:
(general tenor)
・Ms. Kitamura says that she feels pity for Sayaka. She implys that Sayaka will be in a pitiable condition. But, she also implys there will be also a slim hope (or mercy? / 光 = light) for Sayaka.
・She says the expectations about Sayaka will be reversed over and over again.
・Sayaka is a keyperson. Chiwa Saito (Homura's voice actress) said to her, "Eri, you are lucky to play the role of Sayaka. Give it your all! "


I tried but the above might be not a good translation due to my poor English proficiency.
Especially, I am not sure about the translation of the words "かわいそうな方向にしか行かないかなぁ? いや、でも一寸の光は射してるんですよ?". There will be more suitable English expression than mine.
note on that last bit , sirn proposed this translation: ""she's going to move in a pitiful direction, but there's a ray of light at the end"



This interview makes me wonder if some havn't written Sayaka off too early,she might end up surviving the show,even if she'll suffer quite a lot.
What really intrigues me is that last bit,Sayaka a key character?Most people view Homura and QB as the key characters so for Homura's voice actress to say it might mean that Sayaka will be quite important to the plot
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Old 2011-02-08, 13:42   Link #74
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What really intrigues me is that last bit,Sayaka a key character?Most people view Homura and QB as the key characters so for Homura's voice actress to say it might mean that Sayaka will be quite important to the plot
Homura's VA could be trolling us. I'd say you shouldn't take VA's comments too seriously anyway.
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Old 2011-02-08, 18:41   Link #75
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This interview makes me wonder if some havn't written Sayaka off too early,she might end up surviving the show,even if she'll suffer quite a lot.
What really intrigues me is that last bit,Sayaka a key character?Most people view Homura and QB as the key characters so for Homura's voice actress to say it might mean that Sayaka will be quite important to the plot
I'm curious, why wouldn't Sayaka be important in the show (and this is ignoring my icon and sig)? She wouldn't be in there as fodder just to kill off: she isn't a character in a bad horror movie. She has her own motivations and she is incredibly important to Madoka, who was willing to become a Puella Magi for Sayaka's sake. Sayaka is going to stay alive because she is important. And yes, I believe the majority of the fandom has written Sayaka off because she hasn't done anything spectacular yet.

I guessed at the beginning of this anime that Sayaka would be a character pushed to the background and written off by both canon characters and fans as unimportant. Seems I was right, to some extent.
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Old 2011-02-08, 21:28   Link #76
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No one here (as fare as I can tell) is calling her unimportant after all she is one of the main cast members and without a doubt will serve a purpose for the story. However lets face the facts there have been more then a few hints that something bad is going to happen to Sayaka. So much that it's not even funny. Like with what she said a couple of episodes ago about " If I only knew the cost of miracles." that is her speaking in past tents which means the future just isn't looking so bright.
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Old 2011-02-08, 22:48   Link #77
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In another anime/manga I've been following, Fairy Tail, there were quite a few flags that someone else was gonna die. He's still alive thus far, and seemingly not in as much danger of dying now.

Flags are signs that you find only if you go looking for them. Anything you go looking for, you will find, even if it doesn't exist, or is there to mislead you.
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Old 2011-02-09, 09:46   Link #78
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Homura's VA could be trolling us. I'd say you shouldn't take VA's comments too seriously anyway.
Well, by the same rationale, all those Sayaka "death flags" that people have been talking about might just be trolling us, as well.

I'm actually a bit surprised that people are so convinced by that sort of stuff.

I mean, most folks here are very familiar with TV Tropes, and are aware of the concept of trope subversion. What if Shinbo and Urobuchi are aiming to really subvert tropes related to "death flags"? I'd honestly find that rather brilliant on their part.


If we take this seiyu interview at face value, I think it means that Sayaka gets badly maimed in combat but doesn't die. Perhaps she's hospitalized, and on the verge of death.
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Old 2011-02-09, 11:14   Link #79
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I mean, most folks here are very familiar with TV Tropes, and are aware of the concept of trope subversion. What if Shinbo and Urobuchi are aiming to really subvert tropes related to "death flags"? I'd honestly find that rather brilliant on their part.
"Death flags" is just regular foreshadowing (which means asserting possibility). Take for example episode 3: from the moment Homura warned Mami about Charlotte and Mami just brushed it off, Mami's dead was foreshadowed (meaning, it became a possibility). But on the other hand, you have genre conventions dictating that a main character from a magical girl show can not die in episode 3. So you have this contradiction between foreshadowing (the "flags") and genre conventions. It's an extremely cleaver way of writing, because it creates a great deal of dramatic tension and shock. Although, this writing is possible because Urobuchi intended to subvert genre conventions from the start.

That being said, I don't think what has been foreshadowed regarding Sayaka is her death. A lot of bad things are going to happen to her, that's for sure, but we still can not be sure she's going to die.
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Old 2011-02-09, 12:13   Link #80
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I've said it before, and I'll say it again, especially when I'm saying it coming from the position of someone who has used it.

"Killing" one person early is a great way to raise the Anyone Can Die specter. Regardless if you don't plan to kill anyone else, you've made your audience think that you can, so that raises he dramatic tension. The fact that quite a few people here are thinking that she will, is proof of that. When I wrote Future Tense, I always got a chuckle out of people who expected someone to die, and I even mocked fun of it by making it look like Sein had died, but she actually survived.

Killing Sayaka now would be overdoing it, and not needed. We already fear for life, so the main goal has been accomplished. Given the type of series this is, I'm gonna go with the "he plans to subvert tropes and conventions" line of thought. "Flags" are merely our own preconceived biases based on experience, which would be foolhardy to rely upon in this case.
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