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Old 2011-02-09, 18:46   Link #281
00-Raiser
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin_Brett View Post
That's one thing that bugs me, Raiser - this isn't some gladitorial arena. It's a children's tournament with rules.
So? In every type of tournament/contest there are two kinds of people: Those who play to have fun, and those who play to win. Vivio is clearly the former type. Martial arts are just a fun hobby for her. For some, martial arts are their way of life and they take it extremely seriously. Against people who have strong convictions like that, Vivio's attitude won't stand up.

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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I agree with Justin. As Deed said, Vivio's surrounded by people who love her and know how to fight. They wouldn't set her up for a fall.
They might not be intending to, but it could still happen. If they coddle her too much, she'll only end up weaker and unpreprared when facing others who'll not be so gentle with her.

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Originally Posted by Justin_Brett View Post
And that's part of what bugs me, actually. She could just tell Vivio all this stuff directly if she's so positive of it, instead of just assuming she'll interpret it that way instead of 'my friend is a little crazy'. But she doesn't, and still goes on about how 'nice' she is. It's not like adopting the same role as Corona or Lutecia would protect her from getting hurt, either - the former got a Starlight Breaker, the latter got Rocket Punched.
It's one thing to just tell her that, but it's another to demonstrate it first hand and have her actually experience it.
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Old 2011-02-09, 18:53   Link #282
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If you're in a tournament, play to win.

Otherwise you waste your time.

...

At least, that's the attitude amongst people who take this stuff seriously.
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Old 2011-02-09, 19:13   Link #283
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Well, its not like its a waste of money. Take the MtG personalities for example.

tl;dr
Timmy - power gamer, big and flashy
Spike - I will crush you
Johnny - i will bedazzle, annoy and bewilder you (combos)
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Old 2011-02-09, 19:18   Link #284
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There's a difference between taking things seriously and trying to seriously harm someone in front of a crowd. It would make more sense if Vivio was in the military, but she's not. Or is this going to turn out like the Karate Kid, with every trainer other than Nove encouraging their pupils toward murder? If anything it's not a case of Vivio not taking it seriously enough, but Shante taking it far too seriously.

And I should remind you that her trainer is Nove, who specifically did not coddle a little kid early on in the story.
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Old 2011-02-09, 19:41   Link #285
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Finally readed Ch. 19, i don't find anything wrong with Shante's intentions, she was trying to giving advice to Vivio about her natural weaknesses, after all, Shante did recognize Vivio's strenght but find her magic type and personality unsuited for close combat, her execution and attitude towards the issue is what bothers me and the twins xDU. She's a little bit pretentious about "teaching" Vivio an important lesson. As Deed let her know, Vivio is a smart girl perfectly aware of said weaknesses(after all she was beaten by Einhart ...twice) and despite said weaknesses she wants to achieve prowess with the Strike Arts because she like it(important lesson here: you don't need to necessary follow a path just because you're better suited for it).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanya01 View Post
If you're in a tournament, play to win.

Otherwise you waste your time.

...

At least, that's the attitude amongst people who take this stuff seriously.
Honestly i find said attitude quite annoying, one thing is take your way on the tornament seriously, you have worked hard on your skills and expect to achieve the best result, understandable and cool to a degree. But another entirely different thing is try to discourage someone not as serious as you, probably they have their own goals to achieve, probably they're not so interested on the trophy but more on the experience or probably they just have a cheerfull attitude towards things. The infamous "stop having fun guys" who chastises people for, you know, enjoying an activity, are annoying as hell.

I'm pretty sure that Vivion won't end being champ this time but at least i hope she manage to beat a tough opponent and surprises everyone(as things are going on Miura seems to fit the criteria, all this time people was lampshading how good she is and is about to face Vivio, so yeah).

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Originally Posted by Justin_Brett View Post
Or is this going to turn out like the Karate Kid, with every trainer other than Nove encouraging their pupils toward murder?
...it would be really cool to see Nove scarring the hell out of an evil sensei in a cool "Mr. Miyagi" fashion xD.
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Old 2011-02-09, 19:56   Link #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin_Brett View Post
There's a difference between taking things seriously and trying to seriously harm someone in front of a crowd. It would make more sense if Vivio was in the military, but she's not. Or is this going to turn out like the Karate Kid, with every trainer other than Nove encouraging their pupils toward murder? If anything it's not a case of Vivio not taking it seriously enough, but Shante taking it far too seriously.

And I should remind you that her trainer is Nove, who specifically did not coddle a little kid early on in the story.
Well, we don't know what the exact rules for the tournament is in regards to causing injury. Obviously they'll prevent fatalities, which is why a sufficiently advanced device is required. But injuries come with the territory.

That image spot was likely exaggerated, but the point was that Vivio recognised that "It'll be really bad if I get hit by that attack!" Shante stopped because Vivio backed off, but what if such a situation occurs in an actual match? What if her opponent doesn't hold back?

There's still that discrepency, though. Teana's skills lies in her ranged abilities, but when she attempted a melee attack, Nanoha shot her out of the sky. Vivio is more suited for scollarly work, but focuses on combat instead, and everyone is cool with it.

Though in Teana's case it was more she tried to jump ahead when she wasn't ready. Vivio's been an official librarian for a few years so you could argue she's already mastered her intellectual skills.
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Old 2011-02-09, 20:05   Link #287
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Originally Posted by 00-Raiser View Post
Though in Teana's case it was more she tried to jump ahead when she wasn't ready. Vivio's been an official librarian for a few years so you could argue she's already mastered her intellectual skills.
Yup, also i believed that Nanoha's head cooling over Teana was because she try to push things up and ended trying to do a recklessly attempt to attack Nanoha during a training session risking her life in the process and we know how dissaproving Nanoha is in regards of carelesness during training.

That's not the case with Vivio, she's just training as a sport having a very good coach on Nove who regulates not only her execises but also other things like alimentation, rest and quality tim for other activities, with that Nanoha dosen't have much to worry because Vivio is a smart and cheerfull kid who is still developing her skill and strenght while undergoing integral formation. Like it was mentioned, Vivio is traning for a sports martial arts tournament, not to risk her life on the battlefield.
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Old 2011-02-09, 20:11   Link #288
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You also keep forgetting that Teana was endangering her own life and the lives of others. So not, like, a hobby. And I dunno how much help teaching her that is supposed to be, anyway - Vivio's not really a tanker, so it's not like she's just gonna stand there and get hit.
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Old 2011-02-09, 20:12   Link #289
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Even then, though, don't underestimate the competative spirit. How many times have 'friendly' tournaments in DBZ turned out to be anything but?

Besides, even if what Shante wanted to show her doesn't apply to the tournament itself, it's still a valuable life lesson.
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Old 2011-02-09, 20:37   Link #290
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I think she already found that out when she was forced to be the power battery of a deadly artifact at the tender age of six, and then brainwashed into fighting her adopted mother.

Just sayin'.
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Old 2011-02-09, 20:38   Link #291
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Originally Posted by 00-Raiser View Post
Even then, though, don't underestimate the competative spirit. How many times have 'friendly' tournaments in DBZ turned out to be anything but?
I doubt this will reach DBZ-levels of hot bloodness but it will be interesting if that's the case xD.
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Old 2011-02-09, 22:03   Link #292
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One particular DBZ incident comes to mind: When Videl fought that majin guy and she totally got her shit wrecked despite all her special training with Gohan. Imagine if that happened to Vivio. I bet it'd cause Einhart to get royally pissed off

Probably won't happen, but I'm just....... saiyan

*shot*
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Old 2011-02-09, 22:04   Link #293
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Well, slice of life needs conflict otherwise its just Aria (which was still done very well, just not looking for it here)
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Old 2011-02-09, 22:07   Link #294
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That guy was also possessed and undefeatable by any normal human, if I recall. Since most of the competition is out of the kids' league anyway, I doubt that'll exactly happen here.
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Old 2011-02-09, 22:11   Link #295
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Originally Posted by 00-Raiser View Post
One particular DBZ incident comes to mind: When Videl fought that majin guy and she totally got her shit wrecked despite all her special training with Gohan. Imagine if that happened to Vivio. I bet it'd cause Einhart to get royally pissed off

Probably won't happen, but I'm just....... saiyan

*shot*
If that triggers a hidden evil group trying to achieve a goal through the tournament then i totally supports the idea.

But i really doubt Vivio will be pitted on that kind of situation having more expendable strong alies like Rio and Corona, Videl was a support character after all xDU. By the way, apparently FORCE is the blood source and thats makes this even more unlikely.

Besides, if you're curious the big guy who delivers the beating is named Spopovich.
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Old 2011-02-09, 22:24   Link #296
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Right, that was his name. DBZ was aaaaaaaaages ago.

Anyways, the point is going into a tournament thinking it'll be a friendly thing only to be taken off guard by an opponent who doesn't share the sentiment.

Like... say Vivio offers her hand to her opponent before the match, but the opponent uses the opportunity to boot her in the head.
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Old 2011-02-09, 22:29   Link #297
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Anyways, the point is going into a tournament thinking it'll be a friendly thing only to be taken off guard by an opponent who doesn't share the sentiment.
Just to make a point, enjoy martial arts doesen't mean you're going to get easy on your opponent's or let them intimidate/surprise you. This reminds me of "Captain Tsubasa" where Tsubasa(Oliver) who happily enjoys soccer confronts Kojiro(Steve) who thinks soccer is a battle and those who play it as a game are weak, Tsubasa quickly proves him wrong.
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Old 2011-02-09, 22:41   Link #298
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I remember in Punch-Out Wii, that one japanese boxer will bow to you when the match begins, and you can punch him then. Then if you try it again when you do the rematches, he dodges and uppercuts you. Given that the Nanoha series prescribes to Good Is Not Dumb most of the time, it wouldn't surprise me to see Vivio do something like that.
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Old 2011-02-09, 22:42   Link #299
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Originally Posted by 00-Raiser View Post
Like... say Vivio offers her hand to her opponent before the match, but the opponent uses the opportunity to boot her in the head.
And she is disqualified (or whatever) because tournaments have rules to avoid things like that.

Not to say there won´t be "I must win by any means necesary" kind of opponents, just making that above point clear.
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Old 2011-02-09, 22:47   Link #300
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Spoiler for you mean like this?:
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For those that belittle their favorite characters, complain about pairings, complain about oversexed images. Stop, thank you.

Fear Anxiety Doubt is but a fad. The life of a fad depends entirely on the willingness to support it. Difficulty is a choice. Determination is a path. Your next great idea after your destination is the true goal.
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