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Old 2011-02-05, 02:14   Link #41
TJR
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
No it wasn't. The art and animation was poor for a film, and very uninspired IMO. It's especially displeasing when they also change how the fights were supposed to be animated to flashy lights pew pew.

The film wasn't for the fans, newbies, or fate night anime fans. All around failure on every front.
I'm referring to Geneon's aims for the project and not so much the quality of the final product. Excising any coherent narrative to focus primarily on eye candy may well have been their plan from the start. Now whether they succeeded at that is debatable.

FWIW, Geneon has spoken of the movie quite proudly (even hinting at a potential Heaven's Feel adaptation from the same crew), so I doubt the form it took is far from what they asked for.
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Old 2011-02-05, 02:16   Link #42
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Originally Posted by HurricaneHige View Post
That was DEEN's best work in terms of animation, I would say.

Might not be the best animation for movies per se.
i bit disagree with that. even on movie category. i consider it as most awesome movie i even watch.

how The art and animation was poor? it standard anime movie art.

it seem you dont watch all of the movie. if you do, most of them are close combat. only few of them are pew pew. if /a/ surprised how the animation of the movie turn out.
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Old 2011-02-05, 02:25   Link #43
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i bit disagree with that. even on movie category. i consider it as most awesome movie i even watch.

how The art and animation was poor? it standard anime movie art.

it seem you dont watch all of the movie. if you do, most of them are close combat. only few of them are pew pew. if /a/ surprised how the animation of the movie turn out.
For a movie, the fluidity could be better. The first battle against Berserker has some very smooth animation but later scenes are noticeably choppy. Drawing quality is also a bit rough in places (although still much better than the TV series), and the cinematography is what you'd expect from the Fate/Stay Night anime team.

I still think the technical aspects are pretty decent overall, but there are definite signs of cost-cutting, and the direction lacks imagination.
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Old 2011-02-05, 02:58   Link #44
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For a movie, the fluidity could be better. The first battle against Berserker has some very smooth animation but later scenes are noticeably choppy. Drawing quality is also a bit rough in places (although still much better than the TV series), and the cinematography is what you'd expect from the Fate/Stay Night anime team.

I still think the technical aspects are pretty decent overall, but there are definite signs of cost-cutting, and the direction lacks imagination.
i did notice it. same complain can be done on other movie. cannot blame them consider the movie itself is action packed and it is awesome
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Old 2011-02-05, 05:54   Link #45
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If it wasn't only for the animation drop whatsoever, people wouldn't be so critical about that movie.
I really don't want to drag it on, but I guess my initial post regarding UBW should be enough.

Tl;dr: UBW suffers a lot of ridiculous execution and transitions, even within the actions. The most deplorable scene is paradoxaly EMIYA scene, because the camera just couldn't give a break, we got silly moves (I must reminds you that Shirou is a frigging kendoka, and yet moves are just plain), and unexplained choices (like archer wielding... 2 pink glass swords (?!)?
Don't get me started with Gilgamesh scenes, and his gates of babylon, it would be of the same category of rant.
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Old 2011-02-11, 02:41   Link #46
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watching UBW again.

this time be pessimistic

notice many flaw

but still awesome overall

probably because i am never playing the LN before.

probably that one that make deen overhated. because they anime is not what people who play/read original expected.

but if you a people that never play/read original source. the pretty much good studio. not awesome or best. but good or average at best
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Old 2011-02-11, 03:33   Link #47
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(even hinting at a potential Heaven's Feel adaptation from the same crew).
There is no God.
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Old 2011-02-11, 03:50   Link #48
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There is no God.
Hah, I totally would agree.

I mean if that happened.
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Old 2011-02-15, 06:26   Link #49
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Another thing I've noted is that they handle the BGMs somewhat poorly. I mean sure the OPs/EDs were very good (Fate/Stay Night, Higurashi, Umineko all had amazing ones), but the music in the episodes left much to be desired. Higurashi's anime soundtrack was largely generic horror stuff, and frequently recycled from time to time. It wasn't until Rei where they actually had usable BGM that suits the mood.

F/SN had the same issue as well, except maybe that one battle theme. According to many people, they really could have used more of the VN's good music. From the little I've played of the VN, I'd agree.

Umineko actually bothered to use the game sound track, but used it in a largely meh fashion. VN users complained about overuse of this song, and after being informed I had to agree! Why?

It was only used effectively about once or twice, and those two were the best episodes of the series. Music can help invoke emotion, and a lot of the moments near the end SHOULD have been tense but didn't because the BGMs used were too nondescript.
They also remixed one of the most awesome BGMs and... didn't use it. What?

And of course, the Fate/stay night movie compilation of random scenes pretending to be a movie also had a poor use of music. Yes, the individual tracks are great, but there's too much periods of dead silence which made it strangely boring. Yes, you can have a great soundtrack but it just doesn't work when you don't time it right.
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Old 2011-02-15, 07:09   Link #50
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Another thing I've noted is that they handle the BGMs somewhat poorly. I mean sure the OPs/EDs were very good (Fate/Stay Night, Higurashi, Umineko all had amazing ones), but the music in the episodes left much to be desired. Higurashi's anime soundtrack was largely generic horror stuff, and frequently recycled from time to time. It wasn't until Rei where they actually had usable BGM that suits the mood.

F/SN had the same issue as well, except maybe that one battle theme. According to many people, they really could have used more of the VN's good music. From the little I've played of the VN, I'd agree.

Umineko actually bothered to use the game sound track, but used it in a largely meh fashion. VN users complained about overuse of this song, and after being informed I had to agree! Why?

It was only used effectively about once or twice, and those two were the best episodes of the series. Music can help invoke emotion, and a lot of the moments near the end SHOULD have been tense but didn't because the BGMs used were too nondescript.
They also remixed one of the most awesome BGMs and... didn't use it. What?

And of course, the Fate/stay night movie compilation of random scenes pretending to be a movie also had a poor use of music. Yes, the individual tracks are great, but there's too much periods of dead silence which made it strangely boring. Yes, you can have a great soundtrack but it just doesn't work when you don't time it right.
agree with that. they have problem with pacing and BGM issue. despite they having quite talented composer. they overall stand alone soundtrack is good however.
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Old 2011-02-15, 17:34   Link #51
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Yep, it's a case where great music can be ruined with poor use. They seemed to have used Kenji Kawai a bit and he usually does great stuff. Which makes it more disappointing in many cases.
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Old 2011-02-15, 20:45   Link #52
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BGM isn't really a Deen issue but is actually the domain of the composer (creates the music), music director (ensures that the composed music fits the director's specifications), and director (plans the music and its use).

IMO, Chiaki Kon has never used music well (i.e. Otome Youkai Zakuro was probably her best series, but implementation of BGM was a weak point), so Higurashi and Umineko may suffer from that as a result.
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Old 2011-02-17, 07:35   Link #53
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I think Seitokai no ichizon is my favourite Studio DEEN anime.

With all this Higurashi and BGM talk, you guys seem to forget an anime which Studio DEEN has lots of fun working with.

Do you know those animes which are fun to make? Animes that most studios enjoy making, basically. Gainax has FLCL, JC Staff has Azumanga Daioh, Ookami-san and various others, KyoAni has Lucky Star and Studio DEEN has Seitokai no Ichizon.

To me, Seitokai no Ichizon feels like an anime where Studio DEEN does it with pure love. The animation is so natural and well done with low budget that only a studio that loves its anime can do that. It's not as detailed as KyoAni's works, but it's still smooth and it fits well with the story.

And never have i seen a male harem character that i liked for the first time. Ken Sugisaki might be a horny otaku, but he's actually a horny otaku with a heart who in the end of day only wants the girls to be happy and proud of who they are. I like that type character, a guy who might be weird, but is actually good at heart and wants the people close to him to be happy.

And the pop culture references work! They just work. Unlike some animes that references and parodies stuff for no reason, the pop culture references work naturally and flows well with the characters. it reminds me of Spaced where the pop culture references corresponds well with the situation, and in this case it does well too.

I'm pretty sure i might get criticised by higurashi or Fate/Stay Night fans because i prefer Seitokai no Ichizon as my favourite DEEN anime, but hey it's my opinion and if i like a slice of life anime over a horror anime featuring yanderes, then it's my right to do so!
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Old 2011-02-17, 08:11   Link #54
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I think Seitokai no ichizon is my favourite Studio DEEN anime.

With all this Higurashi and BGM talk, you guys seem to forget an anime which Studio DEEN has lots of fun working with.

Do you know those animes which are fun to make? Animes that most studios enjoy making, basically. Gainax has FLCL, JC Staff has Azumanga Daioh, Ookami-san and various others, KyoAni has Lucky Star and Studio DEEN has Seitokai no Ichizon.

To me, Seitokai no Ichizon feels like an anime where Studio DEEN does it with pure love. The animation is so natural and well done with low budget that only a studio that loves its anime can do that. It's not as detailed as KyoAni's works, but it's still smooth and it fits well with the story.

And never have i seen a male harem character that i liked for the first time. Ken Sugisaki might be a horny otaku, but he's actually a horny otaku with a heart who in the end of day only wants the girls to be happy and proud of who they are. I like that type character, a guy who might be weird, but is actually good at heart and wants the people close to him to be happy.

And the pop culture references work! They just work. Unlike some animes that references and parodies stuff for no reason, the pop culture references work naturally and flows well with the characters. it reminds me of Spaced where the pop culture references corresponds well with the situation, and in this case it does well too.

I'm pretty sure i might get criticised by higurashi or Fate/Stay Night fans because i prefer Seitokai no Ichizon as my favourite DEEN anime, but hey it's my opinion and if i like a slice of life anime over a horror anime featuring yanderes, then it's my right to do so!
well i agree with that, seizon is also one of my favorite anime (hoping second season after the LN finish)

but really people must also look at deen other work. korezom, giant killing, law of ueki to name few.

F/SN, higurashi and umineko is not only anime that deen make
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Old 2011-02-17, 08:37   Link #55
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I tend to be a bit partial in regards to DEEN because my mind straight away pops to Samurai X: Trust and Betrayal (imho single greatest anime of all time). Its probably why stuff like UBW movie stings because they are capable of so much more (VN just makes it a whole lot worse).
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Old 2011-02-17, 09:15   Link #56
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well i agree with that, seizon is also one of my favorite anime (hoping second season after the LN finish)

but really people must also look at deen other work. korezom, giant killing, law of ueki to name few.

F/SN, higurashi and umineko is not only anime that deen make
I would be actually more convinced if you named classics, like Rurouni Kenshin: Tsuiokuhen or Maison Ikkoku, which are unfortunately quite in their vintage and rare to be blunt.

The number of adaptations they have failed are much more numerous, just that F/SN and the when they cry franchise are the most noteworthy, considering their popularity, yet atrocious adaptation.
When you got adaptations like Getbackers (turning the whole deal into a fujoshi bait) and Yami to Boshi to Hon (complete opposite: yuri festival), I would rather ask what their scripters are thinking at times.

But the vast majority of their productions suffer from average/sub-par budget and poor transitions. Even now, they manage to be quite dubious with stuff like Dragon Crisis in that department (even Zombie has glaring issues shared with its predecessors).
As much as I loved Seitokai no Ichizon, it doesn't excuse how they arguably used almost every tricks to save budget, which would have attracted the wrath of a whole fandom if it was for a series of another genre.

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Old 2011-02-17, 10:04   Link #57
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I would be actually more convinced if you named classics, like Rurouni Kenshin: Tsuiokuhen or Maison Ikkoku, which are unfortunately quite in their vintage and rare to be blunt.

The number of adaptations they have failed are much more numerous, just that F/SN and the when they cry franchise are the most noteworthy, considering their popularity, yet atrocious adaptation.
When you got adaptations like Getbackers (turning the whole deal into a fujoshi bait) and Yami to Boshi to Hon (complete opposite: yuri festival), I would rather ask what their scripters are thinking at times.

But the vast majority of their productions suffer from average/sub-par budget and poor transitions. Even now, they manage to be quite dubious with stuff like Dragon Crisis in that department (even Zombie has glaring issues shared with its predecessors).
As much as I loved Seitokai no Ichizon, it doesn't excuse how they arguably used almost every tricks to save budget, which would have attracted the wrath of a whole fandom if it was for a series of another genre.
they did tend to have budget cutting but it's not reason that i stop watching it for fun.

bare i mind that i am "casual" anime fan. not like you "technical" anime fan. i am watching anime mainly for fun. i tend to chose 12 ep anime for new season while the longer one i kept it for later. usually i dont care however animating it. as long it interesting i pick it.

one of nice example of budget anime yet fun to watch is hetalia. pretty much only 5 minute and average animation. but that enough to keep me entertain (well for 5 minute anyway so it probably not big deal)
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Old 2011-02-17, 18:01   Link #58
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You seem to assume I do not watch for fun, which I actually do. If a series doesn't entertain me (or enthrall me with other emotions, like suspense and whatnot), I would hardly follow it.
Suffice to say, nothing stop you from being slightly critical and neutral: I have a lot of series I've liked, but that doesn't mean I overlook their flaws, and inversely, there are shows I disliked to no end but can't deny their good points.

That said, there are flaws that just impair such entertainment. You might overlook them, but I doubt people all do the same, and they don't need to be "technical". If I was so technical, you would hardly see me watching Madoka for instance (hell, I would have stopped at the first episode of Higurashi... the first season is probably one of their cheapest stuff ever).
There is no "perfect" anime series of course, but that doesn't mean you can't critique the series accordingly.

Defining a good series is always difficult, but I see no reason not to give credits and rotten tomatoes to the studio, regardless if you liked/disliked the show.
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Old 2011-02-18, 00:34   Link #59
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You seem to assume I do not watch for fun, which I actually do. If a series doesn't entertain me (or enthrall me with other emotions, like suspense and whatnot), I would hardly follow it.
Suffice to say, nothing stop you from being slightly critical and neutral: I have a lot of series I've liked, but that doesn't mean I overlook their flaws, and inversely, there are shows I disliked to no end but can't deny their good points.

That said, there are flaws that just impair such entertainment. You might overlook them, but I doubt people all do the same, and they don't need to be "technical". If I was so technical, you would hardly see me watching Madoka for instance (hell, I would have stopped at the first episode of Higurashi... the first season is probably one of their cheapest stuff ever).
There is no "perfect" anime series of course, but that doesn't mean you can't critique the series accordingly.

Defining a good series is always difficult, but I see no reason not to give credits and rotten tomatoes to the studio, regardless if you liked/disliked the show.
the way you review anime, in fact most of you post. show the you seem a technical stoic person. i mean there is barely feeling of "emotion" in there. obviously i understand that you sometimes criticize the technical aspect of an anime. but it seem you take that bit serious. i can be wrong obviously. since we are on internet. you can simply hide your personality.
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Old 2011-02-18, 00:38   Link #60
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the way you review anime seem that you technical stoic person. i mean there is seem no feeling of "fun" or "enjoy" in there. obviously i understand that you sometimes criticize the technical aspect of an anime. but it seem you take that bit serious. i can be wrong obviously.
You shouldn't confuse higher standards of entertainment with not being able to enjoy things.
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