AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Madoka Magica

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2011-02-11, 15:31   Link #81
night_sentinel
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Earth
@ Triple R

I don't know which I don't like more plot induced stupidity which meant that `the storytelling has gaping holes or character induced stupidity which meant that character are just naturally stupid... or blind to other things

Can I just take a third option? Her mindset or personality of a minimalist meant that she just tells enough for Madoka to dissuade her or she doesn't want pity or something...

Though, after episode 6 I'm really beginning to think that Homura has a hidden agenda....

@ Kaijo and Vanish

I think that Homura has a hidden motive attached to whatever she is doing but, I find it unlikely that it is to make Madoka an MG. If its just to make Madoka MG, Homura could have easily accomplished everything by not doing anything after episode 1. But, it is very possible that Homura is playing a psychological game with Madoka or at least in theory.

Regarding the recent revelation and why Homura did not say it... I think there is many possible reason ... Vanish just gave one about Homura's not very communicative and minimalist personality might be against it.

Personally, I find the reason for not telling about it is Homura might hold the same view as Kyuubey about the soul gems. Really, if the drama of the episode did not happen like Sayaka dying and they were told the same piece of information I suspect that their reaction might vary...

Perhaps, I watched too many animes but is it really a bad thing for the person's soul to change places or something? Does the location of the soul matters? If Homura told this piece of information before this episode the only thing that she'll be able to do is sow some distrust for Kyubey for not mentioning it...

Given Sayaka's animosity toward her, would telling this actually dissuade Sayaka? As for Madoka, without the trauma that the soul being put outside the body nearly killed her best friend, I suspect that she might take this in a stride... and just worry about the fragile soul jar.

The only implication of the soul gem is that the MG cannot renegade on their contract. No matter what hunting witches has become a lifetime commitment. And what is Homura saying for the past couple of episodes? That once you become a Puella Magi you can't turn back... it is better to give up on them and the price of the wish is too high, etc.

Last edited by night_sentinel; 2011-02-11 at 15:47.
night_sentinel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-02-11, 15:54   Link #82
Sekirei07
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Houston
Age: 26
Is Homura's special ability speed? She sure as hell seems to be faster than any of the other MG.
__________________
Pedo-Kuch approves
Sekirei07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-02-11, 16:01   Link #83
night_sentinel
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Earth
@ Sekirei07

It is possible that Homura has a very fast speed... but the current theory is she has teleportation or time manipulation or displacement....
night_sentinel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-02-11, 16:03   Link #84
Vanish
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Speed doesn't explain why she vanishes every few seconds while chasing a vehicle. And look at her hair when she confronts Kyouko. It doesn't move. If she was ultra fast her hair would flutter as she reappears. Basically... Marylin from The Law of Ueki.

Ueki: Your power isn't high-speed. You can stop the time because when you dodged my attacks your hair didn't move.
Vanish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-02-11, 16:17   Link #85
Kazu-kun
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanish View Post
Ueki: Your power isn't high-speed. You can stop the time because when you dodged my attacks your hair didn't move.
Just reminding you that teleport is still a possibility.
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic39230_3.gif
Kazu-kun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-02-11, 18:17   Link #86
Sekirei07
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Houston
Age: 26
It seems to be speed because she was out of breath when she got back after chasing the truck. That is a sign of physical activity and Homura doesn't seem to be the type to waste her magic to help someone being the loner she is.

She wouldn't need to run if she can simply teleport. Just because hair doesn't flutter does not rule out speed. All the laws of physics can't fully be explained.

It seems more like a quick step movement, like being able to quickly move for a short distance but not for an extended period of time.
__________________
Pedo-Kuch approves
Sekirei07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-02-11, 18:30   Link #87
Vanish
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Just reminding you that teleport is still a possibility.
Don't worry, I have my own beliefs but I keep myself open to all the other possibilities as long as they are not straight down ridiculous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekirei07 View Post
It seems to be speed because she was out of breath when she got back after chasing the truck. That is a sign of physical activity and Homura doesn't seem to be the type to waste her magic to help someone being the loner she is.

She wouldn't need to run if she can simply teleport. Just because hair doesn't flutter does not rule out speed. All the laws of physics can't fully be explained.

It seems more like a quick step movement, like being able to quickly move for a short distance but not for an extended period of time.
How do you explain the fact that you see her vanish and reappear after each few seconds? Actually you just added more fuel to my opinion that Homura manipulates time. Homura was exhausted, yes. Because she ran after the vehicle while stopping time periodically. Time manipulation on, off, on, off, on, off. She can't keep it constant or that would be overpowered, that would explain the fact that we only see her in one place, and then another.


My personal breakdown:

Homura's abilities (exclude her shield and the bow we haven't yet seen)

Speed: 2/8
- explains why she couldn't get out of Mami's bind (episode 1)
- explains that she moved while water drops fell, like Sayaka did (episode 5)
- doesn't explain why she vanishes and reappears from places (episode 3, 5, 6)
- doesn't explain the way she evaded Charlotte's munch attacks (episode 3)
- doesn't explain the time bombs (episode 3)
- doesn't explain why her hair doesn't move upon reappearing (episode 3, 6)
- doesn't explain the way Sayaka was saved (episode 5, 6)
- has weak connection to a hinted time-related wish (Sayaka wish = heal bonus power | Homura predetermined knowledge => Homura wish = time bonus power)

Teleportation: 4/8
- doesn't explain why she couldn't get out of Mami's bind
- doesn't explain that she moved while water drops fell
- explains why she vanishes and reappears from places (Kiddy Girl-and's Ascour)
- explains the way she evaded Charlotte's munch attacks
- doesn't explain the time bombs
- explains why her hair doesn't move upon reappearing
- explains the way Sayaka was saved
- has a considerable connection to a hinted time-related wish

Time manipulation: 8/8
- explains why she couldn't get out of Mami's bind
- explains that she moved while water drops fell
- explains why she vanishes and reappears from places
- explains the way she evaded Charlotte's munch attacks
- explains the time bombs
- explains why her hair doesn't move upon reappearing (Law of Ueki's Marylin)
- explains the way Sayaka was saved
- has a connection to a hinted time-related wish


Notes:
The way she evaded Charlotte's attacks: She jumped or teleported to the different platforms. If we assume her ability is speed, then she wouldn't have been able to switch platforms this fast because she did not use magic to fly (which seems like she did in episode 1 but let's put that aside), thus her mobility and vanish+reappear in mid-air is not explained at all.
The way Sayaka was saved: Speed doesn't work here because Sayaka would have actively noticed she was being moved to a safe spot. Maybe we would have even seen Sayaka being transported vaguely, but we didn't. The scene totally skipped to another view which didn't make sense if it was just speed.

Last edited by Vanish; 2011-02-11 at 19:17.
Vanish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-02-11, 21:32   Link #88
Sekirei07
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Houston
Age: 26
There is one fatal flaw with the whole time manipulation thing if you want to get in super detail like that.

Friction

If one object moves against other objects that are not able to move, you generate friction.

If Homura can stop time, she is effectively making every single molecule around her stop. Simply moving is impossible without instant death because the seer friction it would cause would kill her.

In comparison, The Flash, has a special aura around him that protects him from this effect. Because he moves so fast against everything else that if he didn't have that aura he would die from friction it causes.

In the case of speed, the best reason for not constant use or long period use is due to Kinetic Vision. Homura's reaction speed are that of a normal person, so trying to move that fast that quickly is going beyond her own reaction speed and can lead to running into a wall. So taking small steps would be best.

Time Manipulation can only really be considered as such if you can move time back or forward, not just slow things down or stop them.

If your just making so you can move faster than everything around you, how is that not different then just being able to move faster than everything around you?

Time Manipulation does not explain at all how she avoided the munch attacks because she didn't simply appear at another location, but was falling down from up high onto another platform. How did she jump that high? Or why did she jump that high if she can simply manipulate time? It doesn't stack.

With speed you would have superior leg power and jump so fast that it looks like you vanish.

What time bombs? That was just Homura using her magic, her name is HOMURA which is related to fire, it has nothing to do with her ability.

Where did she even say her wish was time related? Plus QB has stated she is an irregular, we do not even know if she had made a wish for sure or the conditions she was in to be a MG
__________________
Pedo-Kuch approves
Sekirei07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-02-11, 21:45   Link #89
Kazu-kun
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekirei07 View Post
In the case of speed, the best reason for not constant use or long period use is due to Kinetic Vision. Homura's reaction speed are that of a normal person, so trying to move that fast that quickly is going beyond her own reaction speed and can lead to running into a wall. So taking small steps would be best.

What time bombs? That was just Homura using her magic, her name is HOMURA which is related to fire, it has nothing to do with her ability.
I disagree about speed because of the noticeable lack of inertia. If it was speed, when she stops, you'll see, for example, her hair and laces moving by force of inertia. But there's nothing of sorts. She just appears in another location.

So IMO what she's doing is either teleport or time manipulation.

About the bombs, in episode 3 there's a moment when you see one of the bombs in Charlotte's tongue. So Homura waits to the very last moment, drops the bombs in the platform and teleports to a different location. That's why some times she's coming from above. It really seems that she's just disappearing and appearing in the different location.
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic39230_3.gif
Kazu-kun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-02-11, 21:53   Link #90
Sekirei07
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Houston
Age: 26
Sigh... I guess until Homura herself explicitly states what her ability is it can only be speculated.
__________________
Pedo-Kuch approves
Sekirei07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-02-11, 22:01   Link #91
Tenjo_Utena
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
I wanted to comment on one reason I think Homura hadn't and hasn't been entirely forthcoming about the true nature of being a MG - She doesn't want Madoka to feel sorry for her. And I think she especially doesn't want Madoka to feel compelled to help her because she feels sorry for her.
Tenjo_Utena is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-02-11, 22:18   Link #92
Kaijo
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow, in a house dropped on an ugly, old woman.
Send a message via AIM to Kaijo Send a message via MSN to Kaijo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenjo_Utena View Post
I wanted to comment on one reason I think Homura hadn't and hasn't been entirely forthcoming about the true nature of being a MG - She doesn't want Madoka to feel sorry for her. And I think she especially doesn't want Madoka to feel compelled to help her because she feels sorry for her.
Now this is the best reason I've heard. I still don't entirely believe it, but it makes some sense. Homura doesn't care too much about herself, and I still think she could phrase it as: "I'm already dead. Killing yourself, too, wouldn't change anything." And the revelation could still shock her enough to have enough doubts.

My own personal theory is that she is only delaying Madoka becoming an MG for some reason, which is why she isn't doing everything she could to stop Madoka. Or that she has another plan for Madoka, to use Madoka's power for some reason and she can't have Madoka becoming an MG yet otherwise it won't work.
Kaijo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-02-12, 00:57   Link #93
venk
Agent of Chaos
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Hentai no Mori
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanish View Post
- doesn't explain why she couldn't get out of Mami's bind
She still on her human form
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanish View Post
- doesn't explain that she moved while water drops fell
Sayaka and kyoko fighting at very high speed, just like how homura moved while water drops fell, the water drops around them moved very slowly
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanish View Post
- doesn't explain the time bombs
Doesn't some IRL bomb can be setup like time bombs ?
__________________

venk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-02-12, 01:02   Link #94
Silverwyrm
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Folsom, CA, USA
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by venk View Post
Doesn't some IRL bomb can be setup like time bombs ?
Im assuming the fact the bombs simply appeared on his tongue or inside him without any visual notice of her putting them there, pulling them out, throwing them etc.
Silverwyrm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-02-12, 01:03   Link #95
creb
Hiding Under Your Bed
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
To be fair, concerning her creation of time bombs, we saw Kyoko make a telescope out of her ring/soul gem. We've seen Mami create ribbons out of hers. This seems to be a distinct sort of creation power different than when they "power up" so to speak and go into full magical girl mode with their own unique weapon/power of choice.

It would suggest they have some ability to create objects. Whether it is only one specific object (doubtful; at least I find it highly doubtful that Kyoko's "special" creation ability is to create just a telescope ), or it's just general creation magic, we don't know at this stage.
creb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-02-12, 01:06   Link #96
venk
Agent of Chaos
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Hentai no Mori
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverwyrm View Post
Im assuming the fact the bombs simply appeared on his tongue or inside him without any visual notice of her putting them there, pulling them out, throwing them etc.
i have the same explanation with this
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
About the bombs, in episode 3 there's a moment when you see one of the bombs in Charlotte's tongue. So Homura waits to the very last moment, drops the bombs in the platform and teleports to a different location. That's why some times she's coming from above. It really seems that she's just disappearing and appearing in the different location.
It's still mystery about her exact ability,

maybe it's a teleport, or time manipulation (at very short time), or even both
__________________

venk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-02-12, 01:33   Link #97
creb
Hiding Under Your Bed
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
How old do we think Homura actually is? I don't know Japanese culture all that well, but is it normal for children to drink coffee? I guess I keep wondering if some of these people are far older than their bodies would suggest, especially in light of the bodies simply being a vessel for the soul gem.
creb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-02-12, 08:49   Link #98
RedWing
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekirei07 View Post
There is one fatal flaw with the whole time manipulation thing if you want to get in super detail like that.

Friction.

Simply moving is impossible without instant death because the seer friction it would cause would kill her.
Nothing is impossible with Magic.
RedWing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-02-12, 09:29   Link #99
sbg711
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWing View Post
Nothing is impossible with Magic.
I second that. Never troubleshoot a magical girl anime mystery with physics.
__________________


sbg711 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-02-12, 09:32   Link #100
Vanish
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekirei07 View Post
There is one fatal flaw with the whole time manipulation thing if you want to get in super detail like that.

Friction

If one object moves against other objects that are not able to move, you generate friction.

If Homura can stop time, she is effectively making every single molecule around her stop. Simply moving is impossible without instant death because the seer friction it would cause would kill her.

In comparison, The Flash, has a special aura around him that protects him from this effect. Because he moves so fast against everything else that if he didn't have that aura he would die from friction it causes.

Time Manipulation can only really be considered as such if you can move time back or forward, not just slow things down or stop them.

If your just making so you can move faster than everything around you, how is that not different then just being able to move faster than everything around you?

Time Manipulation does not explain at all how she avoided the munch attacks because she didn't simply appear at another location, but was falling down from up high onto another platform. How did she jump that high? Or why did she jump that high if she can simply manipulate time? It doesn't stack.

With speed you would have superior leg power and jump so fast that it looks like you vanish.

What time bombs? That was just Homura using her magic, her name is HOMURA which is related to fire, it has nothing to do with her ability.

Where did she even say her wish was time related? Plus QB has stated she is an irregular, we do not even know if she had made a wish for sure or the conditions she was in to be a MG
Nono, I'm not trying to get into "superdetail". The things I listed are the things we explicitly saw in the respective episodes (hence why I posted the episode counts). I'm not talking about the micro stuff such as friction and molecules, I suck at those subjects anyway. Adding to RedWing's above post, the law of physics don't need to apply down to molecular systems. See Madoka getting torn apart in episode 4, and in the same scenario the fact that Madoka falls down tens of meters without breaking a leg.

Sorry, I'm not too fond of The Flash or how the DC universe itself works for that matter.

If I went with your "time manipulation can only be considered as such", it can still be applied saying that things are so slow it seems like they don't move.

Certainly speed and time stop/slow-down share common utilizations but there >are< notable differences which I think you can take out of the things I listed.

It doesn't matter if she simply appeared on another platform or not. However, from the first time she evaded Charlotte, we can see that Homura did not stand straight. Why is that? Because the very moment she landed on the platform, time began to run again. Her body was folded up, that's a natural body reflex when you fall down a longer way. It's not an argument against speed, but against teleportation in this case as she would stand with the same position or at least stand straight if she simply teleported to another location.

As for why she could jump high. Well, MGs have superior general physical abilities. They just can. Besides, how high is "that high"? We didn't see the peak of Homura's jump so we don't even know she jumped "that high".

Alright, speed can explain that she jumps so fast (which also means she jumps rather high) you don't see her anymore. What about the downfall? Do you say that after she reached the peak and started to fall down, she used speed in mid-air to quickly land on the platform? I don't see how you can make it so you fall faster.

The time bombs >are< part of her magic, yes. I'm not a JP pro so I wouldn't know what Homura means but "nothing to do with her ability" sounds weird. You say it's part of her fire-related magic, then you say it's not part of her ability. But her ability is fueled with magic, too. So I'm not saying there >is< a direct connection between the time bombs and time manipulation, but there >can be<.

Homura never said her wish was time-related. But you're not gonna tell me she can fortune-tell the fact that: she knows the school before Madoka could even guide her. She knows Madoka, Sayaka, Kyouko and Kyubei but not vice versa. She knows about the Walpurgis Night which is to come in 2 weeks. Et cetera, I only said they could all be possible hints that her wish was to change time. Whether it be go back to a certain time, reverse the time for a certain amount or receive the power to manipulate time and so on.
Vanish is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
characters

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 22:59.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.