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Old 2011-02-12, 19:39   Link #261
itanshi1
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Sickness doesn't kill people, people whom are sick kill people... wut

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Old 2011-02-12, 19:57   Link #262
00-Raiser
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Keroko, you're really being too sticky about the semantics.

Let's say that your interpretation is true. It now opens the possibility that the Bureau is after the Huckebein so they can obtain this 'cure' and use the infection to their own benefit. Having highly durable soldiers that can regenerate and cancel out magic without the urge to indescriminately kill and potentially to turn into fleshy blobs? Score.
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Old 2011-02-12, 20:01   Link #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Fortis says the Hucks can move without the virus controlling their actions. I would say the entire 'kill to live' bit is a rather hefty control of ones actions.
That would be your opinion on the matter. Touma fought that "control" though, by going away so he wouldn't be forced to kill anyone, preferring to commit suicide instead. It's a choice, and every choice has consequences. Thus, every consequence compels you to some degree.

But I'm glad we finally settled on the fact that the Huck's still have to kill, or else they turn into lumps of flesh. =)

Quote:
And following that particular string of logic, the virus can't be blamed for the actions of the Hucks.
I never said anything about blame. My only point was that I could sympathize with the Huck's plight, since they are literally living a kill or be killed life. I wouldn't want them killing my friends and family, but I understand why they would feel forcedto.
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Old 2011-02-12, 20:10   Link #264
Keroko
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Originally Posted by 00-Raiser View Post
Keroko, you're really being too sticky about the semantics.
*raises eyebrow* You're accusing me of being to sticky about semantics? Even though the whole 'well, Fortis might have said it this, but that doesn't include-' semantics are what started this whole thing?

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Originally Posted by 00-Raiser View Post
Let's say that your interpretation is true. It now opens the possibility that the Bureau is after the Huckebein so they can obtain this 'cure' and use the infection to their own benefit. Having highly durable soldiers that can regenerate and cancel out magic without the urge to indescriminately kill and potentially to turn into fleshy blobs? Score.
Aaaaand you do exactly what you accuse me of doing. Except, you totally grabbed this from nowhere just to create some wacky strawman. But since there's zero canon evidence of this, let's just ignore this, shall we?

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Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
That would be your opinion on the matter. Touma fought that "control" though, by going away so he wouldn't be forced to kill anyone, preferring to commit suicide instead. It's a choice, and every choice has consequences. Thus, every consequence compels you to some degree.

But I'm glad we finally settled on the fact that the Huck's still have to kill, or else they turn into lumps of flesh. =)
Oh, on the contrary, we did not agree on that at all.

The word 'control' means doing what they want. Not when, what. If they 'had' to kill to live, they would not be in control.
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Old 2011-02-12, 20:16   Link #265
itanshi1
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can we use alcohol as a metaphor or something better? i dunno smoking?
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Old 2011-02-12, 20:21   Link #266
Justin_Brett
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It's not reckless anymore, it's hubris.
Under ordinary circumstances, yeah, sure. But if you expect them to just pack up and leave after what's basically a WMD has awakened in the hands of a traumatized young lad it's using as an effective puppet appears, well, I'm gonna cry foul.
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Old 2011-02-12, 20:37   Link #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Oh, on the contrary, we did not agree on that at all.

The word 'control' means doing what they want. Not when, what. If they 'had' to kill to live, they would not be in control.
And we are forced to eat to live. We don't have control. Okay.

Or, because it's what Itanshi wants... alcohol! An addict isn't forced to drink, either, eh? They obviously have control because they can choose when to drink. Same with a smoker. They can choose when to have a cigarette! And they can stop anytime, so quit giving them a hard time!

Oh, oh, and someone with bad kidneys can choose when to have dialysis. Or if they want to. They obviously aren't forced to!
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Old 2011-02-12, 20:49   Link #268
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Originally Posted by Justin_Brett View Post
Under ordinary circumstances, yeah, sure. But if you expect them to just pack up and leave after what's basically a WMD has awakened in the hands of a traumatized young lad it's using as an effective puppet appears, well, I'm gonna cry foul.
Let's consider the situation:
- Both ships suffered damage from Zero Eclipse.
- Touma's response with the whole being a WMD thing is to fly into unpopulated area.
- Fate was the fastest of all, and her AEC was also custom-made.

Why not have Fate shadow Touma's movement from distance, while Nanoha deal with DeVille? They shouldn't ignore him, yes, but that doesn't mean they must immediately engage him. Why not try to draw his fire? The Book of Darkness didn't have unlimited power supply, so it's worth the try. Why not have the Wolfram disengage from the ship battles and prepare to defend Hayate, instead of having Vita and Erio to continue firing at the airship?

And where's Teana and Caro, anyway? Can't Caro teleported Fate and Nanoha to intercept Touma? Can't the ship teleported them?

...they better convince Lutecia to join the subsequent operation. Teleport is a very underappreciated skill here...
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Old 2011-02-12, 21:13   Link #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiresias View Post
- Touma's response with the whole being a WMD thing is to fly into unpopulated area.
Is he flying into an unpopulated area? Honest question, because I'm not sure it's stated. He might intend to, but he's not in full control.

Also a given that the TSAB don't necessarily know if he will or not, and the danger of him doing that WMD attack when there are people in range would be too great. Even if he's not flying towards a town, travelers could always get caught up in it. So stopping him would be a priority.

But yeah, where are Teana and Caro? Why not have Voltaire pop up and slam his fists down on the ship, or tear it apart?
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Old 2011-02-12, 21:24   Link #270
Justin_Brett
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Couldn't they just delink the magic keeping Voltaire present?

And then the Hucks might not be able to just walk all over them as easily, Tiresias. Apparently that's not allowed.
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Old 2011-02-12, 21:32   Link #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin_Brett View Post
Couldn't they just delink the magic keeping Voltaire present?
All summoning does is teleport a living creature in. Voltaire himself lives in the mountains of Alzas. They couldn't delink him anymore than they could delink a goat. Of course, they could stab him over and over (depending on how hard his skin is), so if I were Caro, I'd summon him and have him quickly wreck the ship or knock it out of the air, then put him back.
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Old 2011-02-12, 21:54   Link #272
Justin_Brett
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Hm, guess I got them confused with familiars.

Then I dunno. A reason that's better than 'so one of the Hucks isn't beaten in the first battle', hopefully.

Also, the whole raw of the chapter is out, and is it just me, or does Deville look way stupider post-reacted in the actual manga?

Last edited by Justin_Brett; 2011-02-12 at 22:34.
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Old 2011-02-12, 22:51   Link #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin_Brett View Post
Under ordinary circumstances, yeah, sure. But if you expect them to just pack up and leave after what's basically a WMD has awakened in the hands of a traumatized young lad it's using as an effective puppet appears, well, I'm gonna cry foul.
I kinda agree. Touma going EMP and heart-attack-happy was more than likely not in the projected scenarios for Hayate's crew. With a new threat comes new priorities. It's Signum vs. Cypha all over again: There is a dangerous enemy that is in front of you, but you don't know how dangerous. Do you leave him alone, not knowing what type of havoc he might wreak if left up to his own devices? Or do you charge in blind, knowing that you're at a disadvantage? Signum chose to, and it turned out very badly for her. The rest of our heroes chose the same option and are getting their butts handed to them. Is it repeating the same mistake? I'd hesitate to call it that, as the perceived need to neutralize Touma may just be that great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiresias
Why not have Fate shadow Touma's movement from distance, while Nanoha deal with DeVille? They shouldn't ignore him, yes, but that doesn't mean they must immediately engage him. Why not try to draw his fire? The Book of Darkness didn't have unlimited power supply, so it's worth the try. Why not have the Wolfram disengage from the ship battles and prepare to defend Hayate, instead of having Vita and Erio to continue firing at the airship?
I thought it was because Fate was not ready to sortie at that time? At the same time Nanoha was limping back into the hangar, Fate was unconscious and in some sort of cardiac arrest that required an AED. Remember, Fate wasn't able to actively engage the enemy again until after Nanoha changed into Fortress mode, engaged Touma, and then engaged Deville. In that time, who knows where Touma could have gone? Really, Nanoha was the only one who was able to be sent out at the time. It'd be nice if battlefield conditions were ideal, but unfortunately, you simply have to muster the best you can with what you have.

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Originally Posted by Tiresias
And where's Teana and Caro, anyway?
I've been wondering that for forever. Your friends are getting owned very badly, guys. Go lend them a hand.
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Old 2011-02-12, 23:30   Link #274
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Sometimes you just don't have a choice. Everything is dangerous, especially in this line of work, but you are there doing it to protect people. You willingly step into that danger. Every confrontation has unknowns to it, so if you retreated just because it was dangerous and there was unknowns, then you'd never fight.

Signum had to go in. Just like Hayate and her crew had to go in.
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Old 2011-02-13, 00:16   Link #275
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I wouldn't be surprised if Teana used her optic camo to sneak onto the Huckebein's ship and is now hiding out there.
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Old 2011-02-13, 01:08   Link #276
Justin_Brett
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Hope she puts a knife to Stella's throat.
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Old 2011-02-13, 01:27   Link #277
itanshi1
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yeah not too likely we get to see one of the heroes go Gar
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Old 2011-02-13, 10:11   Link #278
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Firstly please note:nano of nano ace is not nano of Nanoha.Don't misunderstand it please.

http://www.kadokawa.co.jp/ace/4koma/
Kadokawa's new magazine 4 koma nano ace was announced.All of its contents are 4 koma manga and Force Dimension and new ViVid 4 koma manga are listed in the lineup.The release date of the 1st issue is March 9.

P.S. does this thread cover Force Dimension?or general manga thread?
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Old 2011-02-13, 10:12   Link #279
Keroko
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I'd say Force and anything related to it.
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Old 2011-02-13, 10:18   Link #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JINNSK View Post
Firstly please note:nano of nano ace is not nano of Nanoha.Don't misunderstand it please.

http://www.kadokawa.co.jp/ace/4koma/
Kadokawa's new magazine 4 koma nano ace was announced.All of its contents are 4 koma manga and Force Dimension and new ViVid 4 koma manga are listed in the lineup.The release date of the 1st issue is March 9.

P.S. does this thread cover Force Dimension?or general manga thread?
*Twitch* *twitch* The Nanoha 4Koma are back?

*Goes off and smashes something out of sheer frustration.*
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