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Old 2011-02-11, 14:35   Link #241
Claies
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Originally Posted by ZeKeR View Post
or more like she's the shadow of the blade. she's not the one holding it, but is the one directing it to him. well she didnt go personal in saying it, right?
I don't quite follow what you're saying, but sure it's personal. He exposed her, so she has a grudge. How would it not be personal?
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Old 2011-02-11, 14:56   Link #242
felix
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well she didnt go personal in saying it, right?
I don't think she could have gone more personal.
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Old 2011-02-11, 16:28   Link #243
Anh_Minh
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Well... she doesn't have to be, but that panel makes her look more prominent than the other bullies, as if to make it the most significant thing she has done to him in the past.

That she was a leader in the bullying was the feeling I got from it.
That would seem out of character. Then again, she's older now. Maybe she was nastier when she was younger, but I doubt it. I also doubt she'd associate with bullies in the first place. Toru said it: that she's always had a sense of justice, and that she'd make a good cop. He wouldn't say that of a thug.

There are several reasons she could be prominent:
- She the one who, in a way, instigated it, since she's the one who outed him.
- He feels guilty. About outing her, about lying...
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Old 2011-02-11, 16:44   Link #244
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Actually I'm wondering if her sense of justice is somehow related to her completely messing Toru's life.
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Old 2011-02-11, 21:08   Link #245
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Just picked this series up and am liking it thus far.
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Old 2011-02-11, 23:46   Link #246
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Originally Posted by Claies View Post
I don't quite follow what you're saying, but sure it's personal. He exposed her, so she has a grudge. How would it not be personal?
no.. i mean...

she didnt really say "he's the iris hunter" or some sort. she didnt go and personally hold the blade to stab his back, rather she just passed smaller blades to the people to let THEM stab him... thats my lulz point.
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Old 2011-02-11, 23:49   Link #247
Claies
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That would seem out of character. Then again, she's older now. Maybe she was nastier when she was younger, but I doubt it. I also doubt she'd associate with bullies in the first place. Toru said it: that she's always had a sense of justice, and that she'd make a good cop. He wouldn't say that of a thug.

There are several reasons she could be prominent:
- She the one who, in a way, instigated it, since she's the one who outed him.
- He feels guilty. About outing her, about lying...
I don't see how a sense of justice would stop someone from returning a dead serious grudge.

In fact, a strong sense of justice could easily cause someone to be overzealous in seeking said justice. For example, someone who has a strong sense of justice against those who steal from others might go as far as to pursue and punish the unfortunate who must steal to keep their families alive - as logical as such justice can be, does that make him a better person for going this far?

Imagine little Toru trying to tell everyone that he isn't an Iris Zero, that he really has one after all, that he just doesn't want to show it to them. Asahi hates lies to a fault, so you could imagine her being the person that I described above, punishing him for lying to save himself. Also, ratting your classmates out for having contraband in their bags is an easy way to make enemies, as justified as it may be.

So you could say that she was immature, with heavy consequences. Someday, she realized that there should be a pragmatic boundary to this.
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Old 2011-02-12, 06:08   Link #248
Anh_Minh
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I don't see how a sense of justice would stop someone from returning a dead serious grudge.

In fact, a strong sense of justice could easily cause someone to be overzealous in seeking said justice. For example, someone who has a strong sense of justice against those who steal from others might go as far as to pursue and punish the unfortunate who must steal to keep their families alive - as logical as such justice can be, does that make him a better person for going this far?

Imagine little Toru trying to tell everyone that he isn't an Iris Zero, that he really has one after all, that he just doesn't want to show it to them. Asahi hates lies to a fault, so you could imagine her being the person that I described above, punishing him for lying to save himself.
She'd call him a liar if he tried to, well, lie again, yes. (His mistake in the first place. He should have kept his mouth shut about his iris. He wouldn't have been the only one.)

What she wouldn't do is vandalize his things or go out of her way to torment him for being an Iris Zero. Or associate with the kind of people who would. What, after all, would she do if a teacher asked who did it?


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Also, ratting your classmates out for having contraband in their bags is an easy way to make enemies, as justified as it may be.
Yeah. So?
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Old 2011-02-12, 06:27   Link #249
felix
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What she wouldn't do is vandalize his things or go out of her way to torment him for being an Iris Zero. Or associate with the kind of people who would.
You're comparing her too much with her current self. You don't know she wouldn't do those things; heck she went as far as clobber a teacher, a little vandalism in her more emo-years would be nothing.
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Old 2011-02-12, 08:27   Link #250
Anh_Minh
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You're comparing her too much with her current self.
Maybe.

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You don't know she wouldn't do those things; heck she went as far as clobber a teacher, a little vandalism in her more emo-years would be nothing.
On the contrary. Hitting the teacher was a hot tempered reaction, precisely similar to her lashing out at him years ago. Then she immediately tried to protect that teacher, instead of defending herself.

Vandalism and bullying is something colder, pettier and nastier. It's not something a "good cop" would do. Neither is it something someone who had no friends herself would engage in.
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Old 2011-02-12, 08:34   Link #251
felix
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On the contrary. Hitting the teacher was a hot tempered reaction, precisely similar to her lashing out at him years ago. Then she immediately tried to protect that teacher, instead of defending herself.

Vandalism and bullying is something colder, pettier and nastier. It's not something a "good cop" would do. Neither is it something someone who had no friends herself would engage in.
That can also be explained as her current self remembering her past mistakes (Toru), after lashing out. Not saying it's one or the other, just saying it's another interpretation…
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Old 2011-02-12, 08:41   Link #252
Anh_Minh
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That can also be explained as her current self remembering her past mistakes (Toru), after lashing out. Not saying it's one or the other, just saying it's another interpretation…
Oh, yes. I think it did help her realize what kind of harm blabbing other people's secrets could do. But I'm saying is, she still wanted to protect the teacher.
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Old 2011-02-12, 09:02   Link #253
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But I'm saying is, she still wanted to protect the teacher.
Yeah, but like I said her current self isn't necessarily how her past self was.
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Old 2011-02-12, 23:49   Link #254
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You're comparing her too much with her current self. You don't know she wouldn't do those things; heck she went as far as clobber a teacher, a little vandalism in her more emo-years would be nothing.
Slippery slope is not a valid argument.

Also, all we have learned from Yuki, past and present, is that she is aggressive, not that she holds grudges. Having a character that would retaliate is a different and separate case from having a character that would hold a grudge and continue to lash out over an extended period of time.

Also, there's no evidence of Yuki leading the bullying. In the intro, if that was her, she just called Toru a liar. There are no pages showing her continuing to pester Toru after their initial confrontation. In fact, at the end of ch1, Yuki's surprise at seeing Toru's face suggests that they haven't talked to each other in a long time.
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Old 2011-02-13, 03:34   Link #255
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Seems like someone has been skipping pages.

.
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Old 2011-02-13, 06:53   Link #256
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lol did he say the ability to see"what 's for dinner"?
pff so lame
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Old 2011-02-14, 04:18   Link #257
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Originally Posted by felix View Post
Seems like someone has been skipping pages.

.
That's probably how Toru saw it in his point of view. For all we know she could've just pointed a finger and say liar. Then went on with her day without associating herself with him throughout the next couple of years. Although this action did leave the gateway of misery open for Toru. What I'm trying to say is that children sometimes tend to exaggerate situations. I mean it's obvious that he went through a lot of crap, but I think the highlight on her as lead bully is just making reference to her starting everything.
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Old 2011-02-14, 05:16   Link #258
felix
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The sequence doesn't have a dream like decoration, it looks pretty clear to be a flashback. Given they went from inside to outside with Toru's belonging vandalized, I'd say if it wasn't her he wouldn't really have remembered her explicitly — if all she did was just call him a liar that is.
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Old 2011-02-14, 06:32   Link #259
noobita
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Why you guys make a fuss over Yuki's character? Maybe she indeed was a prick when she was younger, but this doesn't matter anymore since she is changed when she grew older. If Toru didn't care and being perfect fine with her being his friend, why would we care?
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Old 2011-02-14, 12:13   Link #260
Shadow5YA
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Seems like someone has been skipping pages.

.
Those are the pages I was referring to. We have Yuki pushing Toru down, then calling him a liar while he's still on the ground. Where is the evidence that this is beyond their first confrontation?
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