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Old 2009-03-21, 20:10   Link #81
Kotobasuu
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Well at the time Liz wasnt really in any serious danger. I think it could change if one of the sisters were in a dire life threatening situation, and if physical combat with the enemy was impossible.

If Kidd actually did nothing in that situation though, and if one of the sisters got killed, i wonder how badly it would affect him.
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Old 2009-03-21, 20:39   Link #82
libba
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(I've read an amazing little fanfic about exactly that kind of situation. Only it wasn't quite so... terminal.)

I think it would affect him pretty badly. It would deepen his inner conflict to the point of breaking. On one hand, his ever-burning need for perfection, on the other hand, him failing horribly because of this very need. Thus striving for perfection leads to worsening imperfection = mind explodes.

I also want to know more about their first months together. So much. It had to be difficult: Kid, who isn't the easiest person to get along with, and two street fighters who probably never had a chance to trust anyone but each other or even to treat another person as someone who's not a potential victim or a probable threat. How did they get from that to the practically intimate dynamic we see now?
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Old 2009-12-09, 16:12   Link #83
brodyblackout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by libba View Post
(I've read an amazing little fanfic about exactly that kind of situation. Only it wasn't quite so... terminal.)

I think it would affect him pretty badly. It would deepen his inner conflict to the point of breaking. On one hand, his ever-burning need for perfection, on the other hand, him failing horribly because of this very need. Thus striving for perfection leads to worsening imperfection = mind explodes.

I also want to know more about their first months together. So much. It had to be difficult: Kid, who isn't the easiest person to get along with, and two street fighters who probably never had a chance to trust anyone but each other or even to treat another person as someone who's not a potential victim or a probable threat. How did they get from that to the practically intimate dynamic we see now?
i would enjoy getting a glimpse into their origins as well
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Old 2009-12-10, 21:33   Link #84
lmd_84
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I'm not sure we'll get much in the way of their backgrounds. Perhaps a couple of flashbacks as the others have gotten, but not much. Kid also needs something more, though I suspect whatever his background contains might turn out to be a big deal (specifically, his origins and what the Sanzu Lines mean).

I think the fact Kid and the Thompsons are currently separated might (okay, should as it isn't already) be used for something. We've seen that Liz and Patti could be an effective team on their own, although Okubo's yet to actually use this for anything. With few exceptions, Kid seems to fight only with Liz and Patti and its only recently that we're seeing any practical reminders of the fact he isn't human.

He also handles his obsessions mostly because he has the sisters around, and we don't know how he'd react without them. His reaction to imprisonment so far seems to be based on the belief that, really, these people who talk about chaos and 'loosening up' are just foolish and not worth bothering about.

I'd like to see Kid actually get challenged and see how he copes without Liz and Patti to back him up. However, he got into this situation because he was over-reacting and not thinking, so I don't have my hopes up for a positive outcome should he actually get into difficulties. (Yes, he's chained up. But that's it. Noah is a joke.)
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Old 2009-12-11, 00:26   Link #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmd_84 View Post
I'm not sure we'll get much in the way of their backgrounds. Perhaps a couple of flashbacks as the others have gotten, but not much. Kid also needs something more, though I suspect whatever his background contains might turn out to be a big deal (specifically, his origins and what the Sanzu Lines mean).
You're probably right, and i find it saddening. The fact Ohkubo is limiting backstory so much is one of the biggest flaws in this series. Granted im not losing all hope, as it took a good 58 chapters before Soul got anything whatsoever.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lmd_84 View Post
I think the fact Kid and the Thompsons are currently separated might (okay, should as it isn't already) be used for something. We've seen that Liz and Patti could be an effective team on their own, although Okubo's yet to actually use this for anything. With few exceptions, Kid seems to fight only with Liz and Patti and its only recently that we're seeing any practical reminders of the fact he isn't human.
Liz and Patti have been put aside for a good majority of the series so there really is no excuse for Ohkubo not to use Kidd's abduction as an opportunity for character development, but i lowered those expectations in chapter 67 where Ohkubo clearly missed a good chance there despite fanboying the feck out of Patti only a few chapters ago.

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Originally Posted by lmd_84 View Post
I'd like to see Kid actually get challenged and see how he copes without Liz and Patti to back him up. However, he got into this situation because he was over-reacting and not thinking, so I don't have my hopes up for a positive outcome should he actually get into difficulties. (Yes, he's chained up. But that's it. Noah is a joke.)
Yeahh im quite disappointed with Noah as well. So far hes just shown that he likes to collect little asymmetrical children and hold occasional bondage sessions. Hopefully he'll do something relevently interesting someday. ;|
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Old 2009-12-13, 15:20   Link #86
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The thing about backstory is that it seems to be working in roughly the same order character-specific subplots do. That is, we get bits in different places for each main group as the story continues. Tsubaki and Black Star got there first with Masamune and Mifune respectively, then Maka and Soul with Italy continuing into the Clown and Arachne bits.

Which, as with Mifune, appear to run into one another so far as progression and characterisation goes. Alongside how the kids defeat the latest tougher threat (TV Tropes calls this the Sorting Algorithm of Evil, meaning that I now have a name for...one of those structures that turn up in series like this - though I suspect Noah's gone and broken it) we find out more about them as people.

Kid, on the other hand, doesn't really have that. He's stuck as he was at the beginning of the series - powerful, confident of his skills to an extent without being arrogant, and getting through the story by virtue of being that much stronger than his peers (and so capable of handling most of what they encounter) in spite of his obsessions and self-image issues.

And then the Baba Yaga arc happened. He goes from being the one character lacking any major challenge so far to being brought down in a truly brutal fashion by Mosquito, and his single-mindedness leading him to get kidnapped.

Unlike the others, we've not found out some new take on his character or motivations, we know nothing of his past, and there's been no catalyst for Kid to put any such information into a brand-new powerup of his own.

The only reason he survived fighting the vampire was possibly because Shinigami gave him Brew for that purpose (if anyone else has a better idea, I'd love to hear it because there seemed no good reason for the tool to be around until it saved Kid's skinny backside).

From the order in which the three groups originally appeared, I can understand that Okubo might have a structure to doing this sort of thing (characterisation, important subplot, relevant progression of skills), but so far the formula is lacking for his final three.

Of course, saying this, in Kid's case any info on his background is going to be bound up with Shinigami's. Black Star's and Maka's parents have been obvious influences on them from the start, but none of them have the same association to the entire story as Shinigami does. Theirs is more an individual effect.
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Old 2009-12-14, 17:40   Link #87
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Sorting Algorithm of Evil isn't realy what goes on in SE. I mean, If that were true then why was Mifune the first person te be defeted by Black Star? Not to mention no one of Medusa's original gang has been killed. I won't go on describing more subversions of that trope since that would take me all night...

But I agree that there is a structure/pattern in the plot though...
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Old 2009-12-14, 19:07   Link #88
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I see your point, as while we do go through threats to Shibusen they're not necessarily defeated in some order of strength.
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Old 2009-12-14, 22:55   Link #89
Kamden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kotobasuu View Post
Liz and Patti have been put aside for a good majority of the series so there really is no excuse for Ohkubo not to use Kidd's abduction as an opportunity for character development, but i lowered those expectations in chapter 67 where Ohkubo clearly missed a good chance there despite fanboying the feck out of Patti only a few chapters ago.
I was disappointed by the lack of Liz and Patty development in 67 as well, but I think he's saving their development for a bit later. The unofficial Law of Shonen Manga is that there has to be something new in every chapter, and every fight has to have something new as well, whether it be a new power up, new match-up, or a twist. I think Ookubo is saving the Patty/Liz fight for the arc when they rescue Kid, rather than using that card sooner and then reusing it again for the rescue.


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Originally Posted by lmd_84 View Post

Kid, on the other hand, doesn't really have that. He's stuck as he was at the beginning of the series - powerful, confident of his skills to an extent without being arrogant, and getting through the story by virtue of being that much stronger than his peers (and so capable of handling most of what they encounter) in spite of his obsessions and self-image issues.

And then the Baba Yaga arc happened. He goes from being the one character lacking any major challenge so far to being brought down in a truly brutal fashion by Mosquito, and his single-mindedness leading him to get kidnapped.

Unlike the others, we've not found out some new take on his character or motivations, we know nothing of his past, and there's been no catalyst for Kid to put any such information into a brand-new powerup of his own.
There are a few points here that I disagree with. First of all, Kid did have character development and challenges throughout the series, even before the Baba Yaga arc. During the Black Dragon mini-arc, Kid discovered that his father was hiding Shibusen secrets from him, like the presence of a Kishin beneath the school. He began struggling with the fact that his father was hiding things from him, as he learned that there was so much he didn't know. He went from "I'm a Shinigami, so I know everything I need to know about souls" to "What is my father hiding? Why don't I know this? Is Shibusen really ethical in its methods?"

Then, in the Runaway Train mini-arc, Fisher King dropped the "Eibon bomb" on Kid. He discovered that his father was connected to the "evil" Eibon and the demon tools, the ones he was instructed to retrieve for his father on two (or three, for the anime fans) occasions. No matter how much research he did, Kid found something else he did not know, and the Eibon issue will continue to be very relevant to his character, especially since he is now stuck in Eibon's book.

Yes, Kid hasn't gotten the same amount of character development as Maka or Black*Star (yet), but he wasn't a flat character at all. As you said, Kid began as a character with confidence in his abilities, but his confidence began to waver with the multiple "wake-up calls" he received, well before Baba Yaga. With Black*Star concluding his struggles with his heritage and with Mifune, I do believe Kid will get his major character development next, especially with the Eibon issue still unresolved.

As for the Mosquito fight, Kid wasn't "brought down." While Kid did endure severe injuries in the fight, it was Mosquito that retreated (due to severe injuries of his own, and for concern for Arachne), therefore making Kid the victor. Plus, it was Kid's goal to destroy the Magic Lock, whereas it was Mosquito's goal to protect it, so it was Kid's victory on two counts.

Quote:
Of course, saying this, in Kid's case any info on his background is going to be bound up with Shinigami's. Black Star's and Maka's parents have been obvious influences on them from the start, but none of them have the same association to the entire story as Shinigami does. Theirs is more an individual effect.
I agree that Kid's backstory and future development will be tied to his father, not only for the reasons I've described above, but because Kid is the heir to his father's position, and he and his father are the only Shinigami we know (and probably the only Shinigami we'll see). But, Kid's development will also be tied with Eibon as well, just like how a lot of Black*Star's development is tied to Mifune and Maka's is to Crona and Medusa.
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Old 2009-12-15, 18:02   Link #90
lmd_84
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Fair points about Kid's development - his attitude has changed, although not in the same fashion the others' have.

Still, I disagree with your opinion on Mosquito. Yes, he forced Mosquito to retreat and he did indeed achieve the objective by destroying the lock. But prior to Brew's influence, that was the only fight so far where Kid's been shown to be at that much of a disadvantage.

The others have had their brushes with death and moments when they've needed either sudden revelation (black blood, Demon Hunter) or training (Nakatsukasa Purpose) to get them through.

Yet Kid has not had a moment like that. IIRC: the Pharoah was no big deal once Kid was sufficiently provoked; Crona was an even match with neither causing great injury although Crona did end up retreating; Kid pitched in during the Brew mission like everyone else, with Maka commenting on how it's easy to forget he's a shinigami.

Mosquito, I think, was something different. We started off pretty much as Kid normally does. He's fast, he's strong, this is not new information. The only initial difference is Liz's comment that he's fighting "seriously" (or something to that effect) without distraction. Similar, visually at least, to his reaction Black Star during their second fight - a previous occasion where he's got more than symmetry on his mind.

And yet Mosquito isn't only putting up a fight, he pulls off a transformation that incapacitates Kid immediately ("Not even one second") and leaves him no opportunity to fight back. Irrespective of what Brew then does, it's that moment that sticks out for me as one when Kid was 'brought down' in a sense. His best moves, explicitly acting without any obsessions nagging him, he had been beaten at that moment. Without the tool, which he apparently had no idea would have that effect, he would have been killed.
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Old 2010-07-24, 11:04   Link #91
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Kid is a pimp.
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Old 2010-08-11, 21:40   Link #92
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i wont to now more about kids past
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Old 2010-09-13, 09:09   Link #93
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To those who were eager to know something about the Thompson sisters backstory, what are you waiting to read this month's chapter?
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Old 2010-09-13, 09:38   Link #94
GlassesLady
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I dunno about them, but I'm waiting for scanlations, personally. :/
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Old 2010-09-17, 08:46   Link #95
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nahhhhhhhhhhh............ i love the thompson sister
why secret ...... but i guess everyone love the thompson sister cause they are pretty funny
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Old 2010-09-19, 17:52   Link #96
Repelsteeltju
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Yeah! I love Patti she's great! =3
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Old 2010-12-11, 10:05   Link #97
Marik Swift
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Is it possible that Kid and the Thompson has anything going?
I mean pretty much any Meister and Weapon could hook up even with age difference,Kid probably is even older than the rest of the group considering the fact that he is a Shinigami and is Death's son.
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Old 2010-12-14, 09:25   Link #98
chachaboru
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death the kid is the most awesome gunslinger character i know!!
i like him because of his obsession for keeping things
symmetrical and the part where he wrote his name on the test paper in the anime
really made me laugh, he's such a perfectionist!
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Old 2011-02-15, 07:53   Link #99
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Death the KID is one of my favorite anime character.

HAHA . He is so hilarious. <3 and that's what i[COLOR="rgb(221, 160, 221)"] love [/COLOR]about HIM.

remember the episode idon'tknowwhat , well it was about their examination .

he wasn't done writing his name .. haha .. cuz he wants it to be perfect.


) I LOVE THAT EPISODE. :P
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Old 2011-02-21, 17:58   Link #100
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Kid is a pimp.
Damn straight.

edit:

What was Kidd's theme song again?
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