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Old 2011-02-16, 17:19   Link #281
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
Ok, it's just pissing me off now. Kazehaya outright tells her he loves her, he even clarified his confession by later using "Koi", I can't fathom how it's possible to misinterpret that yet Sawako still managed to do it. Dear lord. At this point, I'm almost starting to think her problem isn't her pathological self-doubt and utter lack of confidence -- she might truly be autistic.

A little more of this and I'm dropping this series. The charm of the first season is completely gone.
In her defense, the three idiots didn't get it either. (The friggin bastards. I'm not saying they should die in a fire, but still.)

Oh, well. Their relationship's hit rock bottom. Time to bounce.
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Old 2011-02-16, 18:30   Link #282
Cloud Sculptor
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Season 1: amazingly beautiful story with high levels of character development and comedy, with just a touch of drama.

Season 2: a downward spiral into melodrama and stupidity, using the old calling cards of 'misinterpreting' and 'no one clarifies their statements'. You know, all the melodrama could have been avoided thus far if Ayane just actually finished her sentences when she starts to tell people whats actually going on. The fact that she gets interrupted EVERY SINGLE TIME is horribly grating.
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Old 2011-02-16, 18:36   Link #283
Shiroth
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Originally Posted by Cloud Sculptor View Post
You know, all the melodrama could have been avoided thus far if Ayane just actually finished her sentences when she starts to tell people whats actually going on. The fact that she gets interrupted EVERY SINGLE TIME is horribly grating.
Ayane has not planned to tell Kazehaya or Sawako the truth about their feelings. This is the first time Ayane was going to tell Sawako, so i really have no idea what you're on about.
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Old 2011-02-16, 18:46   Link #284
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Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
Ayane has not planned to tell Kazehaya or Sawako the truth about their feelings. This is the first time Ayane was going to tell Sawako, so i really have no idea what you're on about.
I don't just mean Kazehaya and Sawako, I mean everybody. Ayane realizes how everyone else feels even before they realize it themselves. Shes the only one with a clue. She doesn't want to force the issues by starting to talk about it, but dear god these people are dense. They really need someone to tell them which way the sun sets, cause right now they're just wandering around in circles.
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Old 2011-02-16, 20:02   Link #285
Grifis
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I thought they got to somewhere in S1 and now S2 is back to square one. Ep 5 wasn't too bad. I haven't watched ep 6 yet but judging from the reactions maybe I shouldn't watch it to save myself from unnecessary frustration. I think theme of S2 is frustration (in various different ways) which is not something I look for when watching an anime. (Maybe I'll just re-watch Blue Green Years and Akachan to Boku for some real enjoyment.)
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Old 2011-02-16, 21:08   Link #286
Waven
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Originally Posted by Cloud Sculptor View Post
I don't just mean Kazehaya and Sawako, I mean everybody. Ayane realizes how everyone else feels even before they realize it themselves. Shes the only one with a clue. She doesn't want to force the issues by starting to talk about it, but dear god these people are dense. They really need someone to tell them which way the sun sets, cause right now they're just wandering around in circles.
Typical omniscient observer syndrome

... Ayane already predicted the outcome if she just intervened last episode: Sawako would still think that Kazehaya just acts out of kindness.

As I mentioned before S1 was not so much about romantic development as it was about teaching Sawako some basic social skills, which she shows to have adapted to in S2 way more casually than S1, so there's her development. Love however is a whole new level for her, it has been shown in S1 several times that although she admit her feelings for him she would freak out at the thought of actually making a move or the possibility of him holding the same feelings, she was simply overwhelmed. Now please tell me, what exactly happened between the end of season 1 up to now that could have justified a development for her not to be overwhelmed again and thus misunderstand the situation?

... tbh I would've been really disappointed if she actually believed him as easy as that because that would've been really ooc as well as anticlimatic as hell. This is were patience comes into play: KnT is developing slowly in some aspects, however, it's not that different to S1, no one seemed to really care back then ... what has changed? Is it really just the higher level of drama?
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Old 2011-02-17, 00:35   Link #287
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Originally Posted by Waven View Post
what has changed? Is it really just the higher level of drama?
Yea, basically. There was pretty much no melodrama in S1. The slow pacing and focus on the inner monologues is something I like... when they're not having retarded self-inflicted issues. I really just don't get this whole 'I'm just a bother to him/her' mentality that both of them are having right now. They had the psuedo-date at the end of S1, and then... months go by where they distance themselves from each other, for no reason other than their own self-inflicted fears. At this point, I'm rooting for self-confident Kent, at least he knows how to get his point across.
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Old 2011-02-17, 00:45   Link #288
GreatTeacherKen
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This episode moved me more than the manga counterpart; S.E.N.S's superb music was what did it for me.
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Old 2011-02-17, 03:10   Link #289
grey_moon
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Wow classic love attack from Kento, nasty but very effective.

Anyway onto epi 6, great build up and hopefully this will be enough to snap Sawako out of her mindset. It must be horrible to be treated in such a way that you can't believe in yourself. She does so well right now I wonder how she will blossom when she has some self belief?

Shouta and Sawako's misunderstanding really highlights how Sawako see's herself and how hard it is for someone like Kento or Shouta to understand her.

Ayane again is just great, not just for Sawako but for Chi too. She is the real master, Sawako u are learning from the wrong person!!!!

Gambatte Sawako datchi!!!!!!
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Old 2011-02-17, 05:14   Link #290
Spectacular_Insanity
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Dear God, I hate to make my recent posts so negative (I'm not trolling, trust me), but this makes me want to drop this series.

Sawako needs to just freaking say she loves him. TWO WORDS ("suki desu") would more-or-less fix everything, but she just sits there and stays quiet. Kazehaya's much to blame too. He doesn't understand Sawako's tears, the bastard.

It makes me rage A LOT. Sawako and Kazehaya both throwing themselves separate pity-parties is just pathetic.

Kent > Kazehaya at this point for me, if only because he's not only a nice guy, but also seems to care for Sawako's feelings, to boot. On the surface, he's really laid back, but I get the impression he really does care. Kazehaya, on the other hand, is so preoccupied with himself currently that he's blind to what Sawako's feeling. Grrrrr. I can't believe Kazehaya actually thinks that Sawako would cry if she WASN'T in love with him. What a moron.

I'm not going to drop this series. Yet. However, if we don't come out of this pit of melodramatic bullshit soon (as in the next 3-4 episodes), I swear to God I'm gonna drop it.
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Old 2011-02-17, 05:23   Link #291
Seta19
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@kanon

u mad?
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Old 2011-02-17, 06:04   Link #292
zebra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud Sculptor View Post
Yea, basically. There was pretty much no melodrama in S1. The slow pacing and focus on the inner monologues is something I like... when they're not having retarded self-inflicted issues.
Well, it's been said before, but S1 is full of that, too. Just more in the friend realm than the love realm: Sawako saying Chizu and Ayana aren't friends, Kurumi's plan's etc. I found these episodes frustrating like hell, too.
"YOU'RE ALREADY FRIENDS YOU IDIOT!" is what I'd have screamed at Sawako if she weren't made of ink.

This is the first time we see Kazehaya and Sawako's relationship in true danger, that's the big difference. It's all been cake and cutsy with them till now - slowmotion development aside.
The problem only is: Despite everything that happened Sawako hasn't changed the way she perceives herself. Just like she wasn't able to grasp that her new friends simply like her; it's beyond her that Kazehaya could have fallen for her instead of just being nice and refreshing. Sawa isn't used to people liking her or not avoiding her for that matter.

It'd be out of character for Sawako to simply conclude "oh he likes me", instead of misunderstanding like she did.

I clapped hooray at Chizu for telling her off. Her wise moments are few, but that makes them just the more awesome. She needs to get out of this "I'm not worth anything" mentality she has developed over her ... whole lifetime .

Knowing it's perfectly reasonable how she acts didn't help my frustration, though. God, how I dreaded this episode
They like each other. He confesses. Three times.
BOTH misunderstand.
Both think they've been rejected.

WTH. While I get what the mangaka wnated to get across with this choice ... it's just so teethshattering headdesk worthy that I have to ask: Was there no other way to create drama between them?

.. I'm just looking forward to the next episode xD
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Old 2011-02-17, 06:08   Link #293
Waven
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity View Post
...

Kent > Kazehaya at this point for me, if only because he's not only a nice guy, but also seems to care for Sawako's feelings, to boot. On the surface, he's really laid back, but I get the impression he really does care. Kazehaya, on the other hand, is so preoccupied with himself currently that he's blind to what Sawako's feeling. Grrrrr. I can't believe Kazehaya actually thinks that Sawako would cry if she WASN'T in love with him. What a moron.
...
That's already borderline troll ... j/k

Kent is to some degree caring for Sawako, that's true. However even though his motives are basiacally pure he misses some valid points to be qualified a real help. It's actually him who's acting nice towards Sawako out of pity, not Kazehaya. That's why he proposed to date her even though they don't really know each other for too long. He sees her as the ugly duckling, that's why he can't imagine Kazehaya loving her to begin with. Finally, he's not even trying to really understand Sawako. From the beginning of their interactions he has just made assumptions instead of finding out about what's going on, he left too many gaps before properly solving the riddle. This ignorance is most evident in the fact that Kent is still calling her Sadako ... no, he understands her the least. He's a good guy, I give him that but he's also too conceited to see the truth.

About Kazehaya, I don't think he can be blind to something he isn't able to see in the first place right now. What in the story could've assured him that she has actually the same feelings for him? Her crying? Not really. He can assume she's crying because while she's still thankful for all he did she is also sorry to not love him back. Or is it because of his confidence with girls since he's such an idol? It doesn't exist when it comes to actual romantic feelings since, unless someone proves me otherwise, he most probably didn't have a love interest in life before so he's bound to be almost as insecure as her. Just look at how many times he was embarassed, flustered or jealous when it came to Sawako.
He is not the typical flawless and omnipotent bishounen you often see in other shoujo, he has clearly outlined weaknesses.

... ahh and sorry about the wall of text, I gotta learn to shorten my posts
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Old 2011-02-17, 06:08   Link #294
MeoTwister5
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Well like I said in my previous post, we just hit what IMHO is the official low point of the story, so things should get better again from here.
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Old 2011-02-17, 06:50   Link #295
Shiroth
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Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Well like I said in my previous post, we just hit what IMHO is the official low point of the story, so things should get better again from here.
So development of our main character is a low point?
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Old 2011-02-17, 06:54   Link #296
MeoTwister5
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Well I don't enjoy every bit of character development we get per se, and a low point doesn't mean it's a useless scene that detracts from the overall story. Yes I understand that it's a very in-character and almost required section that advances the plot and the characters, and even though it does that very well, it doesn't mean I enjoy it just because it does its job.
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Old 2011-02-17, 07:30   Link #297
Spectacular_Insanity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waven View Post
That's already borderline troll ... j/k

Kent is to some degree caring for Sawako, that's true. However even though his motives are basiacally pure he misses some valid points to be qualified a real help. It's actually him who's acting nice towards Sawako out of pity, not Kazehaya. That's why he proposed to date her even though they don't really know each other for too long. He sees her as the ugly duckling, that's why he can't imagine Kazehaya loving her to begin with. Finally, he's not even trying to really understand Sawako. From the beginning of their interactions he has just made assumptions instead of finding out about what's going on, he left too many gaps before properly solving the riddle. This ignorance is most evident in the fact that Kent is still calling her Sadako ... no, he understands her the least. He's a good guy, I give him that but he's also too conceited to see the truth.

About Kazehaya, I don't think he can be blind to something he isn't able to see in the first place right now. What in the story could've assured him that she has actually the same feelings for him? Her crying? Not really. He can assume she's crying because while she's still thankful for all he did she is also sorry to not love him back. Or is it because of his confidence with girls since he's such an idol? It doesn't exist when it comes to actual romantic feelings since, unless someone proves me otherwise, he most probably didn't have a love interest in life before so he's bound to be almost as insecure as her. Just look at how many times he was embarassed, flustered or jealous when it came to Sawako.
He is not the typical flawless and omnipotent bishounen you often see in other shoujo, he has clearly outlined weaknesses.

... ahh and sorry about the wall of text, I gotta learn to shorten my posts
I see your point. I think I probably feel the way I do because Kazehaya is pissed me off with his impatience.

Though after further consideration, I think I might agree with Kanon by saying that Sawako might actually be autistic. I mean, it takes serious leaps of faulty logic to arrive at the conclusion that Kazehaya is "just being nice" to her, especially after Kazehaya tells Sawako straight to her face that he loves her. That goes beyond just a lack of social skills and into outright stupidity.

I can see why Kazehaya is insecure, but Sawako has no excuse after Kazehaya finally manned up and told her.
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Old 2011-02-17, 07:53   Link #298
Cloud Sculptor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity View Post
I see your point. I think I probably feel the way I do because Kazehaya is pissed me off with his impatience.

Though after further consideration, I think I might agree with Kanon by saying that Sawako might actually be autistic. I mean, it takes serious leaps of faulty logic to arrive at the conclusion that Kazehaya is "just being nice" to her, especially after Kazehaya tells Sawako straight to her face that he loves her. That goes beyond just a lack of social skills and into outright stupidity.

I can see why Kazehaya is insecure, but Sawako has no excuse after Kazehaya finally manned up and told her.
I've come to a realization: its not autism, its padding. They could have been in a relationship by episode 3 of S2, but hey, the fans will wait...

Also: Pin needs more love. Barely seen him in S2. I swear we need a Pin-tastic episode as a breather from all this melodrama.
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Old 2011-02-17, 08:41   Link #299
Waven
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You can't put this whole package of blame on one single character. Both, Kazehaya and Sawako are equally to blame for this misunderstanding as they are both involved in creating it as well as being unable to see through it at this point but ultimately they are both lacking communication.

Add in some disctracting hits by Kent (obviously) , Chizu (telling Kazehaya he's the most distant to Sawako) and somehow even Kurumi (rekindling Sawako's doubts and insecurity) and you have quite the fine web of misleading information and false assumptions where it's impossible to clearly say which single character is to fully blame.

Tbh I think this misunderstanding is cleverly constructed and really good writing, especially if compared to how simple and boring other series' misunderstandings usually work: "Oh gosh, pushy female side character has made a move on main male character which main female character misunderstands and thus ends up being pissed at main male character." (switch genders for shoujo scenario)

Anyway, I totally understand if people get frustrated with such a situation and drama but to some degree that's what these episodes/chapters are supposed to. Again, you can't appreciate the light if you've never been in the dark ... ok that was kinda cheesy i admit but you get the idea
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Old 2011-02-17, 10:07   Link #300
Kanon
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
In her defense, the three idiots didn't get it either. (The friggin bastards. I'm not saying they should die in a fire, but still.)

Oh, well. Their relationship's hit rock bottom. Time to bounce.
The three stooges weren't there when he used the word "Koi" , so they have an excuse. Furthermore, they don't know jack about Sawako and Kazehaya's relationship. As complete outsiders it's easy for them to misunderstand, although their logic ("it's impossible Kazehaya would fall for someone like her, lolilol") was quite douchey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seta19 View Post
@kanon

u mad?
Nah. More like frustrated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waven View Post
You can't put this whole package of blame on one single character. Both, Kazehaya and Sawako are equally to blame for this misunderstanding as they are both involved in creating it as well as being unable to see through it at this point but ultimately they are both lacking communication.

Add in some disctracting hits by Kent (obviously) , Chizu (telling Kazehaya he's the most distant to Sawako) and somehow even Kurumi (rekindling Sawako's doubts and insecurity) and you have quite the fine web of misleading information and false assumptions where it's impossible to clearly say which single character is to fully blame.
I agree it's not entirely Sawako's fault. Kazehaya's "your like isn't the same as my like" was completely needles for instance. It only added to her confusion.

I've been rewatching this scene, and I think I understand a bit more why Sawako misinterpreted what I thought was a crystal clear line. Koui (kindness) and Koi (love) sound pretty much the same, so that's why she misunderstood Kazehaya's declaration.

Shiiiiit. I just checked the manga raw and he did say Koui. Oh, the irony! I'm the one who misunderstood!
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