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Old 2010-12-22, 03:40   Link #61
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
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Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
*snip*
It's "inspired" by Pani Poni Dash, basically.

I really wish Shaft was doing this instead...
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Old 2010-12-22, 03:42   Link #62
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^ Oh yes.... PPDash...

I remember how crazy... and awesome it was.
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Old 2010-12-22, 04:43   Link #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
^ Oh yes.... PPDash...

I remember how crazy... and awesome it was.
Pani Poni Dash was definitely a fun series over all. Plus, it was kind of nice to have a series that essentially pointed out the following. That the other classes are capable of having their weird students as well.

That being said, there were times it felt like in Pani Poni Dash, that the characters become secondary to the segments. Or something like that, I'm not sure how to explain it, plus I'm remembering wrong.


As for Nichijou, I've read about 17 or so chapters of it. It's definitely different in feel than past Kyo-Ani series. Then again, it's not like K-ON! and Lucky Star were the same exact experience either.

Well, in the end what matters to me most is the fact that with the TV confirmation, I'll have a series to look forward to this Spring. Perhaps even more depending on how I feel.
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Old 2011-02-18, 03:59   Link #64
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A new preview for this. For the record, I am still looking forward to this. One of the higher level interest spring series for me. Mio, Yuuko, and Nano are the main ones that I'm focused on.
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Old 2011-02-18, 17:14   Link #65
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Looks like it's gonna to be a fun watch. And as expected from KyoAni animation looks top notch.
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Old 2011-02-18, 18:04   Link #66
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Razajev View Post


A new preview for this. For the record, I am still looking forward to this. One of the higher level interest spring series for me. Mio, Yuuko, and Nano are the main ones that I'm focused on.
@ 30 sec and 1min35sec.

BECKY!

Show has now reached awesome before it has even aired
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Old 2011-02-18, 18:37   Link #67
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That's some very good animation in a lot of places in that trailer. Interesting to look at visually, although I wonder if I'll be able to enjoy it. Gave the manga a try not so long ago and didn't find it particularly funny. Then again, K-ON! wasn't stellar in manga format either, but I could enjoy the anime a fair bit due to all the care Kyoto put into it. Lots and lots of funny little animation details you could pick up while watching, which is always the major catch in KyoAni shows for me (as of late, at least, seeing as I'm not too big on the 4koma comedies thing).

Now, on the other hand, what is the music on that trailer, haha. It's got a very weird effect in that I was almost closing my eyelids by the end of it, haha.
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Old 2011-02-18, 19:43   Link #68
Kaisos Erranon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Razajev View Post
A new preview for this. For the record, I am still looking forward to this. One of the higher level interest spring series for me. Mio, Yuuko, and Nano are the main ones that I'm focused on.
The thing I like the most is that the visual style is nothing like K-On whatsoever.
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Old 2011-02-18, 19:56   Link #69
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Hmm ... must admit that this one has me curious. The preview clips looked interesting.... Now I don't mind K-On myself, but I also liked Seitokai no Ichizon....

Maybe I will look at some of the manga chapters....
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Old 2011-02-18, 20:07   Link #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brocko View Post
@ 30 sec and 1min35sec.

BECKY!

Show has now reached awesome before it has even aired
Ah, glad I wasn't the only one thinking BECKY! then...
Also, am I the only one thinking the cat looks a bit like Jiji from "Kiki's Delivery Service"?

The trailer makes me think I should give this show a try.
After that, it all depends on what the actual episodes are like.
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Old 2011-02-18, 22:07   Link #71
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I did a little test and ran this trailer the first time with the sound intact and it faired surprisingly well, coming off as whimsical. The second time I watched it without the trailer music and it came across as a show targeted towards very young mostly female children. The characters all pretty much look like stock moe archtypes (you've got the glasses girl, the hyper girl, the girl that makes a face like XD etc). Even though I know it's from totally separate and unrelated source material I can't help but be given the impression that Lucky Star and K-On were thrown into a blender and this this was the result. Could anyone have expected anything else? I'll let others be the judge of that.

Art style looks pretty unimpressive though. I don't know what other people judge to be top quality animation, but this has the look of something that was made on a tight budget by my standards.

One thing I will say though is that a girl with a key on her back is definitely a type of moe that I have never seen before. Wind-up girl moe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
The thing I like the most is that the visual style is nothing like K-On whatsoever.
You know, people said that the characters in K-On looked blobby to which I pretty much agree, but I'm going to actually say that the character design for this show makes the characters from K-On look proportional to regular humans by comparison. Every character I saw in that trailer has this weird combination of a stocky build and a head that resembles the shape of a potato chip. I kind of had to throw that out there.
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Old 2011-02-19, 00:15   Link #72
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
Even though I know it's from totally separate and unrelated source material I can't help but be given the impression that Lucky Star and K-On were thrown into a blender and this this was the result.
Funny, my struggle at the moment is to take the show on its own merits and not see it as Azumanga Daioh meets Ichigo Mashimaro. That's based solely on the trailers and having seen the manga covers in bookstores (they are quirky enough to catch the eye, I'll grant them that), so in fairness I really should read the manga before jumping to conclusions.

Quote:
One thing I will say though is that a girl with a key on her back is definitely a type of moe that I have never seen before. Wind-up girl moe?
Well, the 2007-vintage Simoun PS2 game came with a bonus CD-ROM that includes animated "mascots" to wander aimlessly across your desktop:

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Old 2011-02-19, 06:22   Link #73
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Quote:
Art style looks pretty unimpressive though. I don't know what other people judge to be top quality animation, but this has the look of something that was made on a tight budget by my standards.
Art style has nothing to do with actual animation, though. If people mention animation, do assume they're talking about... well, animation itself. That trailer had quite a few scenes that looked interesting, with very well handled movements. One example would be the girl spinning into the air and hitting the lockers around 0:50. There were also quite a few instances where background characters would be animated with some care, instead of simply standing there and doing nothing, or having next to no animation. Like in that classroom scene. You had a girl flipping the pages and moving around, winking, the person below was also talking to someone before, while the other guy is passing by and actually notices on girl with brown hair. Then the other one comes into the scene and passes by the guy and also takes the time to look at somewhere and even says something, then proceeds with her life. Is there any reason to have so much going into the background at the same time when all you want to show is the main chick making a fuss with the other one? Probably not, but it's the sort of animation detail which Kyoto Animation shows are full of. And this isn't really "cheap" to make, if you're actually animating them properly, making it possible to figure out more than a simple bystander doing nothing or moving their mouths.

Other than that, though, proceed!
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Old 2011-02-19, 09:39   Link #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue-kun View Post
Art style has nothing to do with actual animation, though. If people mention animation, do assume they're talking about... well, animation itself. That trailer had quite a few scenes that looked quite interesting, with very well handled movements. One example would be the girl spinning into the air and hitting the lockers around 0:50. There were also quite a few instances where background characters would be animated with some care, instead of simply standing there and doing nothing, or having next to no animation. Like in that classroom scene. You had a girl flipping the pages and moving around, winking, the person below was also talking to someone before, while the other guy is passing by and actually notices on girl with brown hair. Then the other one comes into the scene and passes by the guy and also takes the time to look at somewhere and even says something, then proceeds with her life. Is there any reason to have so much going into the background at the same time when all you want to show is the main chick making a fuss with the other one? Probably not, but it's the sort of animation detail which Kyoto Animation shows are full of. And this isn't really "cheap" to make, if you're actually animating them properly, making it possible to figure out more than a simple bystander doing nothing or moving their mouths.
Spot on analysis. Kyoani productions may be alot of different things to alot of different people, but one thing that they are not is cheap. And judging from this PV, Nichijou is no exception.

The whole trailer was filled with lots of great background (character) animation and superb character acting. As is typical with Kyoani works there were also tons of inbetweens and fantastic attential to detail, particularly in regards to facial expressions. I didn't think they did anything too interesting as far as layouts go, but there was some interesting photography work.

Out of the entire PV though, one cut really stood out to me. That cut being the balancing game played by the two girls in the train from 00:54 to 01:01. I counted no less than five layers in that cut dedicated to the backgrounds alone. And they needed all those layers in order to create the incredibly well done parallax scroll effect. And of course there were the two layers dedicated to the characters which were nearly as impressive as the backgrounds. Great expressions on both, fantastic timing on the drawings and just overall good movement.

Now why would Kyoani spend so much time and money on the backgrounds in a cut in which the background isn't even the focus of the shot? Why did they decide to invest so much effort creating the parallax scroll effect when they could have done a single layer background so much more easily. In fact, they could have simply have had the train windowless and eliminated the issue of scenery altogether. That most certainly seems like the "cheap" thing to do.

But they didn't go for the cheap and easy option and instead challenged themselves. That ambition and drive towards animation is present in all their works and is why Kyoani is highly regarded for the quality of their animation
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Old 2011-02-19, 14:31   Link #75
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taking bets on how KyoAni will try to go "PPD meets Azumanga" and fail horribly.
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Old 2011-02-19, 14:52   Link #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue-kun View Post
Art style has nothing to do with actual animation, though. If people mention animation, do assume they're talking about... well, animation itself. That trailer had quite a few scenes that looked interesting, with very well handled movements. One example would be the girl spinning into the air and hitting the lockers around 0:50. There were also quite a few instances where background characters would be animated with some care, instead of simply standing there and doing nothing, or having next to no animation. Like in that classroom scene. You had a girl flipping the pages and moving around, winking, the person below was also talking to someone before, while the other guy is passing by and actually notices on girl with brown hair. Then the other one comes into the scene and passes by the guy and also takes the time to look at somewhere and even says something, then proceeds with her life. Is there any reason to have so much going into the background at the same time when all you want to show is the main chick making a fuss with the other one? Probably not, but it's the sort of animation detail which Kyoto Animation shows are full of. And this isn't really "cheap" to make, if you're actually animating them properly, making it possible to figure out more than a simple bystander doing nothing or moving their mouths.

Other than that, though, proceed!
Kyoto Animation does not have a monopoly on detail in the anime industry.

There's a few sequences that aren't just static images and where's there's some complex motion, I don't really see that as special so much as.....normal. Though sometimes you wouldn't know it seeing how phoned in a lot of the animation for school based shows can be.
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Old 2011-02-19, 15:37   Link #77
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Kyoto Animation does not have a monopoly on detail in the anime industry.
I'm sorry but where did I ever imply they held a monopoly? You simply said it looked like it was running in a tight "budget" (which to be quite honest isn't even all that relevant for good animation, the staff/key animators working on it are much much more important), and I commented that there's nothing cheap in that trailer, and that it has quite a few of good looking scenes.

Quote:
There's a few sequences that aren't just static images and where's there's some complex motion, I don't really see that as special so much as.....normal. Though sometimes you wouldn't know it seeing how phoned in a lot of the animation for school based shows can be.
I bolded the two relevant parts here. You're admitting yourself that it has "some" (it's really most of the trailer, but I digress) complex motion, so, well, are you by any chance acknowledging it has good animation? Because it sure seems so!

As for the last part, if you don't see that as "special", there's nothing I can do. I can safely say that shows which are able to have animation as good as what's shown in that Nichijou trailer aren't the norm in the industry -- but the exception, as unfortunate as that might be. And even if they were, in my world, at least, not being the "best" doesn't make it "bad". The fact there exists shows with better animation does not make Nichijou look any worse.

And while we're at it, before you try to tag me (and anyone else who might just enjoy animation and is interested in the subject) with the "blind Kyoto Animation fanboy sticker", which, from what I gather was your main intent with such an absurd comeback as that monopoly one, no, this doesn't mean the exception is limited to Kyoto Animation. The only difference here is that since Kyoto usually runs a lot of in-staffers, the production quality of their series is constant, and as such they have built themselves a very well deserved reputation regarding this matter. But that doesn't mean every other studio isn't capable of good animation, especially seeing as key animators as a whole work as freelancers. So, in the end, it's just a matter of hiring talented people. J.C Staff has been doing it a lot lately with Hironori Tanaka, who's done scenes for Ookami, Merry, Toradora, among others. Or Genichirou Abe, who's usually associated to SHAFT series due to his work in Bakemonogatari, Soremachi and Pani Poni Dash!. Even Naruto Shippuuden - which I'm sure a lot of people would turn away in disgust by the simple mention of the name - has been pulling out lots and lots of episodes with fantastic animation. You'd be amazed at how many talented key animators worked on the show lately. Hiroyuki Yamashita, Norio Matsumoto, even Shingo Yamashita.

So, yeah, basically, my point is that I never even mentioned such a thing as a monopoly and I have no idea where you got that impression from. I'm simply someone who's interested in actual animation and am able to recognize that Kyoto does a fairly good job with it most of the time. And that alone is a reason that compels me to watch Nichijou, even if I'm sure that I won't be very interested in the plot or the characters.

Cheers.
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Old 2011-02-19, 16:20   Link #78
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Kyoto Animation's quality can 'never' be bad and that's one of their main 'characteristic' and even a brand value. It's mainly because hata yoko-san a lot of other staffs in Kyoani have perfectionist traits (though, I wonder if she changed some of her dictatorship position). This is kind of bad for Kyoani in someway, since budget becomes unusually high due to those. That's one of the reason producers do not particularly favour Kyoto Animation for some media-mix.

On a side-note, Ishihara Tatsuya is known for his gentle personality and prioritisation over teamwork. Thus, I wonder how much Ishidate Taichi and Nishiya Futoshi will influence this work. I consider Nichijou as one of the most difficult original source to animate (exception: for SHAFT it is easy as gum.), so... could Kyoani make this into another success?
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Or Genichirou Abe, who's usually associated to SHAFT series due to his work in Bakemonogatari, Soremachi and Pani Poni Dash!. Even Naruto Shippuuden - which I'm sure a lot of people would turn away in disgust by the simple mention of the name - has been pulling out lots and lots of episodes with fantastic animation. You'd be amazed at how many talented key animators worked on the show lately. Hiroyuki Yamashita, Norio Matsumoto, even Shingo Yamashita.
Since Shaft is recruiting even more animators recently, there animation will get better and better, but I hope they never throw away Shinbo's direction style. That's pretty much the single most important thing that makes their products unique and valued.
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Old 2011-02-19, 16:32   Link #79
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When Kyoani animate a new anime, they select the unexperienced seiyuus to voice the characters ?
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Old 2011-02-19, 17:06   Link #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue-kun View Post
I'm sorry but where did I ever imply they held a monopoly? You simply said it looked like it was running in a tight "budget" (which to be quite honest isn't even all that relevant for good animation, the staff/key animators working on it are much much more important), and I commented that there's nothing cheap in that trailer, and that it has quite a few of good looking scenes.
That's the impression I get from a lot of talk that goes on about this studio. That they exist in some sort of black hole within the industry where everything that everyone else is doing to push the medium forward doesn't exist and that everything Kyoani does is somehow a pioneering effort.

There's a lot of mythology surrounding this company so I felt it was important to get that out there early on. Call it being pre-emptive.

Quote:
I bolded the two relevant parts here. You're admitting yourself that it has "some" (it's really most of the trailer, but I digress) complex motion, so, well, are you by any chance acknowledging it has good animation? Because it sure seems so!
I think what I was saying that there is one part of it that looks about par for what I'd expect out of TV animation in the 2010's. The rest looks like static shots. Possibly recreations from the 4Koma?

Quote:
As for the last part, if you don't see that as "special", there's nothing I can do. I can safely say that shows which are able to have animation as good as what's shown in that Nichijou trailer aren't the norm in the industry, but the exception, as unfortunate as that might be. And even if they were, in my world, at least, not being the "best" doesn't make it "bad". The fact there exists shows with better animation does not make Nichijou look any worse.
I don't know how much experience you have in watching anime outside of certain genre's but from all that I've seen from anime ranging over the span of 5 decades I would say that the vast majority of anime look far better than what I saw in that trailer. I don't think anime would be the popular medium worldwide that it is today if most shows looked inferior to that trailer. That's a scary thought actually.

Quote:
And while we're at it, before you try to tag me (and anyone else who might just enjoy animation and is interested in the subject) with the "blind Kyoto Animation fanboy sticker", which, from what I gather was your main intent with such an absurd comeback as that monopoly one, no, this doesn't mean the exception is limited to Kyoto Animation. The only difference here is that since Kyoto usually runs a lot of in-staffers, the production quality of their series is constant, and as such they have built themselves a very well deserved reputation regarding this matter. But that doesn't mean every other studio isn't capable of good animation, especially seeing as key animators as a whole work as freelancers. So, in the end, it's just a matter of hiring talented people. J.C Staff has been doing it a lot lately with Hironori Tanaka, who's done scenes for Ookami, Merry, Toradora, among others. Or Genichirou Abe, who's usually associated to SHAFT series due to his work in Bakemonogatari, Soremachi and Pani Poni Dash!. Even Naruto Shippuuden - which I'm sure a lot of people would turn away in disgust by the simple mention of the name - has been pulling out lots and lots of episodes with fantastic animation. You'd be amazed at how many talented key animators worked on the show lately. Hiroyuki Yamashita, Norio Matsumoto, even Shingo Yamashita.
Okay judging by the examples you chose to use we have both seen VERY different sets of anime in our time. That actually explains a lot.

Quote:
So, yeah, basically, my point is that I never even mentioned such a thing as a monopoly and I have no idea where you got that impression from. I'm simply someone who's interested in actual animation and am able to recognize that Kyoto does a fairly good job with it most of the time. And that alone is a reason that compels me to watch Nichijou, even if I'm sure that I won't be very interested in the plot or the characters.

Cheers.
If you take into account a very small fraction of what the industry puts out (i.e light novel/visual novel adaptations) Kyoto Animation's....animation fairs very well. I can agree with this much. However take what they've put out in the grand scope of things and they really don't fare that well at all quite frankly. Again just going by my experiences.

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Kyoto Animation's quality can 'never' be bad and that's one of their main 'characteristic' and even a brand value.
And there it is......
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