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Old 2011-02-07, 17:59   Link #241
Kallen4life
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well then according to the Gorousei BB should've destroyed Akainu - he had his entire crew with him too


I'm reasonably sure admirals could be on par or compared to the yonkou (and obviously Marco and other WB commanders), so BB has to worry about them .. not about Garp/Sengoku though - not anymore, they retired
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Old 2011-02-07, 18:35   Link #242
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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well then according to the Gorousei BB should've destroyed Akainu - he had his entire crew with him too
BB may well have been able to put Akainu in his place, but facing off against him would have done more harm than good. For starters, his crewmates would have suffered severe casualties at the very least. Then there's the fact that the marines backed out on their exchange deal; they had no intention of giving BB a battleship. Essentially, the risks outweighed the benefits; BB had nothing to gain by fighting Akainu. Therefore, it was smart of him to run away.

I don't believe BB after acquiring the Quake ability became top tier; there were still areas of improvement he needed to work on. But after the 2 year time-skip, there's no doubt in my mind he stands at the top alongside the other elites.
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Old 2011-02-07, 19:08   Link #243
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well, in my mind elites = Yonkou, admirals, BB, Garp, Sengoku (though the latter two won't be playing actively anymore .. probably .. and they're possibly the oldest of the bunch, Kaidou & Big Mom didn't look as old as WB) .. can't say about Kong or WB commanders .. absolutely no info on Dragon
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Old 2011-02-07, 19:17   Link #244
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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^ We have the same perceptions regarding elites. I'd also include Rayleigh, Mihawk, Doflamingo, Kuma, Jimbei (submerged underwater), Marco, Jozu, and Vista. These characters have all displayed truly impressive feats.
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Old 2011-02-08, 06:10   Link #245
MihawkXGP
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BB only had the Darkness fruit when he went up against WB. Against Garp and Sengoku, he had both Darkness and Quake. Furthermore, the legendary duo didn't appear to gain any advantage over BB. As a matter of fact, we even see Sengoku's body covered in bandages at the end of the war (as I already mentioned).

Keep in mind that the Gorosei also said that only the remaining emperors and perhaps the remnants of the WB pirates can stop him. BB became a huge threat the moment he acquired the Quake ability. Very few could oppose him.
Yes but he had only just aquired that ability. As he stated, he hadn't gotten the hang of using it just yet. At that point, even with those 2 powers, there is simply no way the BB crew coulda escaped Marine HQ, if the Marines had focused all their military strength on them. If the likes of Mihawk, Kuma, DoFlamingo, Hancock & the rest really got serious - they'd be wiped out easily.
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Old 2011-02-08, 14:54   Link #246
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Yes but he had only just aquired that ability. As he stated, he hadn't gotten the hang of using it just yet. At that point, even with those 2 powers, there is simply no way the BB crew coulda escaped Marine HQ, if the Marines had focused all their military strength on them. If the likes of Mihawk, Kuma, DoFlamingo, Hancock & the rest really got serious - they'd be wiped out easily.
Teach spent decades on WB's ship, thus giving him much knowledge on how the Quake ability works. He just needed more time to practice, but even so he already had a good handle on it.

The marines wouldn't divert all their attention to the BB pirates because they also wanted to get rid of the WB and NW pirates as well.
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Old 2011-02-08, 21:19   Link #247
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Teach spent decades on WB's ship, thus giving him much knowledge on how the Quake ability works. He just needed more time to practice, but even so he already had a good handle on it.

The marines wouldn't divert all their attention to the BB pirates because they also wanted to get rid of the WB and NW pirates as well.

Not to mention the now fleeing Monkey D. Luffy~
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Old 2011-02-21, 11:51   Link #248
-Suigetsu-
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Akainu would have solo'd Blackbeard and his entire crew.
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Old 2011-02-21, 15:35   Link #249
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by -Suigetsu- View Post
Akainu would have solo'd Blackbeard and his entire crew.
And to counter this statement, Blackbeard was taking on Sengoku and Garp at the same time during the war at Marineford. By the time it was over, he was still in good fighting condition. Furthermore, the gorosei stated that only the remaining emperors and perhaps the remnants of the WB pirates could stop BB. Taking all of this into account, it's very unlikely you statement is true.
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Old 2011-02-21, 15:51   Link #250
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And to counter this statement, Blackbeard was taking on Sengoku and Garp at the same time during the war at Marineford. By the time it was over, he was still in good fighting condition. Furthermore, the gorosei stated that only the remaining emperors and perhaps the remnants of the WB pirates could stop BB. Taking all of this into account, it's very unlikely you statement is true.
First of all, the perhaps was a mistranslation, this is what they said:

"If anybody can put a stop to his advance, it would have to be the Yonkou themselves... // ...or else Marco the Phoenix and the other remnants of the Whitebeard Pirates."

So according to the Gorosei, Marco > Blackbeard. Which really isn't surprising in the slightest because if Blackbeard is too scared to fight Akainu even with the support of his entire crew, he's obviously going to be weaker than Marco on his own.

Unless you think that Akainu > Sengoku and Garp, then it's clear that those two were holding back for whatever reason. I mean it's not a coincidence that Oda had that battle off-panel.
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Old 2011-02-21, 15:56   Link #251
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by -Suigetsu- View Post
First of all, the perhaps was a mistranslation, this is what they said:

"If anybody can put a stop to his advance, it would have to be the Yonkou themselves... // ...or else Marco the Phoenix and the other remnants of the Whitebeard Pirates."

So according to the Gorosei, Marco > Blackbeard. Which really isn't surprising in the slightest because if Blackbeard is too scared to fight Akainu even with the support of his entire crew, he's obviously going to be weaker than Marco on his own.

Unless you think that Akainu > Sengoku and Garp, then it's clear that those two were holding back for whatever reason. I mean it's not a coincidence that Oda had that battle off-panel.
No it wasn't a mistranslation. And stop doesn't necessarily mean defeat. It could be that they're the ones who can stop BB from getting out of control. Keep him in check, if you will.

The point is, very few could oppose BB by that point. He had become incredibly powerful.

Why would Sengoku and Garp hold back? There was no reason why they should. BB was a real threat with his darkness and quake abilities.
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Old 2011-02-21, 16:03   Link #252
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No it wasn't a mistranslation.
Cnet is considered the most reliable and says this:

"If anybody can put a stop to his advance, it would have to be the Yonkou themselves... // ...or else Marco the Phoenix and the other remnants of the Whitebeard Pirates."

http://mangahelpers.com/t/cnet128/releases/23870


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And stop doesn't necessarily mean defeat. It could be that they're the ones who can stop BB from getting out of control. Keep him in check, if you will.
It's pretty clear what they are saying.

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The point is, very few could oppose BB by that point. He had become incredibly powerful.
Any top tier should be able to beat him in a 1v1, at least before the time skip.


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Why would Sengoku and Garp hold back? There was no reason why they should. BB was a real threat with his darkness and quake abilities.
Maybe the AoE affects their allies, destroys the land? Who knows?

The point is, if Blackbeard was strong enough to take these two on at the same time, he wouldn't have runa way scared from Akainu.

Unless you think that Akainu > Sengoku and Garp.
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Old 2011-02-21, 16:12   Link #253
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by -Suigetsu- View Post
Cnet is considered the most reliable and says this:

"If anybody can put a stop to his advance, it would have to be the Yonkou themselves... // ...or else Marco the Phoenix and the other remnants of the Whitebeard Pirates."
And this translation is no different than what I said.

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It's pretty clear what they are saying.
Yes it is. Just like how Shanks intercepted Kaido from trying to stop WB. That in no way implies Shanks>Kaido.

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Any top tier should be able to beat him in a 1v1, at least before the time skip.
That's your opinion.

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Maybe the AoE affects their allies, destroys the land? Who knows?

The point is, if Blackbeard was strong enough to take these two on at the same time, he wouldn't have runa way scared from Akainu.

Unless you think that Akainu > Sengoku and Garp.
I've already explained that BB fleeing from Akainu doesn't imply he's weaker. Read post #242.
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Old 2011-02-21, 16:24   Link #254
-Suigetsu-
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And this translation is no different than what I said.
You said "perhaps" implying that there is a chance that Blackbeard could actually beat Marco.



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Yes it is. Just like how Shanks intercepted Kaido from trying to stop WB. That in no way implies Shanks>Kaido.
We have no idea what even happened there. For all we know, Shanks could have offered Kaidou something to make him turn back. After all, this is the same guy who doesn't care if some no name even spit on him.

Stopping someone like Blackbeard who's goal is to become Pirate King would be defeating him. It's clear that's what the Gorosei were saying.



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That's your opinion.
You disagree?

Blackbeard getting completely fodderized by a half dead Whitebeard was honestly so pathetic. I don't see that happening to any top tier.

Sure, Blackbeard now has the Gura Gura, but that only increases his offensive power, it doesn't change the rest of his poor stats. Though I'm confident Blackbeard is a top tier now after the time skip.

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I've already explained that BB fleeing from Akainu doesn't imply he's weaker. Read post #242.

BB may well have been able to put Akainu in his place, but facing off against him would have done more harm than good. For starters, his crewmates would have suffered severe casualties at the very least.
And that same risk didn't apply to fighting both Sengoku and Garp? If Blackbeard was strong enough to take on the two of them, he would have no problem manhandling Akainu.


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Then there's the fact that the marines backed out on their exchange deal; they had no intention of giving BB a battleship. Essentially, the risks outweighed the benefits; BB had nothing to gain by fighting Akainu. Therefore, it was smart of him to run away.
There is absolutely no risk if Blackbeard was as strong as Garp and Sengoku combined. None at all.

Defeating Akainu would have gotten him the battleship, and defeating Akainu deals with a threat that's probably been chasing after them like a madman for the last 2 years.
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Old 2011-02-21, 16:42   Link #255
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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You said "perhaps" implying that there is a chance that Blackbeard could actually beat Marco.
Read my posts, please. I said "the gorosei said that only the remaining emperors and perhaps the remnants of the WB pirates could stop BB".

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We have no idea what even happened there. For all we know, Shanks could have offered Kaidou something to make him turn back. After all, this is the same guy who doesn't care if some no name even spit on him.
Indeed, which proves my point that statements are sometimes interpreted in different ways. You have to examine the context.

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Stopping someone like Blackbeard who's goal is to become Pirate King would be defeating him. It's clear that's what the Gorosei were saying.
Quite possibly. Note that only the emperors were stated with certainty; the WB pirates had a "maybe" in there. With their head, Ace, and Thatch, gone, they've been weakened.

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Blackbeard getting completely fodderized by a half dead Whitebeard was honestly so pathetic. I don't see that happening to any top tier.
BB quickly shrugged off the pain from an enraged WB's assault. The very same WB who temporarily put Akainu down. His resilience is outstanding.

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Sure, Blackbeard now has the Gura Gura, but that only increases his offensive power, it doesn't change the rest of his poor stats. Though I'm confident Blackbeard is a top tier now after the time skip.
That's why he has a ridiculous tolerance for damage. It compensates for his lackluster reactions.

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And that same risk didn't apply to fighting both Sengoku and Garp? If Blackbeard was strong enough to take on the two of them, he would have no problem manhandling Akainu.
After just acquiring the quake ability, BB was "high" on power. He declared himself as the strongest man in the world, so naturally his arrogance/overconfidence got the better of him. After the war, he had time to cool down and be more prudent from then on.

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There is absolutely no risk if Blackbeard was as strong as Garp and Sengoku combined. None at all.
I didn't say he was as strong as the duo.

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Defeating Akainu would have gotten him the battleship, and defeating Akainu deals with a threat that's probably been chasing after them like a madman for the last 2 years.
He wouldn't have gotten the battleship no matter what. Akainu would see to that personally by destroying it himself if necessary.
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Old 2011-02-21, 17:04   Link #256
John D.
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Why would Sengoku and Garp hold back? There was no reason why they should. BB was a real threat with his darkness and quake abilities.
While I don't think Sengoku and Garp intentionally went easy on Teach, I think the circumstances prevented them from fighting at full potential. Specifically, their foremost priority was to protect Marinford from Blackbeard's wild quakes (at least, that was Sengoku's first concern), and thus, I'd infer that they fought a defensive battle to attempt to ward of Blackbeard's quakes.

At least, that is how I interpreted the scene.

That being said, I don't agree that Akainu would've taken the down the Blackbeard Pirates if the latter hadn't turned tails. I think the combined might of the Blackbeard Pirates would've been victorious, but I also think that they would've incurred heavy casualties (which might have included Teach himself) and that was not a price Teach was willing to pay for a battleship (and there was always the risk of Akainu, after realizing he was going to loose, burning the ship in obstinate rage...).

I also think that Blackbeard wanted time to prepare both himself and his newly acquired crew (i.e. time to grow stronger) before taking on adversaries such as Akainu. Specifically, he didn't flee because he was scared of Akainu, he fled because the time wasn't right.
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Old 2011-02-21, 17:15   Link #257
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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While I don't think Sengoku and Garp intentionally went easy on Teach, I think the circumstances prevented them from fighting at full potential. Specifically, their foremost priority was to protect Marinford from Blackbeard's wild quakes (at least, that was Sengoku's first concern), and thus, I'd infer that they fought a defensive battle to attempt to ward of Blackbeard's quakes.

At least, that is how I interpreted the scene.
I'll profess right now that BB would have lost to Sengoku and Garp. Fighting one top tier is tough as it is, but two is overkill. That being said, it's very likely BB's crewmates intervened to even the odds out.
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Old 2011-02-21, 17:44   Link #258
Kallen4life
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there's no way for any one inidividual to triumph over the entire BB + crew .. i wouldn't give that feat even to a prime WB or Roger or prime Garp or Kong or anyone .. that crew is most likely a yonkou crew with a potential Yonkou at the helm
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Old 2011-02-21, 19:23   Link #259
-Suigetsu-
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Read my posts, please. I said "the gorosei said that only the remaining emperors and perhaps the remnants of the WB pirates could stop BB".
I read your post the first time correctly. I showed you that perhaps isn't in the correct translation. The Gorosei think that Marco can beat Blackbeard.



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Indeed, which proves my point that statements are sometimes interpreted in different ways. You have to examine the context.

And the context of this situation was how much of a threat Blackbeard is capable of becoming and who's strong enough to defeat him.



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Quite possibly. Note that only the emperors were stated with certainty; the WB pirates had a "maybe" in there. With their head, Ace, and Thatch, gone, they've been weakened.
Please show me where it says a maybe on this page.

http://mangahelpers.com/t/cnet128/releases/23870


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BB quickly shrugged off the pain from an enraged WB's assault. The very same WB who temporarily put Akainu down. His resilience is outstanding.
The same Whitebeard? One had his face intact while the other didn't. One got hit with an island splitting punch, the other didn't.



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That's why he has a ridiculous tolerance for damage. It compensates for his lackluster reactions.
While his endurance is insane, if your opponent is completely out of your league, then it really won't help.



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After just acquiring the quake ability, BB was "high" on power. He declared himself as the strongest man in the world, so naturally his arrogance/overconfidence got the better of him. After the war, he had time to cool down and be more prudent from then on.

I definitely agree with this, but that still doesn't change the fact that Blackbeard wasn't immediately owned by Garp and Sengoku. You said it yourself, his condition was fine.
I didn't say he was as strong as the duo.



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He wouldn't have gotten the battleship no matter what. Akainu would see to that personally by destroying it himself if necessary.

Good point. But he still would have dealt a major blow to the Marines by taking out an Admiral.

I really don't think it's a coincidence that Oda had Blackbeard fight with Sengoku and Garp off-panel.
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Old 2011-02-23, 02:27   Link #260
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People tend to forget that it was Blackbeard HIMSELF who put those scars on Shanks BEFORE he had his Devil Fruit, and BEFORE Shanks lost his arm. Now, put said person against somebody like Akainu with both the Quake AND the Gravity power?


I think it'd be a good fight, but again, Blackbeard would come out in the end. And who cares if Blackbeard was getting trounced by a half dead Whitebeard? If I recall correctly, that same Whitebeard proceeded to beat Akainu with half of his head ripped off.
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