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Old 2011-02-21, 18:17   Link #8041
giorno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bizzi View Post
She saw bad things about life and did many things no "normal" girl would've done. I've been watching ep 12 again, it's clear that she's conscious about dark things happening all around.
yes, just like me, or you, are conscious of the dark things that happen in the world. We know this stuff happens. But we have absolutely no idea about exactly how bad it is and what it means to be involved in it until we do get involved

Mikoto has absolutely no idea about how deep the darkness of AC really is, until she finds out about the sisters

Quote:
There's liking a character and wanting that character to be shown more, but this is plain absurd. It's not like Mikoto is pulling a Himegami and more or less lost her purpose in the story, hell it's the opposite. Kamachi is finding ways to include her in the story - and her relation to the story is pretty much in pursuit of Touma... Like it or not, but that's pretty her role in the story and it's not much of a role really... Oh well maybe NT will change that?
he's not disputing this though

His point is that in the few instances in which Mikoto could have been involved in the main fight of the arc, the author used a convenient plot hole to keep her away from it

Now, realistically, the only novels in which Mikoto could have taken part in the main battle(s) are novel 3, 6, 8, 13 and 16(so, yeah, not nearly as many as he claims). In two of them(3 and 13) she DID take part in it in a way, so there was no plot hole keeping her away. In novel 8 she never got a chance to fight Awaki at all in the end as accelerator took her out first, and did play her role throughout the novel. Meaning the only real instances in which Mikoto was kept away from the battle are novels 6 and 16, which are in fact the two novels in which he's claiming Kamachi used plot holes to keep her out of it

Last edited by giorno; 2011-02-21 at 18:28.
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Old 2011-02-21, 18:19   Link #8042
SuzushinaYuriko
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Quote:
She wanted to save 10000 people.
And she became mentally unstable to the point of trying to suicide. I don't see what's cliche about that. That's exactly what happened.

You can definitely argue that she's encountered the dark side a few times with the experiments in Railgun and the SISTERs project, yes.

But the fact remains that overall she's still just a normal girl with powers. If she was truly immersed in the dark side of Academy City, she would have turned into someone like Awaki. Mikoto has shown that she does not have fighting experience and endurability, and I think you should stop overestimating the abilities of a middle school girl.
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Old 2011-02-21, 18:48   Link #8043
bizzi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yukirosuzuka View Post
And she became mentally unstable to the point of trying to suicide. I don't see what's cliche about that. That's exactly what happened.
She wanted to kill herself in order to stop the experiment and save 10000 people. That's not a dummy suicide "I wanna kill myseeeelf" ^^'
Besides, what was said before was a bit like "when Mikoto sees blood she goes batshit crazy and suicides" or something like that. This was the prejudice I was talking about

Quote:
Originally Posted by yukirosuzuka View Post
I think you should stop overestimating the abilities of a middle school girl.
Never did thaaaaaat >_< It's got nothing to do with abilities. My problem is that too many people here see Mikoto as a little kitten that knows nothing about the world x)
There's margin between 0 and 100
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Old 2011-02-21, 18:53   Link #8044
Miraluka
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There a difference betweem knowing and being part of said "world" and this series goes around te "darkness world".


Quote:
Originally Posted by bizzi View Post
She wanted to kill herself in order to stop the experiment and save 10000 people. That's not a dummy suicide "I wanna kill myseeeelf" ^^'
Besides, what was said before was a bit like "when Mikoto sees blood she goes batshit crazy and suicides" or something like that. This was the prejudice I was talking about.
And there weren't not more options?
Of course the are but her mentality is her own limit. Never took in account to ask for help and in the bridge it she said so to herself. She had the luck to get Touma's help to solve her problem.
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Old 2011-02-21, 19:13   Link #8045
giorno
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to be entirely fair to Mikoto, that was the first time she actually got involved with that, and it hit her personally, too...

you'd think by now she should be able to deal with that kind of stuff better than that(in fact, i think this is one of the main problems with the writing: most characters are far too adaptable to situations which should normally mentally overwhelm them)
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Old 2011-02-21, 20:23   Link #8046
MonkeyDude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giorno View Post
he's not disputing this though

His point is that in the few instances in which Mikoto could have been involved in the main fight of the arc, the author used a convenient plot hole to keep her away from it

Now, realistically, the only novels in which Mikoto could have taken part in the main battle(s) are novel 3, 6, 8, 13 and 16(so, yeah, not nearly as many as he claims). In two of them(3 and 13) she DID take part in it in a way, so there was no plot hole keeping her away. In novel 8 she never got a chance to fight Awaki at all in the end as accelerator took her out first, and did play her role throughout the novel. Meaning the only real instances in which Mikoto was kept away from the battle are novels 6 and 16, which are in fact the two novels in which he's claiming Kamachi used plot holes to keep her out of it
The point still stands since hey if Mikoto was included in the fights...then hey more Mikoto right? Can we stop referring it to a plot hole when in fact it is nothing more than a convenient plot device? Meh either way this "discussion" is leading nowhere.
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Old 2011-02-21, 22:08   Link #8047
Shinji103
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Spoiler for Wilfriback:


Quote:
Originally Posted by yukirosuzuka View Post
Didn't this argument die out yesterday? Why is it starting back up again?
Says who?

I enjoy a good debate every now and then. (provided neither side gets to insults )

Spoiler for giorno:


Quote:
Originally Posted by yukirosuzuka View Post
Why would Mikoto be fighting espers and Level 0's in the back alleys of Academy City? That doesn't make sense at all. It has been said that Mikoto is simply a normal girl with powers, and Railgun clearly shows that.

Stop trying to give Mikoto a dark past that she doesn't have.
I wouldn't say Mikoto has a dark past, but given that Touma had to save a bunch of level 0s from Mikoto in the first episode, I'd say she has a habit of getting into fights. Moreover, we know she gets into fights; for one thing, she's always challenging Touma to a duel.


Quote:
Originally Posted by I_am_Kami View Post
Yah but it's just horny guys. No actual big deal. Touma and accelerator have been through more shit. I read that as a child he was almost killed because someone blamed him for his misfortune. Referenced as "the plague". I don't even need to get in details with accelerator.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Touma past:
None of which at all gives Touma fighting skills. How does being hit by thrown rocks make you a harder puncher? This stuff might make him more calm in the face of danger (usually it has the opposite effect though), but it doesn't give him better skills in combat or fighting.

Quote:
Just like Accelerator? Just defeating the enemies with their power doesn't gives experience with figthing skills.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashaman View Post
Yes, in the same way that Accelerator has been doing, except to a much lesser degree, in both time and brutality.

Mikoto is a normal girl who occasionally goes out and shocks a bunch of people when they piss her off.

Accelerator is a psycho who attacts attackers and then one hit kills them. Or worse, lets them break their arms trying to hurt him and then play with them afterwards.

Touma is the unlucky guy that somehow pisses off a bunch of delinquents and then fights them off.

Of the three, only one got any real fight experience out of it, and that's Touma.

Accel was very blatently called a weakingly who relied on his ability for everything, and so against people who could counter act it, got his ass kicked. It's only against the Hound Dogs and his time in GROUP that he develops skills.

Misaka relies on a simple shock attack for most back alley crawlers, and they're down.

Compared to 1,2,4,7 and IB, who go around fighting all the time, her experience doesn't compare.
As I said to giorno, how do you know Mikoto doesn't have fighting skills? Also as I pointed out to giorno, Mikoto proved she can use tactics and creative thinking to a high degree in the Railgun manga against Frenda and Mugino. When she was already weakened before she even fought them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
She has friends, money, position, fame, good parents, almost everything except Touma and thats her own fault.

She is normal on Academy City standarts.

She never saw people badly injured or killed and the first time she sees one, goes insane and mentally unstable and at the end goes suicide. There is no need to check the novels on that part, she just tasted a bit of darkness and that was the inmediate aftermath.
Maybe thats why Mugino went all batshit crazy saying Mikoto doesn't knows a bit from the darkness.
All of this talk about Mikoto being "normal" is mere assumption. How does anybody here know what kind of battles she's fought? Looking at how she handled Frenda and Mugino, I'd say she's got serious skills.
But let's consider that she doesn't have skills (whch she dooes, but let's assume she doesn't); Mugino and Frenda of ITEM do. So a complete novice used skills, tactics, and creative thinking to own two experienced fighters, at least one of them a skilled tactician, and the other a powerful Esper? That's even better, because Mikoto would only be even more capable with more experience, then.
Have Stiyl watch a close friend get brutally murdered like Mikoto saw one of her MISAKA clones get brutally murdered against Accelerator. If you honestly expect Stiyl to keep his calm, then we're not watching/reading the same title. Just because Mikoto would go more "crazy" than Stiyl probably would doesn't make her less competent for having a harsher reaction; Kenshin Himura, Vash the Stampede, and fighters with (initially) less experience like Ichigo Kurosaki go BALISTIC when they see innocents get killed or even just hurt a little. It doesn't hinder them at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by giorno View Post
Now, realistically, the only novels in which Mikoto could have taken part in the main battle(s) are novel 3, 6, 8, 13 and 16(so, yeah, not nearly as many as he claims).
I'm not sure why you think I'm saying Mikoto can get in on the action in scenes other than those...........

Quote:
In two of them(3 and 13) she DID take part in it in a way, so there was no plot hole keeping her away.
"In a way."

Quote:
In novel 8 she never got a chance to fight Awaki at all in the end as accelerator took her out first, and did play her role throughout the novel.
Note I never sid anything about this scene. But now I'll say she could have gotten more action here, yes, but I'm not going to dispute anything here since she at least actually did something as opposed to being conveniently kept out of the main fight.

Quote:
Meaning the only real instances in which Mikoto was kept away from the battle are novels 6 and 16, which are in fact the two novels in which he's claiming Kamachi used plot holes to keep her out of it
Exactly. A bit less severe in volume 16 than in 6, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeyDude View Post
The point still stands since hey if Mikoto was included in the fights...then hey more Mikoto right? Can we stop referring it to a plot hole when in fact it is nothing more than a convenient plot device? Meh either way this "discussion" is leading nowhere.
For the record:

"A plot device is an object or character in a story whose sole purpose is to advance the plot of the story, or alternatively to overcome some difficulty in the plot."

Doesn't quite apply; Mikoto's absence or inclusion wouldn't affect the overall plot in either direction. (her inclusion would just make more sense; character consistency and lack of plot holes)





But I just like debating something once in a while, not starting an actual argument. So if you guys are getting tired of this or anything, I can shut up and agree to disagree. At the time, I originally just came online to post new info on Jinki: Extend Relation and Karin in the manga section from the two issues of Dragon Age I got in.
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Old 2011-02-21, 22:57   Link #8048
Flere821
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Originally Posted by bizzi View Post
Just like Mikoto.



Your credibility is GONE. Here you go, take my rope.
Sorry, just had to post my view on this, even if others might have mentioned this before:

1)For the record, Mikoto was taking down small-fries that went to hit on her, or just usual, relatively harmless punks that is mainly all talk and can't back it up with power.
Touma, on the other hand, was fighting Level 0s with weapons and guns at times just to save a person that asked for help. It's not like how he get dragged into incidents such as the SISTERs or Aureolus Izzard on a weekly basis after losing his memories, but he was involved enough to know the in's and out's of street fighting. Heck, even in Vol13 he mentioned off-hand to Accelerator over LO's phone that District 7 has a back alley where people meet up to brawl.

To borrow 'Sasha-speak', Answer 1: Touma have been in more dangerous fights compared to Mikoto, not taking the things after meeting Index into account.

2)'Mikoto grew up like a normal girl': I would say that's 100% correct. Came from a well-off family (not filthy rich like others, but still fairly well off), a good childhood, and far removed from any problems she can't handle alone to begin with. That all changed after seeing the SISTERs, but before that her childhood was a good one.


And as to others:

On the topic of Mikoto being a liability or not (or has the argument moved on? laying out the current argued points of both sides in 'Sasha-speak' would be greatly appreciated ), I'll have to mention the point that the magicians Touma works with are 'professionals' - people that sees as their duty to make amatuers like Touma not get involved as very important.

IMO, Toaruverse magicians are like Nasu-verse magus, minus the amorality when it comes to involving civilians (ie, Nasu-verse magus can involve civilians all they like, as long as the existence of magic is not revealed) ; They are willing to kill or be killed if these situations arise, and people like Touma, Kaori and the Amakusa are the exception, and NOT the rule. Stiyl have even mentioned at one point it's only after Touma got involved with the Magic Side that members of Necessarius started to get along with one another.

Now, I'll bring that back to Mikoto: Mikoto are brought up as a normal girl, albeit one with esper powers and one of the top Seven of AC. She does NOT have the same resolves as some of these magicians. I won't go on about the shounen idea that 'more willpower = greater chance of defeating your opponent', but as Mikoto hesitates about killing/wounding others she'd probably be taken down by someone who's weaker, has more experience and is willing to use those experience to win. And that's just the usual magicians like Sherry, and not 'monster-class' like Acqua.


And on the point of Mikoto not helping Touma when he went after Acqua: Mikoto at the point was too overwhlemed by the discovery of her feelings towards Touma. I believe the word is 'epiphany'? She was struggling to come to terms with her own self, her conflicting views, and to accept her own feelings; that would take time. And I'd say these things take time to sort out.
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Old 2011-02-21, 23:47   Link #8049
MonkeyDude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
For the record:

"A plot device is an object or character in a story whose sole purpose is to advance the plot of the story, or alternatively to overcome some difficulty in the plot."
I can copy/paste stuff from Wikipedia too! Though in this case I'll use other sources that define what a 'plot device' is differently.

"A plot device is a low-energy means of fulfilling the requirements of dramatic necessity, without having to develop the plot or characters much."

or

"A plot device is an object or character in the story whose purpose is purely to drive the plot or resolve situations. It could be something everybody wants to obtain, a device that must be destroyed, or an annoying teenager who must be protected at all costs."

And going by the very thing you quoted from Wikipedia, a plot device was used to prevent Mikoto from engaging in fights she may have been able to participate in. The 'difficulty' to overcome in the plot was somehow not getting Mikoto involved. Therefore a plot device was used to get her out of the way.

For v6, it was Kuroko's characterization, the squabble between Index and Mikoto, and Sphinx running away from Mikoto due to the magnetic waves she unconsciously emits. Is this convenient? Yes. Is this a plot hole? Nope because these factors were explained in the story.

For v16, it was the revelations of her newfound feelings for Touma and her respect for his opinion that it was 'his fight' to fight, and also probably due to Runes and whatnot the Amakusa and Acqua? put in place to keep civilians out of the way. Note that while Mikoto is a L5, she is still a civilian and probably doesn't have much in terms of magical resistance so those runes should easily affect her. Somebody else may be able to explain this better? Anyway is this convenient? Yes. Is this a plot hole? Nope because these were pretty well explained in the story.

Quote:
Doesn't quite apply; Mikoto's absence or inclusion wouldn't affect the overall plot in either direction. (her inclusion would just make more sense; character consistency and lack of plot holes)
Her inclusion in fights she was never meant to be a part of would have effects on the plot, detrimental or not. She pretty much doesn't know about the Magic Side and being exposed to it wouldn't have an effect? I don't even know why I have to explain this one. And her inclusion would make sense based on her characterization (or your perceived characterization of Mikoto), but that's why plot devices were used to keep her out of it.

Quote:
But I just like debating something once in a while, not starting an actual argument. So if you guys are getting tired of this or anything, I can shut up and agree to disagree. At the time, I originally just came online to post new info on Jinki: Extend Relation and Karin in the manga section from the two issues of Dragon Age I got in.
No one likes to debate with a brick wall. Actually forget debate, no one wants to discuss something with a brick wall. You are supposed to at least acknowledge valid points we are making, not just coming up with contrived responses such as "Still missing my point". Maybe you're the one missing our point hmm?
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Old 2011-02-21, 23:55   Link #8050
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flere821 View Post
Now, I'll bring that back to Mikoto: Mikoto are brought up as a normal girl, albeit one with esper powers and one of the top Seven of AC. She does NOT have the same resolves as some of these magicians. I won't go on about the shounen idea that 'more willpower = greater chance of defeating your opponent', but as Mikoto hesitates about killing/wounding others she'd probably be taken down by someone who's weaker, has more experience and is willing to use those experience to win. And that's just the usual magicians like Sherry, and not 'monster-class' like Acqua.
I disagree with this statement, Mikoto did fine against the Hound Dogs, who are the embodiment of the phrase "shoot first before anything", not every fight has to be a battle to the death and Mikoto definitely have the power to defeat them without killing them, Broken Class opponents aside.

I don't know where this hesitate from wounding/killing people mentality that people seem to automatically input into her character comes from, but she did 'causally' fight a Railgun into a squad of Hound Dog without worries. And from those punks we know that she's more than happy to lay down the hurt, so wounding isn't an issue.

I would like to see the guy would can get up from a taser to the chest.
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Old 2011-02-21, 23:57   Link #8051
Shinji103
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Most of these points actually have been brought up already, so I'll just give a brief on my responses:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flere821 View Post
1)For the record, Mikoto was taking down small-fries that went to hit on her, or just usual, relatively harmless punks that is mainly all talk and can't back it up with power.
People are only assuming that these are the only people she has fought before; in actual fact, Mikoto has the skills and capability to take on experienced groups like ITEM and win.

Quote:
2)'Mikoto grew up like a normal girl': I would say that's 100% correct. Came from a well-off family (not filthy rich like others, but still fairly well off), a good childhood, and far removed from any problems she can't handle alone to begin with. That all changed after seeing the SISTERs, but before that her childhood was a good one.
She probably did live a "rich girl" life, but that doesn't mean in any way she doesn't have combat experience. Again, we have facts like Mikoto's capability to take on the experienced members of ITEM and win.

Quote:
On the topic of Mikoto being a liability or not (or has the argument moved on? laying out the current argued points of both sides in 'Sasha-speak' would be greatly appreciated ), I'll have to mention the point that the magicians Touma works with are 'professionals' - people that sees as their duty to make amatuers like Touma not get involved as very important.
Still waiting on if the others want to just call it quits on this debate and move on, but in the meantime, in fights like against Sherryl, the only magician around was the one who wants to make a big splash and thus was not putting up barriers to keep people like Mikoto out.
For fights like with Acqua, I don't dispute at all that they'd want to keep her out, but unless a barrier was put up in advance, or Acqua was the one to put it up, then they'd have their hands full getting owned by Acqua and not really having time to keep Mikoto out of the fight.
But I'd have been perfectly satisfied if she had tried to go after him and had been stopped by a magic barrier to keep people out. Of course, unless this barrier was designed to let Touma in, or re-cast after Touma got in, he'd have to break it down with Imagine Breaker anyway to get to the fight, thus allowing Mikoto access. Still, like I said my main burn with this specific scene is that she just stood back there and watched him leave. (that turned out a bit longer than I intended )

Quote:
Now, I'll bring that back to Mikoto: Mikoto are brought up as a normal girl, albeit one with esper powers and one of the top Seven of AC. She does NOT have the same resolves as some of these magicians. I won't go on about the shounen idea that 'more willpower = greater chance of defeating your opponent', but as Mikoto hesitates about killing/wounding others she'd probably be taken down by someone who's weaker, has more experience and is willing to use those experience to win. And that's just the usual magicians like Sherry, and not 'monster-class' like Acqua.
Now this I wholeheartedlly disagree with; Mikoto has plenty of resolve. She's not some half-assed person who doesn't care, and to be perfectly honest it's an affront to her character to say she doesn't have the resolve of some of these people here. She has displayed very clearly that she has the dedication to fight with all her strength.
Again, the idea that she doesn't have much experience is nothing more than baseless assumption (no offense) that conflicts with material we have seen, namely battles in Railgun. There are people who definitely have more experience yes, but those people are pretty much the cream of the crop; few people have more experience than them. (Fiamma, Vento, Acqua, etc.)
Not willing to kill has hardly ever been a detrimental factor to any character in anime; in fact, a lot of action anime characters don't kill at all. Not to mention, control of electricity is one of the best abilities to have for non-killing, and if your stun bolts aren't hitting or affecting your opponent, the problem isn't a desire not to kill.

Quote:
And on the point of Mikoto not helping Touma when he went after Acqua: Mikoto at the point was too overwhlemed by the discovery of her feelings towards Touma. I believe the word is 'epiphany'? She was struggling to come to terms with her own self, her conflicting views, and to accept her own feelings; that would take time. And I'd say these things take time to sort out.
As I've also submitted to the others that this view is rather overexaggerrated, and even pretty corny. But first, there weren't "conflicting views" here; she wasn't dealing with a guy who she thought was good but was instead evil or something like that. She'd already known for a while that Touma had amnesia. The only "conflict" was her developing feelings, which she had fully realized by the end of the scene, and why he kept fighting even without his memories.
When you realize you love somone, you don't just watch their battered body limping off to a major battle; her "conflict" about why he fought had been answered, and she had accepted her feelings for him.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeyDude View Post
I can copy/paste stuff from Wikipedia too! Though in this case I'll use other sources that define what a 'plot device' is differently.
More insults aren't appreciated.....I don't know why you're acting snotty because I copy+pasted a definition............

Quote:
"A plot device is a low-energy means of fulfilling the requirements of dramatic necessity, without having to develop the plot or characters much."

or

"A plot device is an object or character in the story whose purpose is purely to drive the plot or resolve situations. It could be something everybody wants to obtain, a device that must be destroyed, or an annoying teenager who must be protected at all costs."
And both definitions match what I copied and pasted from Wiki.

Quote:
And going by the very thing you quoted from Wikipedia, a plot device was used to prevent Mikoto from engaging in fights she may have been able to participate in. The 'difficulty' to overcome in the plot was somehow not getting Mikoto involved. Therefore a plot device was used to get her out of the way.
Problem with your point is, it still doesn't change that convenient inconsistency was used with Kuroko to get Mikoto out (Hyouka was the one she should have gotten out, as per her duties with Judgement), and Sphinx suddenly running away when he was perfectly content in Index's shirt with Mikoto a foot or two away.

Quote:
No one likes to debate with a brick wall. Actually forget debate, no one wants to discuss something with a brick wall. You are supposed to at least acknowledge valid points we are making, not just coming up with contrived responses such as "Still missing my point". Maybe you're the one missing our point hmm?
This is where I'm going to stop responding to you now......so far you're the only one who has displayed negative feelings here, and giorno, from the other side of the debate from me, even stuck up for me. I'm acknowledging all your points, and debating against them; it's called "debating." "Refusing to acknowledge your points" would be more like "What are you an idiot?! That's not right!" How would a debate take place if one guy didn't debate against anything the other guy says?





Again, if you guys just don't want to bother with the debate anymore, I can just shut up now.
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Last edited by Shinji103; 2011-02-22 at 00:15.
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Old 2011-02-22, 01:01   Link #8052
MonkeyDude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
More insults aren't appreciated.....I don't know why you're acting snotty because I copy+pasted a definition............
Snotty? Nope. Annoyed? Yes. Why? Because I thought you were going to use your own definition (how others perceive a word is more important than the definition itself in my opinion), but you just copied Wiki...

Quote:
Problem with your point is, it still doesn't change that convenient inconsistency was used with Kuroko to get Mikoto out (Hyouka was the one she should have gotten out, as per her duties with Judgement), and Sphinx suddenly running away when he was perfectly content in Index's shirt with Mikoto a foot or two away.
Problem with your analysis is that no such inconsistency exists. You may think an inconsistency exists, but it doesn't. Maybe if you don't know the characters in-depth then an inconsistency may exist, but characters have acted within the parameters in which they were written in. You've received numerous explanations as to why Kuroko chose to teleport Mikoto out instead of Hyouka and you have pointedly ignored all of them. Probably the only "inconsistency" is why Touma and Hyouka left before Kuroko returned (which she did), but that's really more of a plot device to introduce Hyouka as something not human (which set the stage of her introduction as an angel) without anyone else finding out except the parties involved. Sphinx running away at just the right time and somehow being at the place where Ellis would pop up is convenient...not inconsistent. Something that could happen and did happen at a convenient time isn't an inconsistency, it's a convenient plot device.

Quote:
This is where I'm going to stop responding to you now......so far you're the only one who has displayed negative feelings here, and giorno, from the other side of the debate from me, even stuck up for me. I'm acknowledging all your points, and debating against them; it's called "debating." "Refusing to acknowledge your points" would be more like "What are you an idiot?! That's not right!" How would a debate take place if one guy didn't debate against anything the other guy says?
Sure don't respond so I won't have to keep getting wrapped up in this endless cycle you call a debate. I know I shouldn't keep subjecting myself to this, but hey what can I say I'm just a sucker for punishment. I don't enjoy debating all too much, I prefer to discuss things and reformulate my viewpoint based on the evidence presented. Your presented viewpoint as to how and why Mikoto should have been included in these fights hasn't swayed me much given that you haven't been able to prove to me how this would contribute to the plot at all. You can talk about inconsistencies (that don't really exist) or how characters involved acting out of character just to keep her out (when they're not) all you want, but you have failed to answer the key question of how exactly would she make any meaningful contribution to the plot if she were included in these fights. Unless you answer that question satisfactorily, then I have to say this is just some fanboy complaining how his favorite character got shafted for 'x' reason. And going by some of the arguments you've used (and how some just make no sense whatsoever), that's the only logical conclusion I can reach.

So yeah don't respond to this so I can happily go back to lurking!
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Old 2011-02-22, 01:45   Link #8053
EvilSamurai
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on a side note

volume 15 chapter 4 parts 1-2 are done.

parts 1-2
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Old 2011-02-22, 02:58   Link #8054
~Greed~
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Does anyone know Alfar's powers? I'm a bit curious about her, since she is not a human character.
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Old 2011-02-22, 03:04   Link #8055
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Greed~ View Post
Does anyone know Alfar's powers? I'm a bit curious about her, since she is not a human character.
It says right there - [Evolution Acceleration]

It's the natural abilities of Elves, just by being around them you slowly evolve to compensate for whatever weakness.
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Old 2011-02-22, 03:07   Link #8056
~Greed~
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
It says right there - [Evolution Acceleration]

It's the natural abilities of Elves, just by being around them you slowly evolve to compensate for whatever weakness.
I saw that but wasn't sure what it meant. How did she use this in battle? How exactly does she evolve when she uses it?
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Old 2011-02-22, 03:15   Link #8057
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Greed~ View Post
I saw that but wasn't sure what it meant. How did she use this in battle? How exactly does she evolve when she uses it?
*blink*

Who said anything about combat?
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Old 2011-02-22, 03:19   Link #8058
~Greed~
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
*blink*

Who said anything about combat?
Usually abilities like that would be used for fighting. Like Cars from JJBA for example has a evolution ability that allows him to adapt to attacks.

I was just curious about her and her powers is all.


edit - I read that wrong. I thought you said that she was the one who evolves, but it's those around her that evolve to gain something that they lack.

I really shouldn't ask questions like this at 3 in the morning.
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Old 2011-02-22, 03:22   Link #8059
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Greed~ View Post
Usually abilities like that would be used for fighting. Like Cars from JJBA for example has a evolution ability that allows him to adapt to attacks.

I was just curious about her and her powers is all.

It still doesn't magically let you grow wings and fly, even though it's called [Evolution Acceleration], it's still a slow and small process, like growing immunity to certain diseases.
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Old 2011-02-22, 03:23   Link #8060
~Greed~
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Yea, I edited my post. Like I said, I read it wrong.
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