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Old 2011-02-21, 03:16   Link #3081
Hooves
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Maybe time to find a new religion?

With the recent release of a certain game by NISA, I have new goddesses to worship :



There! My new goddesses! And they are cute too!
Oh SaintessHeart, how you claimed so many cute girls (preferably twin-tails) now with this you certainly can lighten up discussions quite well. It's a tempting offer though
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Old 2011-02-21, 14:20   Link #3082
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Huszaro View Post
Boy was it a bad idea to jump in this thread.

To make things clear, I just don't like Athiests.
Yeah, I think we all got that. You still don't get to redefine and pigeon hole us to fit your prejudices.

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Oh y did religion have to exist? It has caused so many problems in the past
Funny opinion from someone who admitted to not liking atheists.
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Old 2011-02-21, 19:32   Link #3083
Urzu 7
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I used to have a prejudice against atheists that has gotten much better. Today, I have a friend that is atheist, and it's no problem to me. I guess we all form prejudices in life. What is important is overcoming them.

Now, I'm a very spiritual person who generally likes Christianity. But I don't like religious extremists, including those that are Christians. As I've been more open minded about atheists and came to know that plenty of them are good people, I'd like to say I really don't like the atheists that are extremists, the ones that make it their goal to 'crusade' against spirituality, and like to make Christians experience doubt. People such as Richard Dawkins. I don't like that man. He intentionally causes disharmony in the life of others. That is bad karma.
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Old 2011-02-21, 19:38   Link #3084
Asuras
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No one likes an extremist...
Right?

I have a strong liking to spiritual people who show tolerance. To me it shows that one can be open-minded and still keep their own ideals. It's when religious zealots press their ideals onto others or enact they're opinion as the "voice of God" that it irks me. Unfortunately as well, man tends to dwell on the negatives rather than the positives more often than not, and as such, stereotypes are born.
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Old 2011-02-21, 19:56   Link #3085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
People such as Richard Dawkins. I don't like that man. He intentionally causes disharmony in the life of others. That is bad karma.
But if such simply things can cause disharmony in them, did they really have that much faith to begin with? I mean, isn't it better that they're made aware of how weak their faith in the system is?

So that they might find a belief, religion, ideals, or philosophy that they really find to be true and wouldn't be shaken from easily; rather than leaving them with something that they truly didn't have faith in the first place, but they had just accepted it because of tradition, status-quo, or such of the culture they were born in?

So I don't think doing so is really bad karma, since it could help people realize the truth about their ideals .
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Old 2011-02-21, 20:31   Link #3086
MeoTwister5
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In contrast to Urzu I may actually prefer people to have their faith challenged and have a subsequent crisis of faith because it will cause people to investigate their belief systems rather than blindly follow them. It makes you choose rather than be obliged.

I do agree to an extent with his stance on Dawkins. It's hard to try and understand his position whem he shows contempt for you and whatever you believe in.
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Old 2011-02-21, 20:45   Link #3087
Urzu 7
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Konakaga and MeoTwister:

You are right that it can be good for some to have their beliefs challenged as it can lead to personal growth or finding faith in another belief system that can benefit them more.

What I had in mind when I said what I said was the people who wouldn't benefit from their beliefs being challenged. For many people it is a delicate thing and would only serve to add turmoil to their lives. That is what I had in mind. You two are right that it doesn't always lead to a bad outcome. I've thought of those viewpoints before, and actually, my tendency to inquire and philosophize has been very rewarding for me. However, for many people, that isn't their cup of tea and having stability with their faith brings great stability to their lives.
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Old 2011-02-21, 20:59   Link #3088
Ascaloth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
I used to have a prejudice against atheists that has gotten much better. Today, I have a friend that is atheist, and it's no problem to me. I guess we all form prejudices in life. What is important is overcoming them.

Now, I'm a very spiritual person who generally likes Christianity. But I don't like religious extremists, including those that are Christians. As I've been more open minded about atheists and came to know that plenty of them are good people, I'd like to say I really don't like the atheists that are extremists, the ones that make it their goal to 'crusade' against spirituality, and like to make Christians experience doubt. People such as Richard Dawkins. I don't like that man. He intentionally causes disharmony in the life of others. That is bad karma.
Wow, way to invoke Appeal to Motive, argumentum ad hominem abusive and argumentum ad consequentiam all at once. So very persuasive, yes.

In my POV, if having the balls to promote critical thinking in the face of mainstream disapproval and general disinclination to re-examine "common sense" is "causing disharmony" and asking for "bad karma", give me disharmony and bad karma any day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
What I had in mind when I said what I said was the people who wouldn't benefit from their beliefs being challenged. For many people it is a delicate thing and would only serve to add turmoil to their lives. That is what I had in mind. You two are right that it doesn't always lead to a bad outcome. I've thought of those viewpoints before, and actually, my tendency to inquire and philosophize has been very rewarding for me. However, for many people, that isn't their cup of tea and having stability with their faith brings great stability to their lives.
Well, I didn't see this until I posted this post, so well....Yeah, okay, fair enough. I know what you mean by those kind of people too; even I'm not heartless enough to dash my grandmother's expectations that she'll see my recently deceased grandfather again someday.

Last edited by Ascaloth; 2011-02-21 at 21:28.
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Old 2011-02-21, 21:18   Link #3089
Asuras
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
Wow, way to invoke Appeal to Motive, argumentum ad hominem abusive and argumentum ad consequentiam all at once. So very persuasive, yes.
Learned something new today.
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Old 2011-02-22, 00:27   Link #3090
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooves View Post
Oh SaintessHeart, how you claimed so many cute girls (preferably twin-tails) now with this you certainly can lighten up discussions quite well. It's a tempting offer though
I also have more goddesses which I worship, like Haruhi, Horo, Tenri, etc.

However, I have not decided on a name for this religion yet, so I'll just worship my goddesses as they are.

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Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
However, Ascaloth (in his/her/its own snarky way ) does make a valid point.
Fixed for correctness.

Quote:
Critical thinking is an imperative to strengthening one's faith and/or view of the world IMO.
With some omnipotent, omnipresent, impervious entity providing all the answers, who needs critical thinking when one can just quote "God"? *sarcastic*

Honestly speaking, if "God" does exist, he/she/it is obviously being tsundere when saying "Thou shalt not question about what or who I am!".
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Old 2011-02-22, 00:30   Link #3091
MeoTwister5
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@urzu

Some have argues that sutra to be the origin of science itself which is not surprising given the comtributions from the central Asian and subcontinental regions.

Anyway Gundam made my point for me. I am a cautious proponent of the ideas Dawkins put forth in The Selfish Gene, but I didn't even finish The God Delusion because I had to ask myself if a nun ran over his dog on the street. Kind of hard to engage someone who won't get off his high horse.
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Old 2011-02-22, 01:05   Link #3092
Ascaloth
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Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
So, I guess the point I'm getting at is that I'm a spiritual person who exercises thinking for themselves and doesn't think that spirituality and science have to clash so much.
I missed this part earlier, so I'll comment on it now; how often has science and spirituality clashed? Science and faith, yes; but spirituality is quite distinct from faith, despite often being lumped together. Hell, the Four Horsemen themselves, from what I know, are quite spiritual people in their own way.

Last edited by james0246; 2011-02-22 at 01:20. Reason: off-topic discussion...
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Old 2011-02-22, 09:04   Link #3093
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im a catholic
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Old 2011-02-22, 13:41   Link #3094
JC...
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I don't believe Religion itself is bad. What is bad about religion is that it's easily used as an excuse for people to fight. The holy land, Protestant vs Catholic, Extremists etc. This leads to negative outcomes for the average religious follower.

I.E It has been more 'acceptable' for the average person to say racist things about muslims and middle eastern citizens because lots of people watch the news and somehow think that Islam is synonymous with Terrorism. It's purely ignorance.
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Old 2011-02-22, 14:32   Link #3095
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
I used to have a prejudice against atheists that has gotten much better. Today, I have a friend that is atheist, and it's no problem to me. I guess we all form prejudices in life. What is important is overcoming them.

Now, I'm a very spiritual person who generally likes Christianity. But I don't like religious extremists, including those that are Christians. As I've been more open minded about atheists and came to know that plenty of them are good people, I'd like to say I really don't like the atheists that are extremists, the ones that make it their goal to 'crusade' against spirituality, and like to make Christians experience doubt. People such as Richard Dawkins. I don't like that man. He intentionally causes disharmony in the life of others. That is bad karma.
Has he advocated violence against those who disagreed with him? Can't be much of an extremist if he hasn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
Konakaga and MeoTwister:

You are right that it can be good for some to have their beliefs challenged as it can lead to personal growth or finding faith in another belief system that can benefit them more.

What I had in mind when I said what I said was the people who wouldn't benefit from their beliefs being challenged. For many people it is a delicate thing and would only serve to add turmoil to their lives. That is what I had in mind. You two are right that it doesn't always lead to a bad outcome. I've thought of those viewpoints before, and actually, my tendency to inquire and philosophize has been very rewarding for me. However, for many people, that isn't their cup of tea and having stability with their faith brings great stability to their lives.
Then maybe those people shouldn't listen to Dawkins. If they're that fragile.
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Old 2011-02-22, 16:03   Link #3096
TWWK
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Originally Posted by Asuras View Post
No one likes an extremist...
Right?
There seems to be this trend of many holding the belief that zealotry and extremism in religion is a bad thing. Of course, it could lead to awful actions (ex. The Crusades, terrorism), but being on fire for your beliefs isn't in itself bad. In fact, we often praise passion when it comes to just about everything else except religion.

So, some Christian dude loves God so much, and tries to spread the gospel message to you. Is he bad? Annoying, sure. Wrong, perhaps. But if he's right, then his extremism could just be a really, really good thing.

Though I guess it also becomes a question of semantics. How extreme does one have to be to be considered an extremist?
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Old 2011-02-22, 16:12   Link #3097
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by TWWK View Post
There seems to be this trend of many holding the belief that zealotry and extremism in religion is a bad thing. Of course, it could lead to awful actions (ex. The Crusades, terrorism), but being on fire for your beliefs isn't in itself bad. In fact, we often praise passion when it comes to just about everything else except religion.

So, some Christian dude loves God so much, and tries to spread the gospel message to you. Is he bad? Annoying, sure. Wrong, perhaps. But if he's right, then his extremism could just be a really, really good thing.
Not really. Has that kind of thing ever converted anyone? You don't attract flies with vinegar, after all.

Quote:
Though I guess it also becomes a question of semantics. How extreme does one have to be to be considered an extremist?
Yeah. As I said, as long as violence in uninvolved, I think the label of "extremist" is unwarranted.
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Old 2011-02-22, 16:21   Link #3098
Haak
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Not really. Has that kind of thing ever converted anyone? You don't attract flies with vinegar, after all.
Well I'm sure it works in some cases and I suppose to them it never hurts to try and they get saitisfaction from spreading the message.

Quote:
Yeah. As I said, as long as violence in uninvolved, I think the label of "extremist" is unwarranted.
Well I reckon manipulation would also count. I don't think Dawkins is extremist though. Controversial is a more appropriate term imo. (I too tried to read The God Delusion and couldn't get half way before getting fed up. Maybe some other time..)
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Old 2011-02-22, 16:24   Link #3099
Anh_Minh
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Well I'm sure it works in some cases and I suppose to them it never hurts to try and they get saitisfaction from spreading the message.
No, they just make it harder for the other missionaries...
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Old 2011-02-22, 16:25   Link #3100
Haak
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Oh my bad. I thought he was talking about missionairies in general...
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