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Old 2011-02-19, 03:36   Link #941
UsagiTenpura
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Those are pretty much wild explanations that I don't consider even remotely likely.
While imo Ange Brocon is seeing way too much out of way too little, and what I said is having a consistent character and story.
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Old 2011-02-23, 12:38   Link #942
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Originally Posted by UsagiTenpura View Post
While imo Ange Brocon is seeing way too much out of way too little, and what I said is having a consistent character and story.
Something just hit me. If Kanon and Shannon were in love, would that be narcissism?
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Old 2011-02-23, 13:08   Link #943
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Originally Posted by RockReborn View Post
Something just hit me. If Kanon and Shannon were in love, would that be narcissism?
I guess it depends on what sort of love they hold for each other, but yeah i guess you could claim that.
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Old 2011-02-24, 07:43   Link #944
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Originally Posted by RockReborn View Post
Something just hit me. If Kanon and Shannon were in love, would that be narcissism?
I think that BatBeato is also borderline narcissism. You have a girl (?) who is 75% genetically Kinzo and a guy who is basically a Kinzo lookalike who are in love with each other.
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Old 2011-02-24, 13:39   Link #945
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Narcissism does not work that way.
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Old 2011-02-24, 14:10   Link #946
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This post seems more suited for the EP7 thread >,>

I was under the impression that Battler looks like Kinzo
and Beatrice looks like Beatrice the first XD

So, Battler looks like a tall Japanese guy, and Beatrice looks Itailian. But thats just a guess.

Though incest is kinda....yeah, I`m not to sure what to say..... At least it`s not as bad as Kinzo and Beatice 2nd.

But it could be genetic attraction
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Old 2011-02-24, 16:19   Link #947
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Narcissism does not work that way.
Neither do genes.
But following that logic George is now in love with his aunt/uncle, his (ambiguously female) cousin, his other (male) cousin and his grandfather. Congratulations, we've reached another level of squickness.
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Old 2011-02-24, 16:50   Link #948
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Neither do genes.
But following that logic George is now in love with his aunt/uncle, his (ambiguously female) cousin, his other (male) cousin and his grandfather. Congratulations, we've reached another level of squickness.
Wait....George....?
I thought we were talking about Battler...
Either way....Umineko just runs on the "Incest is WINcest" in one of the squickest ways ever D:
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Old 2011-02-24, 16:52   Link #949
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Well, in Japan, cousin incest isn't that big of a deal, so it's cultural dissonance.
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Old 2011-02-25, 00:56   Link #950
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But they purposely made it seem all 'forbidden' and stuff so that Yasu would have a more painful situation to go through, right?
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Old 2011-02-25, 01:44   Link #951
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Well it wasn't so much the incest so much as "Oh, hey, I kiiiind've fell in love with three different people. Herp."

Yasu doesn't seem to mind shacking up with one of her cousins too terribly much; she's already and incest baby and she can't reproduce, so what's the problem?
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Old 2011-02-25, 04:20   Link #952
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kittylyoko View Post
Wait....George....?
I thought we were talking about Battler...
Either way....Umineko just runs on the "Incest is WINcest" in one of the squickest ways ever D:
I was speaking hypothetically.

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Well it wasn't so much the incest so much as "Oh, hey, I kiiiind've fell in love with three different people. Herp."

Yasu doesn't seem to mind shacking up with one of her cousins too terribly much; she's already and incest baby and she can't reproduce, so what's the problem?
It's not the incest itself that is disturbing, but the amount, really.
I mean, 3/5? I'm surprised we didn't have a 1998 world in which Yasu ditched the cousins and went for a student-teacher relationship with Maria, just for the perfect score, yet. (I wouldn't put it past Ryukishi.)
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Old 2011-02-25, 15:33   Link #953
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It's not that big of an amount. Bear in mind only one person out of the four cousins involved have any idea of their blood relation. But take away the cousin thing, and it's one girl being torn between two love interests while still pining for an old crush from her childhood. This isn't the slightest bit weird.
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Old 2011-04-10, 20:37   Link #954
Tsuki Aoi Usagi
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Although I haven't really read any of the VNs yet, I did spoil myself the ending(s) and I must say that I am both disappointed but at the same time content.

My only disappointment was that the storyline/plot devices weren't the same as Higurashi and that you couldn't have a way to either earn or figure a way to prevent all of the murders (or at least a good amount of them). So I guess in that aspect, I shouldn't have assumed it was going to be like Higurashi...but I still don't like how there was a "truth" that couldn't be changed and that no matter how hard you wanted to, there was no way to be able to start things over and try again. In other words, I feel like everything was for nothing, because in the beginning...it was like Battler was trying to defeat Beatrice in their game so he could "undo" her "magic" and save his family. I guess the whole thing changed when Beatrice tried to commit suicide (and officially died in the fifth EP) but I don't know.

I expected a bittersweet ending, but I didn't really expect it the way it turned out.
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Old 2011-04-13, 00:05   Link #955
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Reading through EP8, I keep bumping into things that make me want to reread EP6 again.

1) In the scene where Ange is lured out of the parlor window, there's a line that implies that she, not Battler, is the one who has nightmares about being stuck in a locked room. Since the first "creepy locked room" scene in Dawn was immediately followed by Ange waking up, I'm wondering if that could have been exploited by Battler somehow.

2) Bern's talk about the ability of a reader miko to tamper with the narration was very interesting... Because of that, I got to thinking about Ange reading for Featherine. We (apparently) see the results of her reading, and she doesn't have any reason to lie or misdirect anyone, so we can probably trust her not to narrate deceptively. On the other hand, she's effectively narrating about Battler narrating his game board, so lies from him would bubble up unfiltered to what we see.

So is there anything she alone was responsible for? Well, since Bern didn't know about Featherine's involvement until after the game, she must not have had access to the meta-world narration. Maybe that means we can attribute that to Ange and mark it all trustworthy?

Assuming it isn't all filtered through another layer of Featherine's narration, anyway.
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Old 2011-04-13, 08:18   Link #956
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So far as I can recall, the first-person narration parts of the Logic Error never identify the speaker, correct? If that were the case Battler could have always been exploiting it.
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Old 2011-04-13, 22:39   Link #957
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So is there anything she alone was responsible for? Well, since Bern didn't know about Featherine's involvement until after the game, she must not have had access to the meta-world narration. Maybe that means we can attribute that to Ange and mark it all trustworthy?
To continue this line of thought, "trustworthy" is probably the wrong word. Even though Ange's the reader, she doesn't actually know the truth of the story, so she's working from some kind of incomplete information. If she makes an incorrect assumption about the behavior of the meta characters she's reading about, it might bleed into her narration.

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So far as I can recall, the first-person narration parts of the Logic Error never identify the speaker, correct? If that were the case Battler could have always been exploiting it.
Hm, I just checked, and in the first instance the narrator uses "ore", so it probably is Battler in that scene (or at least narrating that he's in that scene). He might have used Ange's dream for inspiration though.
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Old 2011-04-14, 08:31   Link #958
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Use of a masculine pronoun doesn't prove it's Battler. Granted, that doesn't get us very far otherwise.
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Old 2011-04-17, 16:40   Link #959
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Also it can happen that a female that has been in a masculine environement CAN eventually get to call herself with "ore". It happened before in many manga. Tomboy girls? I wouldn't put it past Japan.
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Old 2011-04-17, 18:35   Link #960
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Also, even though it was really jarring, Beatrice was shown to be speaking in a rather masculine fashion when she acknowledging Natsuhi as her mother and herself as the Man From 19 Years Ago to Natsuhi. I forgot whether she was using ore or boku in that scene though, but everything else was masculine.

(In EP8.)

Although I'd think the use of 'ore' would imply Battler in most cases anyways...
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