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View Poll Results: Madoka Magica - Episode 09 Rating
Perfect 10 91 52.00%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 36 20.57%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 29 16.57%
7 out of 10 : Good 12 6.86%
6 out of 10 : Average 4 2.29%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.57%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 1.14%
Voters: 175. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-03-03, 14:02   Link #41
magnuskn
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Huh, I guess I will stop caring for this series until I've read spoilers for the last episode. No need to get emotionally invested too much if I already know that it'll probably all end in tears and dismembered body parts.
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Old 2011-03-03, 14:09   Link #42
Vanish
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So it was futile after all. Lie or not, Kyubei had no reason at all to tell Kyouko to back off even if he knew it was futile. In other words, preventing her death was by no means an option that was considered, because Kyubei gained >something< in return (waiting for subs).

However, I'd like to say that Kyouko's death was not in vain either. It was her own decision. She was forced to only a single option, at her limit, but at least going from her words and expression, she felt no regret. Dying to protect someone is what this case is, or: finding your peace with someone.

I must say that her Overlimit High-Ougi Mystic Arte (lol) was by the way quite impressive, too bad it was this short. Looked heroic at the very least. Also: it seems like your Soul Gem can change location while you're in MG form, though I assume it needs some kind of short prayer to have it detached. At least from what I got, she transferred it from between her collar bone to her hair clip? lol I need to rewatch it later.

Oh, and the most striking, personally: in this episode, again, Homura lost her pokerface for an instant as she called out to Kyouko in a worrying tone. And afterwards, when the tragic scene was left, she called out her name yet another time, "Kyouko." Not to mention her question towards Kyubei about Kyouko pretty much showed her actual concern for her in the first place.
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Old 2011-03-03, 14:25   Link #43
panzerfan
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There is a much more serious issue to discuss, being that of the heat death of the universe which the Incubator's race is trying to stave off. Kurogane has it down pretty good as I missed some of the crucial phrases. Madoka will be a ridiculously strong magical girl/witch and this generation of energy can stave off thermal equilibrium of the universe... (I think this matter is for speculation though. Mentioning here as this is what the Incubator was talking about to Madoka)

Essentially, human emotions, positive or negative, can be made into energy without loss by the Incubator's race. They peg, for undisclosed reason, on selected adolescent girls to generate that energy in order to allow the universe machine to keep doing work, if you will, to stave off the heat death or cold death of the universe. The positive emotion of a wish and the negative emotion of a curse would both be harnessed to make benefit the work of the glorious universe. I was asking Kurogane if this were information entropy or thermal, and it seems that the thermal entropy is what the Incubator meant.
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Old 2011-03-03, 14:39   Link #44
ruurguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Gee, I wonder what happened to the "be a cool mahou shoujo for miracles and saving people" pitch ... sounds like you have to tone down your salestalk some. Burnt customer, hm?
Yeah, the recruitment message sure has changed huh?
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Old 2011-03-03, 15:26   Link #45
willag
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In regards to what was revealed in episode 9.

Spoiler for ...:


Quote:
Originally Posted by scr View Post
Well... I dont give a damn even if it's a necessary evil. History proves time and again how the necessary evil are just evil, plain and simple. As recent as 20th century (and even now), people believed that war over resources is a necessary evil. Oil, minerals, metals, you name it. But breakthroughs in science render many of those conflicts unnecessary. Clean energy replaces fuel. Resilient, carefully gene-engineered crops can be planted in harsh lands. New medicines save those who otherwise would have opted for euthanasia. So I dont believe that girls must be sacrificed for the universe's continuing existence. If anything, the mechanism of the universe must be analyzed so that a win-win solution can be obtained; instead of listening to some dubious creepy little fucker who has been caught by tails again and again.
How do you think we got those medicines? Do you understand what kind of testing needs to be done to determine the safety of these medicines? I'm in the medical device industry, and I can tell you now that it is not solely in vitro. Progress is always built upon sacrifices. To get to the point where we can genetically engineer crops or use clean energy, we've had to go through centuries of development. It's been a long experience of trial-and-error.
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Old 2011-03-03, 15:31   Link #46
panzerfan
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@Willag: I do not think the Incubator is invoking Maxwell's demon. He himself says that he has no ability to circumvent the laws of nature, so he is not reversing the axis of time or anything like that... what you are saying does not actually serve well since you are not generating more free energy to do more work for the universe, but are instead taking out more energy from the universe closed system, which will lead to thermodynamic death of the universe faster... basically the magical girls somehow yield energy to keep the flow going, instead of taking out the flow of energy.

By the way, in what you've said, our Incubator has to generate energy in order to remove disorder of the universe. That energy alone need to come from somewhere, and essentially he needs to put out more energy than what can be taken out to pull that off, and he in term will be counted as part of that system. Interesting enough, without doing anything, you can technically have a decrease or disorder, but it will only happen to a few molecules at a microscopic level (quantum realm).

(wait. Physics in animu... I did this back in Clannad.)
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Last edited by panzerfan; 2011-03-03 at 15:54.
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Old 2011-03-03, 15:38   Link #47
Miraluka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruurguy View Post
@Kazu-Kun: He isn't necessarily lying. If anything of what we know, he is NOT lying. He is being very specific. The two questions are not the same:

"Is there no way to save Sayaka?"

"Was there any chance for Sakura Kyouko to have rescued Sayaka?"

Is there a way to save Sayaka? Maybe? There is always wishes. There is also perhaps the unlimited potential he thinks Madoka has? His answer for whether SAKURA KYOUKO could save Sayaka is very blunt though. The answer is no, Kyouko has no possibility of saving Sayaka.
Or you can see it like this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by panzerfan View Post
杏子「さやかを助ける方法は何か無いの?」
Kyouko: "Is there no way to save Sayaka?"
QB「前例が無いから、僕にも方法はわからない」
Incubator: "I do not really know of a way since there is no precedence."

↓(杏子死亡後) (After Kyouko's death)

ほむら「佐倉杏子にさやかを救える望みはあったの?」
Homura:"Was there any chance for Sakura Kyouko to have rescued Sayaka?"
QB「まさか。そんなのあるわけないじゃないか。」
Incubator: "No. There is definitely no way for that to have happened."
Before Kyouko there was no precedence.

After Kyouko's attempt there is a precedence of failure, Kyouko herself.

There is no lie there, see?
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Old 2011-03-03, 15:57   Link #48
Mentar
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To be honest, at this point, I don't give a plague-infected rat's ass for attempts to preserve the "but QB hasn't lied yet" spiel. He admitted - openly - that he was deceiving naive unsuspecting girls for his own gains. He has consciously withheld critical information from them in order to trick them, knowing that it would cost their lives, while in the meantime pretending not to know. His credibility is flat-out zero, because even if you try to maintain that he refrained from outright lies, there is no reason to believe that he would be unable to do so when it suits him. He is - confirmed by himself - a treacherous, murderous bastard, and it would show incredible naivete to believe him. He has adapted his story and revealed the truth only when circumstances forced him to, and even now that he is unmasked, he is still pitching at Madoka's greatest weakness: Her self-sacrifical goodwill.

Homura obviously knows what he's up to, and I can already predict that I'm not going to participate in the pseudo-scientific babble QB oozed (unless the translated version happens to offer intriguing insights). I'm going to pick the Homura side, thank you very much. 3 eps to go, it will certainly be a rocky ride. So I guess it's time for

1) more direct pressure on Madoka. Wanna bet that her family will endure some totally coincidental hardships? Most likely her mother will find herself in trouble

2) Madoka and Homura will not hit it off very easily. I don't quite know yet why Homura still isn't really opening up, but I doubt that she'll spill all the beans in ep10. Something is still forcing her to play her hand close to the chest. I wanna know why.
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Old 2011-03-03, 16:08   Link #49
ruurguy
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@Mentar: Oh I think the vast majority of watchers are going to be on Homura's side. As I said I am pretty sure whomever makes up Incubator's side is definitely the real antagonists of the whole thing and I'll cheer for the girls to make something work, hopefully without being ridiculously cheery and trippy ala Mai Hime and/or blowing up the universe in the process cause they didn't think things through. And yeah I'd say the major mystery at this point is just what is Homura's relation to Madoka and what does she know. And then formulating a plan hopefully to stop things/drama/etc.

Although I think it may be for the girl's benefit to not ignore QB but instead to press him for everything and every bit of info its got (unless Homura knows all the answers already, which is unclear at this point). I am not nearly as positive as you are that Homura really does know everything QB is up to.
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Old 2011-03-03, 16:13   Link #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I don't think that's clear at all anymore.

If Kyubey is telling the truth, then he's looking to sacrifice one person to save the universe. Is that really so evil? Is one person's life really worth more than the whole of humanity?

Now if he's lying, then he's crossed a threshold here, and is the real antagonist, yes.

But to the best of our knowledge, he hasn't lied (i.e. say something that's not factually true) yet, so...

And Homura going back in time to prevent Madoka from sacrificing herself to save the universe would fit with what we've seen Homura do and say so far...
The saving may - or may not - take place in the future, but the harm is happening right now. It is deciding factor for me - he must be stopped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by panzerfan View Post
QB「まさか。そんなのあるわけないじゃないか。」
Incubator: "No. There is definitely no way for that to have happened."
Your translation sound too precise, too scientific. Imho it is something more like:
"No way! How it can be possible?"
While it is a strong negative it is not absolute. And the second part technically is a question.
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Old 2011-03-03, 16:16   Link #51
Mentar
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Although I think it may be for the girl's benefit to not ignore QB but instead to press him for everything and every bit of info its got (unless Homura knows all the answers already, which is unclear at this point). I am not nearly as positive as you are that Homura really does know everything QB is up to.
She said that she does know what he's up to, and that she'll prevent him from succeeding at all costs (episode 8). Taking her impeccable track record so far, I do think that she DOES know - because I believe that she has experienced it in other timelines.

I find it hard to believe that the "enemy" of the show is going to be entropy. No, sir, not me. What I can believe is that if there's a way to unlock Madoka's MG potential without selling her soul to QB, there's hope for Sayaka and Kyoko to be revived and the Walpurgisnacht to be survived. In the meantime, I'm crossing my fingers and hoping that Homura is hiding a good trick in her cards. We'll see.
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Old 2011-03-03, 16:23   Link #52
tsunade666
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episode 9 is truly heart warming and mind blender.

The heart warming scene after the mind crush talk of universe and law between madoka and Kyuubei makes me forget about it. By the time Kyoko is finally becoming friends with madoka she says her last goodbye.

The thing that really push Sayaka to the edge is hitomi and kamijou. The scene of her stage as a witch just confirms she really like Kamijou but when her friend start going out with the guy. That's just really crushed her to the core. The naive way of thinking they can bring Sayaka back is just.... nice but but it still didn't do anything to awaken Miki Sayaka back.

Kyoko wishing for a miracle with Kyubei in the run is just impossible.

Byebye Kyoko and I also wish for a miracle in the end of this story. It's just too sad.
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Old 2011-03-03, 16:23   Link #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dharma View Post
The saving may - or may not - take place in the future, but the harm is happening right now. It is deciding factor for me - he must be stopped.


Your translation sound too precise, too scientific. Imho it is something more like:
"No way! How it can be possible?"
While it is a strong negative it is not absolute. And the second part technically is a question.
I think this is best:

Homura: Sakura Kyouko really wished to save Miki Sayaka.

Kyubei: No way. Wasn't it obvious that it was impossible? (kimateiru janaika? = Wasn't it obvious?)
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Old 2011-03-03, 16:31   Link #54
ruurguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
She said that she does know what he's up to, and that she'll prevent him from succeeding at all costs (episode 8). Taking her impeccable track record so far, I do think that she DOES know - because I believe that she has experienced it in other timelines.

I find it hard to believe that the "enemy" of the show is going to be entropy. No, sir, not me. What I can believe is that if there's a way to unlock Madoka's MG potential without selling her soul to QB, there's hope for Sayaka and Kyoko to be revived and the Walpurgisnacht to be survived. In the meantime, I'm crossing my fingers and hoping that Homura is hiding a good trick in her cards. We'll see.
Hmm, I don't know. A few points:

1) She may think she knows what he is up to, and maybe has it 90% right but sometimes it is the last bit of information that might get you. This is just a possibility though, there is a chance Homura does know the whole truth. However...

2) She may know what is up but that doesn't mean she knows how to stop it. I don't think Homura even has any idea if it is possible to make Madoka into a MG without contracting. She does know that contracting would be bad. That is almost certainly the case.

3) I believe that Homura is a time traveler, but I question if she is the looping/trying to do this multiple time kind. She has shown some genuine surprise like when Mami was killed. When she was released, instead of something like calling her a fool, or saying "Again..." or something like that she goes "No way!/Masaka!" Although she did definitely know that that witch was strong... Also, why bother offering Sayaka a grief seed if she knows it is going to get rejected? Or does she feel she still has to go through the motions of things that happened in the past? Or are you thinking that things are really off this loop that is throwing her off?
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Old 2011-03-03, 17:02   Link #55
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I guess, Sayaka at least has a full and regonizable body for her funeral..

As for Mami and Kyoko..I suppose nobody would know that they are dead, besides from Madoka and Homura? Normal people who has some reason to care about them (government agancy, school - does Kyoko even go to school?) might suspect that they are dead after enough time had passed after them went missing, but can never confirm it.

Last edited by estdesoda; 2011-03-03 at 17:27.
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Old 2011-03-03, 17:06   Link #56
estdesoda
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Originally Posted by Vanish View Post
I think this is best:

Homura: Sakura Kyouko really wished to save Miki Sayaka.

Kyubei: No way. Wasn't it obvious that it was impossible? (kimateiru janaika? = Wasn't it obvious?)
I think this is the first time that Homra see Sayaka becomes MG (judging from her reaction in ep4). If that is the case, this might also be the first time that Homura sees that Kyoko actually is a nice person, thereby explaining her atitudes to Kyoko and question to QB in this episode.
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Old 2011-03-03, 17:22   Link #57
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After this episode I'm all for the Kyoko x Sayaka ship..... to the afterlife ;_;
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Old 2011-03-03, 17:36   Link #58
aeriolewinters
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So Basically, we're getting a monsters inc. ending?

Gen could pull this off if he really wants a double-troll.
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Old 2011-03-03, 18:04   Link #59
Dawnbringerz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dharma View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by panzerfan View Post
QB「まさか。そんなのあるわけないじゃないか。」
Incubator: "No. There is definitely no way for that to have happened."

Your translation sound too precise, too scientific. Imho it is something more like:
"No way! How it can be possible?"
While it is a strong negative it is not absolute. And the second part technically is a question.
The translation is correct. almost correct
Japanese isn't a language you can translate from the words alone.
Half of the translation is in the context (e.g. intonation)

The last か has downwards intonation (you have to listen to the dialog to catch this), together with じゃない making it a rhetorical tag question equivalent to ", isn't it?" in English.

QB believes (maybe not definitely 100% but 99%) that Sayaka can't be saved. He has no doubt regarding this matter in his tone at all. Even the first まさか has a mocking tone, implying that Homura is stupid for asking something that both of them are sure of the answer.


edit:
re-listened, the first sentence before it also has downwards intonation (i.e. it's not a question) and the script is missing some words.

ほむら「佐倉杏子は本当にみきさやかを救える望みがあったの」
Homura: Sakura Kyouko really has a desire to save Miki Sayaka.
QB「まさか。そんなの不可能に決まってるじゃないか。」
What are you saying? There is no way that could be possible, isn't it?

t/n: "that" refers to the ability to save Sayaka, because the next sentence Homura asked why he doesn't stop Kyouku despite her action being a fruitless effort, which is when he revealed that it's to leave Homura as the only one MG to defend Walpurgisnacht.

Last edited by Dawnbringerz; 2011-03-03 at 18:23.
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Old 2011-03-03, 18:22   Link #60
Miraluka
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Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
The heart warming scene after the mind crush talk of universe and law between madoka and Kyuubei makes me forget about it. By the time Kyoko is finally becoming friends with madoka she says her last goodbye.
And the lesson if the episode is: Befriend Madoka, get your big and last death flag.
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