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View Poll Results: Madoka Magica - Episode 09 Rating
Perfect 10 91 52.00%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 36 20.57%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 29 16.57%
7 out of 10 : Good 12 6.86%
6 out of 10 : Average 4 2.29%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.57%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 1.14%
Voters: 175. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-03-03, 20:52   Link #81
Proto
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Aren't we the same though? Sure, I wouldn't say that we should just suck it in and be their power generators, however we cannot be get all high and mighty when we are basically the same.

And that's the real face of this series. Gen Urobuchi has taken after Shōji Kawamori and his environmentalist agenda. *shudder*.
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Old 2011-03-03, 20:54   Link #82
ChronoReverse
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Not really. Since in this universe, humans are self-sustaining to the point where they can repower the entire universe.

We get to decide if we want to sacrifice ourselves to save everyone else. Being sacrificed in order to do that is no sacrifice at all (you could even call that an act of *gasp* evil).

And revealing the least information possible in order to manipulate troubled young girls (especially when it's implied that this could work with ALL humans) is inexcusable.




As for environmentalist agendas, at least humans are self-introspective in terms of the environment. All other species would simply grow and consume unchecked if possible. Only humans actively worry about and devise methods that can even be self-detrimental in order to protect something as vague as "the planet".
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Old 2011-03-03, 20:55   Link #83
gecd
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finally a true heartwarming episode ;_;
we'll see more sayaka x kyouko in pixiv on the next few hours


for next episode
hope they found sayaka's body
i want to see kyousuke and hitomi's reaction
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Old 2011-03-03, 20:56   Link #84
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Originally Posted by ChronoReverse View Post
QB can go **** itself and his race. If they're willing to sacrifice humans to get their energy then they can go sacrifice themselves instead so the energy could be left to the humans.

At least the humans generate their own energy it seems. Parasites should go die.
Humans are a unique species, it sounds like the majority of the races in whatever intergalactic empire are emotionless. From a utilitarian ethical perspective, what QB is doing is absolutely correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proto View Post
Aren't we the same though? Sure, I wouldn't say that we should just suck it in and be their power generators, however we cannot be get all high and mighty when we are basically the same.

And that's the real face of this series. Gen Urobuchi has taken after Shōji Kawamori and his environmentalist agenda. *shudder*.
I wouldn't say this is about environmentalism, it is very clear this is an issue of ethics.

Also, consider this: it may be possible for mahou shoujo to produce energy, AND not become witches.

Last edited by Daniel E.; 2011-03-04 at 04:39.
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Old 2011-03-03, 20:58   Link #85
ChronoReverse
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Originally Posted by taofd View Post
Humans are a unique species, it sounds like the majority of the races in whatever intergalactic empire are emotionless. From a utilitarian ethical perspective, what QB is doing is absolutely correct.
Then it's equally correct that humans should just destroy them all and live happy self-sustaining existences.



The very fact they can decide to "sacrifice little for the greater" means they have a sense of morality. They just decided they have the right to choose for humans as well. In that case, humans can choose that QB's race members are just parasites that should die.
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Old 2011-03-03, 21:00   Link #86
Elestia
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I laugh at how QB stated this so boldly:

Quote:
But we're only making the contract only if you agree to it.
But yeah, the subs make it clear that QB has been putting pressure on Madoka into a situation where she has no choice, but to make a contract. By letting Kyoko suicide, he put Homura in a position where she is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Now that she is the only MG left, the impending night is a wonderful opportunity for QB to force Madoka to make a contract to save the city, by pitting the situation against her personality. Oh, QB you are a wonderful manipulator~
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Old 2011-03-03, 21:02   Link #87
Decagon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gecd View Post
hope they found sayaka's body
i want to see kyousuke and hitomi's reaction
"Local girl reported missing by her parents two days ago found dead in hotel room."

Quote:
Originally Posted by taofd View Post
Humans are a unique species, it sounds like the majority of the races in whatever intergalactic empire are emotionless. From a utilitarian ethical perspective, what QB is doing is absolutely correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by taofd View Post
Also, consider this: it may be possible for mahou shoujo to produce energy, AND not become witches.
I'm not sure how to identify correctness from finding a source of energy to replace energy that spreads too far from entropy. And it's stated rather explicitly that they only harvest the energy when the seed blows. If we believe that this is not subject to entropy, then maybe they could build it back by using the same amount of energy, but that would defeat the purpose of making the girl go witch in the first place.
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Old 2011-03-03, 21:04   Link #88
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QB's race are the ones using up too much energy.

For the greater good of the universe, the entire technology of using human emotional energy should be given to humans. Then QB's race should commit mass suicide.

It's for the greatest good of the whole universe
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Old 2011-03-03, 21:06   Link #89
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"Local girl reported missing by her parents two days ago found dead in hotel room."
Look on the bright side Sayaka at least has a full and recognizable body for a funeral..
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Old 2011-03-03, 21:10   Link #90
GDB
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"Local girl reported missing by her parents two days ago found dead in hotel room."
I'm curious as to what the stated cause of death would be. Probably just stated to be "unknown", I suppose.
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Old 2011-03-03, 21:22   Link #91
taofd
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Originally Posted by ChronoReverse View Post
Then it's equally correct that humans should just destroy them all and live happy self-sustaining existences.



The very fact they can decide to "sacrifice little for the greater" means they have a sense of morality. They just decided they have the right to choose for humans as well. In that case, humans can choose that QB's race members are just parasites that should die.
QB specifically talks about humans being inducted into the ranks of whatever galactic organization he is apart of.

Humans simply don't have the technology to compete until then, so QB or whatever race he is a part of, has determined what is "right" because until then, they are superior and will do the decision making.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Wing View Post
Look on the bright side Sayaka at least has a full and recognizable body for a funeral..
Don't give up yet, a mai hime ending may still be possible! And if it did happen, this series is already so good, that Urobuchi may be able to pull it off RIGHT this time!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronoReverse View Post
QB's race are the ones using up too much energy.

For the greater good of the universe, the entire technology of using human emotional energy should be given to humans. Then QB's race should commit mass suicide.

It's for the greatest good of the whole universe
I recommend you go read wikipedia's article on utilitarianism.

Last edited by Daniel E.; 2011-03-04 at 04:41.
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Old 2011-03-03, 21:25   Link #92
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Originally Posted by ChronoReverse View Post
The very fact they can decide to "sacrifice little for the greater" means they have a sense of morality. They just decided they have the right to choose for humans as well. In that case, humans can choose that QB's race members are just parasites that should die.
Not true at all, they are simply doing what they can to sustain their own existence. Moral doesn't have to come into the question at all
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Old 2011-03-03, 21:28   Link #93
Decagon
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Originally Posted by Fishbait View Post
Not true at all, they are simply doing what they can to sustain their own existence. Moral doesn't have to come into the question at all
But they never said that they need this energy to survive, just that it isn't subject to entropy.
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Old 2011-03-03, 21:29   Link #94
DasDingus
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I feel like everybody is glossing over a line of Kyuubey's that I found very telling. He says "There are six-billion-nine-hundred-million of you right now and your population is growing by ten every four seconds. So why do you make such a big fuss over the loss of just one of you?" To us as humans, the loss of an individual we knew and cared about is very heart-wrenching but to Kyuubey it's just one of billions.

If any of you have read the Ender's Game series Kyuubey reminds me a lot of the Hive Queen. Her species has a shared consciousness between one queen and thousands or more workers. The workers have no mind of their own, they're just glorified appendages of the queen. Maybe Kyuubey's race is the same way. His body is clearly expendable as we saw last episode.

So while we're treating the death of magical girls as a huge tragedy Kyuubey sees it as no more sorrowful an event than we see scratching off dead skin as. The population is growing faster than the girls are dying, and we can generate sustainable energy for the universe. When only the population as a whole matters and the individual is expendable then what Kyuubey is doing is completely justified.

That said, I don't totally buy it when he says they don't understand human emotions or values. Obviously he has some idea of what makes humans tick because he is quite adept at manipulating humans. Now it's entirely possible that his mental communication is like the hive queen's in that he has an idea in his head and he sends it to a human and the human fills that in with what is familiar to her. He wants to convey the happiness and glory that comes with being a magical girl and the humans interpret that as they will. He's unable to lie because he always says what he's thinking. It's just that he only "throws" the thoughts he chooses to throw. There's no lying, only imperfect exchange of information.
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Old 2011-03-03, 21:29   Link #95
ThereminVox
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Spoiler for ep09:
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Old 2011-03-03, 21:38   Link #96
creb
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Combating entropy. Lol. What an incredibly silly reason, and yet, one could reasonably argue that hypothetically there are some aliens out there that can transcend "normal" time to the point that they might actually stick around till the theoretical heat death of the universe, and thus might actually think it a problem worth solving.

Of course, this means absolutely nothing to humanity. We'll have been long gone before it ever occurs, assuming it does.

Anyways, looks like Kyoko decided she didn't want to "live" any longer. Good to see she was able to choose her way out, in a way that didn't involve her turning into a witch. She and Sayaka will be missed. And, while I personally don't believe in the afterlife, I think in the context of the world portrayed in this show, we can pretend she and Sayaka will spend their afterlife together.

Now, the BIG question of the episode:

What is up with Homura's powers/shield? It now has been shown that she CAN stop time for far longer than a few seconds, which was the previous limit implied by her frantic attempt to catch up with that truck. The difference this time was that she "used" her shield. I suppose it's possible she "used" her shield for all those time stops before, but I'm gonna assume not, which is why there's the difference in the length of time she's able to stop. Plus, the whole setup for that scene just screamed that it was something different from her normal modus operandi. I mean, really, it all comes back to who or what exactly Homura is. They didn't give her the odd-man out soul gem coloration on a whim, me thinks.

I get a bad vibe about the shield, as if there's a limit on how often she can use it, which is why she doesn't use it all the time.

And, while this probably should have been said last episode, I totally do not get why Homura was unable to time stop when wrapped in ribbons or a hold by Kyoko.

Anyways, with three episodes left, it's getting really lonely here with only Homura and Madoka left standing. I imagine two episodes will be the BIG END BATTLE, so that leaves next episode for...well, I'm not even sure.

Best line of the entire series to date:

"If you feel like dying for this universe, just call us. We'll be waiting!"

That QB is so cute.

Edit: What in the world is up with Sayaka's parents? I assume they are who Madoka talked to on the intercom in an earlier episode when she was looking for Sayaka. Whoever it was, they didn't seem very concerned that Sayaka hadn't come home "last night". Now, in this episode, Sayaka is dead, but business like usual at school. No mention of her missing (which would probably be the logical conclusion of normal parents) or anything. I mean, what the hell. :/

Last edited by creb; 2011-03-03 at 21:49.
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Old 2011-03-03, 21:46   Link #97
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noooo Kyoko, it was cute watching you eat.

Sayaka kind of beat her up really easily...but it seems like Kyoko wasn't really trying to beat her. And Kyoko wanted to go out on her own terms instead of eventually turning into a witch or getting killed directly by one.

Kyubei as most expected, is 'evil' as far as humans are concerned.wi

Madoka's wish:

Kyubei: What's your wish?
Madoka: I wish...that you had a heart.
Kyubei: *tear rolls down cheek*

*Kyubei explodes*
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Old 2011-03-03, 21:47   Link #98
FlavorOfLife
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Heh Bokurano reference with the chairs.

Kyubei's script seems to have a problem. He knows that explaining the soulgem and puppet body would turn most off. The definition of lying is "To convey a false image or impression". By not giving full information, he would fufil the conditions of the definition hence his statement "we do not know what is lying" would then be false unless their translation devices does not include the dictionary definition of lying.

As a side note, Kyubei realy should take over a tv station, explain everything and see who think's it's a good idea to die so they can volunteer as their life is worth about 1 in 6 billion. Surely those who agree with him would be first in line?

Episode itself: What do wheels have to do with witch Sayaka. Kyoko really fufilled her death flag. Homura using a pink soul gem: Homura=Madoka++, Homura holding Madoka's gem++. It may end up as the way for Madoka to access MS power without using a wish
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Old 2011-03-03, 21:48   Link #99
SagaraSouske
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DasDingus View Post
I feel like everybody is glossing over a line of Kyuubey's that I found very telling. He says "There are six-billion-nine-hundred-million of you right now and your population is growing by ten every four seconds. So why do you make such a big fuss over the loss of just one of you?" To us as humans, the loss of an individual we knew and cared about is very heart-wrenching but to Kyuubey it's just one of billions.

If any of you have read the Ender's Game series Kyuubey reminds me a lot of the Hive Queen. Her species has a shared consciousness between one queen and thousands or more workers. The workers have no mind of their own, they're just glorified appendages of the queen. Maybe Kyuubey's race is the same way. His body is clearly expendable as we saw last episode.

So while we're treating the death of magical girls as a huge tragedy Kyuubey sees it as no more sorrowful an event than we see scratching off dead skin as. The population is growing faster than the girls are dying, and we can generate sustainable energy for the universe. When only the population as a whole matters and the individual is expendable then what Kyuubey is doing is completely justified.

That said, I don't totally buy it when he says they don't understand human emotions or values. Obviously he has some idea of what makes humans tick because he is quite adept at manipulating humans. Now it's entirely possible that his mental communication is like the hive queen's in that he has an idea in his head and he sends it to a human and the human fills that in with what is familiar to her. He wants to convey the happiness and glory that comes with being a magical girl and the humans interpret that as they will. He's unable to lie because he always says what he's thinking. It's just that he only "throws" the thoughts he chooses to throw. There's no lying, only imperfect exchange of information.
Hmm, the buggers and hive queen in Ender's universe is totally different from QB. Once they came to understand human's individuality and value systems. they forgive our attempted genocide and made peace. QB despite learning from humans and studied us to have a limited understanding continue to practice their human sacrifice. The hive mind had a respect for other specie's morals and choose to co-exist. QB don't give a damn and just does what ever he wants under the justification of having different values and saving the universe.
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Old 2011-03-03, 21:49   Link #100
sa547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThereminVox View Post
Spoiler for ep09:
You mean Energizer batteries. Or the human batteries in The Matrix. Or...

I'm reminded of the reason why the Aztecs were conducting human sacrifices for the sun god: they did so out of the fear that if they stop performing their bloody ritual, they would face certain catastrophe once the sun does not move.

http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/prehisto...cacrifice.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_s..._Aztec_culture
http://atheism.about.com/od/aztecgod...atiuhAztec.htm

So, in a sense, QB was doing all this manipulation and chicanery, making girls into MGs, which in turn (should they fail in their role) may become Witches, and in this cycle of killing between MGs and Witches it ensured him a supply of Grief Seeds for him to consume and to keep the universe in balance.
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Last edited by sa547; 2011-03-03 at 22:22.
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