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View Poll Results: Madoka Magica - Episode 09 Rating
Perfect 10 91 52.00%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 36 20.57%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 29 16.57%
7 out of 10 : Good 12 6.86%
6 out of 10 : Average 4 2.29%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.57%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 1.14%
Voters: 175. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-03-04, 06:27   Link #221
Solace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taofd View Post
Except when your sad, but happy, or angry, but sad, or when you're super angry at someone for doing something stupid, but find it hilarious all at the same time?

All emotions are not on a single bipolar spectrum. Humans possess the capacity to feel many different things all at the same time. Some one would argue, that is partly what makes us such complex beings .
Hehe, I have been that, and more. I wasn't trying to be all encompassing though, hence why I said general. Perhaps it would be better to say "expressed"? Like when you cry and people ask you if you're sad and you tell them no, that you're actually happy. While we're all bubbling with emotions (hopefully), we generally express them in simple ways. Complex beings indeed.
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Old 2011-03-04, 06:36   Link #222
DRAGUN H.E.X.
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Send a message via Yahoo to DRAGUN H.E.X.
so QB is an alien? what?
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Old 2011-03-04, 06:36   Link #223
Sheba
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You know, the last scene brought to me the mental image of QB and Homura playing chess.

QB: "I have your king in check. By the next move, it will be checkmate. What can you do, Homura?"

Walpurgis night being the actual mate.

and when talking about Kyoko's demise benefitting him, "Just as QBed!"
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Old 2011-03-04, 06:37   Link #224
zarqu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRAGUN H.E.X. View Post
so QB is an alien? what?
I think he stated it pretty clearly, yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
The way I see it, the MG system was _engineered_. A purposeful creation as means to an end. Not "found".
I think this is a fascinating idea and would make the show more interesting, in a way. Fits the style of this show and how it has been.. "reinventing" the genre.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
and when talking about Kyoko's demise benefitting him, "Just as QBed!"
Of course, we are talking about it benefitting the entire Universe. Who could possibly walk a way from that ?
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Old 2011-03-04, 06:50   Link #225
akei1
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There's a lot of debate on whether QB is lying or not. This is because there are actually many definitions of "lie", and people are just considering one of those definitions.

Here are just a select couple definitions of "lie" that I pulled from dictionary.reference.com.

–noun
something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture: His flashy car was a lie that deceived no one.

–verb (used without object)
to express what is false; convey a false impression.

Notice that to lie, it does not always have to involve an untruthful statement. It could just mean to convey a false impression e.g. deception.
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Old 2011-03-04, 06:55   Link #226
Iromaru
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QB being an alien is no big deal.

Cthulhu mythos is based on alien life forms.
EVA is based on alien life forms.
Sailor Moon is based on alien life forms.
Nanoha is based on alien life forms.
Etc.

And we don't even know if he was telling the truth.

But at this point I really have no idea how this series will end.
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Old 2011-03-04, 06:55   Link #227
zarqu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akei1 View Post
Notice that to lie, it does not always have to involve an untruthful statement. It could just mean to convey a false impression e.g. deception.
I don't know what definition of dictionary.reference.com QB is using, but he seems to be contradicting himself, then, when saying: "We do not understand the concept of deception."

All the more reasons to take what he says with a grain of salt.
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Old 2011-03-04, 06:57   Link #228
Wakan Tanka
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QB is going to save the Universe...no kidding
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Old 2011-03-04, 07:00   Link #229
Edict
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taofd
...propensity to manipulate others, but isn't it just as likely as him simply not understanding human emotions?
if that were the explanation, the instances where Kyubei materialises when a girl is in a state of duress and thereby more prone to compulsion would have to be explained exclusive to these factors. It is possible for happenstance to be such an explanation but lacks credibility either for plot integrity or the array of circumstances that (as discussed) could be more readily interpreted otherwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawnbringerz
QB know what human emotions is and utilize it to push girls to make contracts, however he doesn't have human emotions nor understand the value us human uphold.
if Kyubei knows how to utilise emotions it follows a conceptual understanding, or in the least an understanding of its relevance, is in place. Having access to those forms of information as a type of input is not necessary to determine Kyubei's culpability - not if it understands the array of related concepts and how these both determine and contribute to the human spectrum of awareness.
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Old 2011-03-04, 07:06   Link #230
ThereminVox
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Is it just me, or is the swinging blade above Homura's head in her war room getting lower and lower? Durr... What Do You Mean It's Not Symbolic?

Which brings up another question (besides why do you even have one of those?!), is it supposed to represent the pendulum on a clock? I know Waperschnizel Night is kinda the end game, but do you think she also has a literal time limit to change the past?
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Old 2011-03-04, 07:07   Link #231
omimon
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Fans not happy about aliens? This is Indian Jones all over again.
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Old 2011-03-04, 07:10   Link #232
SeijiSensei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa547 View Post
You mean Energizer batteries. Or the human batteries in The Matrix.
Spoiler for QB's motive?:
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Old 2011-03-04, 07:18   Link #233
Solace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
The boundaries between "science-fiction" and "fantasy" often seem more clouded to me in anime than in Western media.
Eastern media products seem to be more philosophical and open ended compared to Western media which seems to focus more on literal concepts and defined results.
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Old 2011-03-04, 07:25   Link #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edict View Post
if Kyubei knows how to utilise emotions it follows a conceptual understanding, or in the least an understanding of its relevance, is in place. Having access to those forms of information as a type of input is not necessary to determine Kyubei's culpability - not if it understands the array of related concepts and how these both determine and contribute to the human spectrum of awareness.
This is a problem with the English word "understand" -- it has more than one meaning.

He understand (as in "know") human emotions, so he could use it as a selling point to make Sayaka save a person she loves.

He doesn't understand (as in "have it in his thought process") human emotions, so he finds it silly for human to care for the loss of his/her loved ones.


When he says he doesn't understand human emotions, it's the second one, not the first one.
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Old 2011-03-04, 07:29   Link #235
zarqu
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In what episode did he state that he doesn't understand human emotions ? I just remember him saying: "We have difficulty understanding your human values."

It's possible I have missed it, but I don't feel like going through all of the 9 episodes.
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Old 2011-03-04, 07:33   Link #236
Sageblink
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Guys, I Just grab the sub version and you're already 12 pages far from me.

Spoiler for Episode 9:
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Old 2011-03-04, 07:44   Link #237
Mentar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taofd View Post
Isn't that simply the way you are seeing it? You are interpreting QB's behavior as an individual who understands emotion, but you are making a fundamental attribution error? You attribute it to his "evilness" or his propensity to manipulate others, but isn't it just as likely as him simply not understanding human emotions? Is it so difficult to imagine what it would be like without emotions? It would be like a race of machines driven by data and ruthless efficiency. And how exactly did QB exploit Sayaka in relation to her "Kamijou crises"?
Are you serious, or are you trying to troll me?

QB says goodbye to Madoka and Sayaka, telling that he needs to find other girls willing to contract with him. Sayaka goes to visit Kamijou. Unlike all other visits before, Kamijou has a nervous breakdown, queueing the line "there's no hope for my hand, save magic or a miracle". Sayaka reacts and yells "magic and miracles exist!" and directly sees QB waiting at the window.

It would take more than just blind naivete to believe that this was coincidental.

Quote:
What he told Madoka was true. As QB sees it, Madoka is the ticket to producing a huge amount of energy. If this helps save the universe, then is his statement really false?
Oh, it's true? And you know that how? *lol*

QB has been playing with the girls' emotions like a piano. He knows exactly what to say to deflect their suspicions, what to say to encourage them to contract, and what to do to place them in danger to coerce them into contracting. It's quite possible that he doesn't FEEL or SHARE human emotions. But it's totally obvious that he UNDERSTANDS them, and knows how to use them to his advantage.

Seriously, trusting ANY word out of the mouth of a guy who has openly admitted to deceiving young girls and sending them to their deaths for his own gains is of breathtaking stupidity. Why are we even discussing something like this?

But hey, if you seriously think that QB is an alien worried about the universe's entropy, please be my guest by all means ... just tell me your real name, credit card number, expiry date and safety code first - I want to send you some money!
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Old 2011-03-04, 07:45   Link #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taofd View Post
This is because most human beings, especially in the western world value the notion of "informed consent". All information of value is put on the table for inspection before we make a decision or become contractually obligated, etc. However there are many cultures, even on this planet who do not feel the same way. They will think, oh sucks to be you for not being as intelligent as I am, or sucks to be you for not looking at the small text. You'll learn from this experience and grow smarter!
I DARE you to name a culture that believe it is acceptable to deceive people.

I was born and raised in Asia for the first half of my life, and spent the 2nd half in the Western Culture. But neither side ever said it was okay to lie and cheat. Please, tell me, which country or culture on this planet could you name, that consider informed consent unnecessary in a contract?

Because Asians take contracts very seriously, I can assure you.
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Old 2011-03-04, 08:03   Link #239
jeroz
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I'm pretty certain that the entropy theory will not get mentioned ever again in the last 3 episodes. It's most likely a reference to Urobuchi's belief that "everything will turn out the worst, if follows the natural progression" like what we are seeing right now. In some way, madoka's power will fulfill the energy quota and at the same time change the course of the story. It's not like in TTGL where Madoka will turn all gar and fix the entropy problem herself in the universe.

people need to stop worrying about the sci-fi elements. Urobuchi never explains the origin nor the shape of Saya in that work, and it's still great. Cthulhu can still have magical elements while being alien. The key here is, Kyubey cares nothing about the feelings of the magical girls involved. I remember someone said before how Kyubey already treats his subjects better than the Great Old Ones do to theirs, and here we have a cthulhu reference. As far as I know, people at Nitro+ love their lovecraft references.

Now the question is, (assuming Kyubey tells the whole truth), is the energy harvested during the transformation or after Kyubey eats the seed?
'we need this emotional energy but we don't have it, apparently it can be found in a race called humans. So, how do we harvest it? I know, drawing them out in physical forms'
Knowing how emotion works doesn't mean that you understand why they work like that.
Kyubey is known to twist his words to create false hope/impressions for the listeners. He doesn't clarify his sayings, so you always has to take what he said with a grain of salt. However that doesn't mean that you should outright ignore everything he says.

At the moment though, the ending could change in a flip of a coin. For all we know, the universe might be doomed the moment madoka chose the red ribbon instead of the yellow one.
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Old 2011-03-04, 08:13   Link #240
zarqu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeroz View Post
is the energy harvested during the transformation or after Kyubey eats the seed?
I think this is the most crucial question. If indeed there's energy in the seeds QB consumes, it could very well be argued that QB is only doing this to prolong his (or his species) survival.

If this is the case, our girls need to wake up soon. I don't know how Madoka could come to that conclusion, though, given the lack of information and QB's tendency to be... secretive. She already sees QB as an enemy, so there's hope.

Quote:
At the moment though, the ending could change in a flip of a coin.
Have to agree with this. Kinda makes speculation not only hard but somewhat fruitless, too.
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