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Old 2011-03-03, 16:51   Link #1021
Thess
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irisiel View Post
Still, it makes little difference, as Alto and Sheryl clearly had enough time to become comfortable with each other. Just not long enough for Alto convince Sheryl that he isn't doing it out of pity. And Sheryl is stubborn when she's made up her mind, so he has his work cut out for him.
I don't think Sheryl's issues are just that. I think she knew they had no future together because she was going to die in the battle or as soon after it. She was aware of that. She was sparing Alto's feelings, IMO, trying to push him away to clear her mind and his. Alto was the one who wanted to see her and explained to her (his feelings for her, according to the scriptwriter). Who sought her out before battle to the point, she was the one to put an end of it for his sake (and Ranka's). There's absolutely no insecurity, no nothing after the crisis is averted to show that was her disease (and not Alto's feelings for Ranka) what troubled her.

As contrast with this movie scene
Spoiler for movie spoilers:


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Originally Posted by Irisiel View Post
One theory held forward by AruRan shippers is that starry-eyed Alto (Pfft! Even Sheryl realised that he treated her like anyone else) only put up with Sheryl because she's famous/rich/pretty, but if that was the case, wouldn't there have been a little bragging (remember, Alto is a bit sensitive about being seen as a man at this point in the series), especially since Michael tries to encourage it? All Alto had to do is to snap back a comment about at least he doesn't have to fail getting dates with a hundred women before getting one, without even implicating Sheryl.
Yeah. That makes no sense, considering Ranka's the next new sensation while Sheryl's popularity wanes a lot by the time they connect later. He actually respects her as a professional, not quite because she's a star. They share this professional connection, even from different worlds.

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Originally Posted by Irisiel View Post
Considering how he acted afterwards with the earring (he was on duty, and shouldn't have left Quarter [which is why Michael and Ozma are cross with him before sortie], yet he did, which is why I think Sheryl ranks higher than his duty and Frontier, because he repeatedly breaks both promises and duties if it's for Sheryl, even this early in the series),
Good catch!
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Old 2011-03-03, 19:37   Link #1022
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Originally Posted by Irisiel View Post
Apparently it was Gallia IV (I went back and checked), however, their target was floating in space, completely mashed up, so I still say that they had to waste time flying around until they made visual contact (and yes, even Earth's orbit is a huge place to search, and the location Ozma and the others were after was floating in the bits and pieces left from Gallia IV, so radar would be useless). Considering that the valkyries had to sortie to find it, I think they had to visually search for it through the rubble, which would take time, so yeah, I say at least a month. And I can say that they were lucky to find it in just a month; even in orbit, it could take years to find specific space waste (which is what that ship was after the planet destruction). And they were even lucky that files were still filed into their places after a whole planet went boom (and that paper is apparently indestructible; wouldn't heat or something affect the books they found?).

Still, it makes little difference, as Alto and Sheryl clearly had enough time to become comfortable with each other. Just not long enough for Alto convince Sheryl that he isn't doing it out of pity. And Sheryl is stubborn when she's made up her mind, so he has his work cut out for him.
Good enough for me. One month is plenty of time. Four months would have been a bit much, anyway, with Frontiers supply and Vajra problem.

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Originally Posted by Irisiel View Post
Anyway, one interesting aspect of Star Date and Bye-Bye Sheryl is how Alto reacts to the date after the date.

One theory held forward by AruRan shippers is that starry-eyed Alto (Pfft! Even Sheryl realised that he treated her like anyone else) only put up with Sheryl because she's famous/rich/pretty, but if that was the case, wouldn't there have been a little bragging (remember, Alto is a bit sensitive about being seen as a man at this point in the series), especially since Michael tries to encourage it? All Alto had to do is to snap back a comment about at least he doesn't have to fail getting dates with a hundred women before getting one, without even implicating Sheryl.

Instead he's embarrassed and wants the matter dropped. Then we move to the next scene, in which Nanase has dragged out the boys to congratulate Ranka:
Nanase is overly excited and hyper and OMG! This is so great!
Luca mirrors Nanase because of his crush.
Michael is supportive and happy for Ranka.
Alto is the least interested of the lot.

Then Alto lies and says that he was alone at the mall, which is easily glossed over, except that lies takes more brain power than truth. So which scenario do you find believable:
A) Alto is savvy about show biz and knows that if it's known that Sheryl "Galactic Fairy" Nome and Alto "Sakura-hime" Saotome dated, there would be scandals, and his quiet life would be disrupted and Sheryl, who is still at the whim of the paparazzi and fans, have to counter it.
B) Alto doesn't want Ranka to know that he went on a date with Sheryl.
C) Alto has a small attraction towards Sheryl, but knows that she'll soon leave and doesn't want to start the media circus such a rumour would cause for a relationship that wont go anywhere.
D) Any combination of the above?

Considering how he acted afterwards with the earring (he was on duty, and shouldn't have left Quarter [which is why Michael and Ozma are cross with him before sortie], yet he did, which is why I think Sheryl ranks higher than his duty and Frontier, because he repeatedly breaks both promises and duties if it's for Sheryl, even this early in the series), I almost have to say A and C. He couldn't tell Michael, who told him that he saw Sheryl with him, that he wasn't with Sheryl, but he'll be damned if he'll admit it to anyone else.

But he also wont expand too much energy on denying it either. If Ranka admitted to seeing Sheryl with him, then he'd probably tell her that Sheryl was with him.

It's really fascinating going back like this and pick up on the little things Alto does. Especially when you realise that he must have a reason for doing them (heck, we eat because we're hungry; Alto lies because he knows that the consequences will get out of proportion; Luca fanboys over Ranka because Nanase fangirls).
As almost always, I agree with your character analysis 100% here.

Altos reasons for doing things is one of the topics I most like to discuss, because he wasn't as upfront about his motives as other protagonists. I found his characterization subtle and elegant. Sadly it was so subtle and elegant that a great many people missed it and therefore found him boring, dense and indecisive. Which, IMO, is far from the true Alto.

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And one of these days I'm going to do that mammoth essay on Frontier and post it because I have a thousand little things to point out and discuss.
I really, honestly look forward to this. When the day arrives, please post/link it here and send me a PM. Personally, I think you do the best character and story analysis I've read about the show. And you beat some fierce competition ( Swampstorm, Crusader, ghostlightning ) in that field.
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Old 2011-03-03, 23:14   Link #1023
darkplataform
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More elaborate answer: Paraphrasing a direct translation of Klan's words "Is that Alto's love?" The subject of Alto's love is never clarified, but personally I think it's love of Frontier that's foremost in his thoughts in that scene (since he offers to kill a friend if they threaten Frontier).
Actually...... There is an interview with Yoshino saying that Klan words are totally about his love to Frontier and doesn't refers by any means to an specific person.

Now, Im sorry but That I saw in the macross.cn forum more than 1year ago and there is no way I'll go in the search on that specific post made by Mzw.


In other news, totally off-topic, Thess was asking for this:

Quote:
[ 2010.04.16 ]F魂の豪華入会特典「F魂オリジナルトランプ」トランプ全柄とパッケージを大公開!!!
マクロス史上初のオリジナルトランプの全絵柄がついに公開!
江端里沙先生 第2期新規描き下ろし!すべてのカードがF魂完全限定オリジナル!!
家族と!F魂フレンズと!F魂トランプでマクロ「スピード」でもどうでしょう!

今すぐF魂に入会して、GETしちゃおう☆

こんなトランプめったにないんだからね!!



※その他のサービス内容は、第1期のサービス内容が適用となります。
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Old 2011-03-04, 00:14   Link #1024
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Oh God THANK YOU! How cute!

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkplataform View Post
Actually...... There is an interview with Yoshino saying that Klan words are totally about his love to Frontier and doesn't refers by any means to an specific person.
I thought so. But what does Yoshino knows! He isn't the scriptwriter or anything. Oh wait a minute, oops.

That's what I thought too, in context, because Klan was pushing Alto to Sheryl, never once assumed he was "into Ranka."
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Old 2011-03-04, 02:02   Link #1025
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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
Just gonna throw this out there, but does anyone realize that Ranka's a girl? Alto's lie was most likely also to protect Ranka's feelings, as she expresses "someone like me could never", she has self-esteem issues. If she knew he dated Sheryl Nome, she might not show the same strength as Ep4. As her friend, he protected her from knowing the truth.

I do notice this as a possibility considering that Sheryl and Ranka are not friends until after Ep7. So, before Sheryl became her inspiration and friend besides Alto, he protected her. After all, Ranka, in Ep1-3, shows to have self-esteem issues.
Considering that he in the very same episode, just a scene earlier, have no idea why Michael asks him about Ranka in context of his date with Sheryl, um, I don't think he thought that far ahead.

If Alto wanted to encourage Ranka, then his reaction to her getting scouted should have been more than a "meh" in my opinion. (Seriously, did you see the expectant looks on everyone else when he didn't fawn over Ranka like they did?)

Plus, he was pretty pissed with Ozma (in On Your Marks) for keeping things from Ranka for Ranka's own good. I don't think Alto would play the same card.

You know, using Alto's words, one can see him projecting his own issues onto Ranka ("If it were me, I'd want to know the truth!" [On Your Marks] "Why not just ignore parents and siblings altogether? They wouldn't understand you even if you told them." [Bye-Bye Sheryl]).

Don't get me wrong, he'll encourage Ranka when needed, but lying just to spare her feelings, feelings he doesn't even know she has, is probably not one of them. Considering that he gives her a ticket to Sheryl's concert soon afterwards (even Michael goes "Idiot." when he does that).

The only thing I can say about Alto and Ranka's relationship at this point is that he wants her to make her own decisions and follow her dreams, but that also sounds suspiciously like Alto projecting his own family issues onto her.
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Old 2011-03-04, 02:07   Link #1026
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You forgot "Klan confesses to Michael". Was that not a funny bit too?
That doesn't matter. Both are established couple in Macross/have feelings for each others. The love confession will come sooner or later.

Barely on topic, I wonder what are the other characters suits.

Alto is King of Spades, Sheryl's Queen of Spades, Michel is the Jack/Knave of spades. Ranka is both Jokers. I see Sheryl's symbol as the Ace of Hearts. Ranka's i!plug as the Ace of Diamonds, etc.

As a Tarot geek (and how the things transfer: spades = swords, diamonds = pentacles/coins, hearts = cups, clubs = wands), I think the symbolism fit them pretty well, even if they are incidental.

The King of Swords (equivalent to the King of Spades) & the Queen.
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Old 2011-03-04, 07:34   Link #1027
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Yes, but he looks quite upset when Ranka asks him about his "shopping trip". As I recall, this is after he gives her the ticket. He looks quite uncomfortable. His "lie" seems to take a toll on him. Plus, we also see him in Ep20 doing this same "guilt trip" by reaching out to her and saying "Ranka, I--" right before she's gone. It's easy to see that Alto has a hard time lying and feels the pressure of the spotlight yet again. This must lead him to pressure Ranka into things she obviously doesn't really want to do: like in Ep20, sing when her emotions are destroyed.

I agree that it is possible Alto was pushing his own family issues onto her, but I'm thinking that his reason for this was that ever hurtful spotlight being directed at him: the entire "Ranka fanclub" looking to him for him to be infatuated with her plus his lying bringing her eyes to him. He quit acting promptly because he hated his father pushing everything on him. He views the pressure of lying to a girl that is his friend to be the same. So, in that context, I will agree that it is possible he projected his family issues into her.

Then again, in the same episode, he expresses that he wants her to talk to him. The reason he is probably not excited about Ranka's being scouted is because he wanted to aspire it (which he did but didn't realize, except in the movie). After all, it was him and not Sheryl who inspired her to sing in Ep5, and also him that she sang for in Ep3. I leave this note as a possibility. Because Alto doesn't exactly like what career she chose (singing/acting/etc.). But of course, his acting career scarred his life in a way.

Sorry for the ramble and that off-topic subject, but I was addressing a possibility. We have to compare Alto's reactions to that of a normal man, to analyze him perfectly, after all; he's based on a human male with life struggles. All characters are based on real people's emotions/actions and must be analyzed as such.
I don't think that his reaction in episode 20 is the effect of his lie back in episode 6. Considering what was going on in episode 20, I doubt that was even on his mind. Also isn't his reaction more of Ranka finding him and Sheryl together on the rooftop. Ranka also doesn't give him anytime to explain, so there is no way of knowing whether or not he would lie. Also the only thing Alto and by extension Sheryl knew about Ranka singing was that it could stop the Vajra, which were currently in Frontier wrecking havoc and killing people (due to Ranka's over reaction mind you), to them Ranka was just behaving selfishly and was refusing to do her job.

Ranka expressed that she just wanted someone to listen to her sing in those episodes, she even says so herself. Also it was both Alto and Sheryl that pushed Ranka to follow her dreams, which Ranka said in the beginning was just to get people to listen to her sing. She didn't start making Alto her sole reason for singing until much later on. Also I don't think that Alto really cares about the career that she chose, after all he is the one who constantly reminds her that it is her dream at the end of it.

On top of that I don't think that Alto is that averse to acting or any other performance because he is also a stunt pilot; a performer in his own right, whose job is to wow the audience, just as ordered by the client (too bad no one told Ranka that).
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Old 2011-03-04, 16:56   Link #1028
Thess
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Originally Posted by Irisiel View Post
You know, using Alto's words, one can see him projecting his own issues onto Ranka ("If it were me, I'd want to know the truth!" [On Your Marks] "Why not just ignore parents and siblings altogether? They wouldn't understand you even if you told them." [Bye-Bye Sheryl]).

Don't get me wrong, he'll encourage Ranka when needed, but lying just to spare her feelings, feelings he doesn't even know she has, is probably not one of them. Considering that he gives her a ticket to Sheryl's concert soon afterwards (even Michael goes "Idiot." when he does that).
I have to agree 100% in the projection issues Alto has with Ranka's ordeal. It might seem like bonding, but he's not actually listening to her, but actually watching his own distorted reflection.

It's a bit contrasting this and his way to connect with Sheryl, due to their duties they have, their sense of shared responsibility, etc.

Ranka on the other hand, idealizes both Alto and Sheryl (crush + role model). At least in the beginning (or during most of the TV series). When she slaps Sheryl, for instance, I don't THINK she mean anything mean, but she has not way to deal with a crisis than mimicking her (never mind it's uncalled for due to the circumstances).

Sheryl's issues have more linked to her own issues to express her inner feelings, like she wears an armor to not burden others for her sake.

EDIT: Read this. Established couple it seems, it was planned ahead the theater release.

ALSO good news for Macross Seven triangle. It seems it was 'resolved' by that little bit of info.
Spoiler for If you didn't want to click:
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Old 2011-03-04, 20:05   Link #1029
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ALSO good news for Macross Seven triangle. It seems it was 'resolved' by that little bit of info.
Spoiler for If you didn't want to click:
Spoiler for Basara:
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Old 2011-03-04, 20:24   Link #1030
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Spoiler for Basara:
Spoiler for lols MACROSS 7 + F:
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Old 2011-03-05, 01:30   Link #1031
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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
Alto needed to get over his issues and make peace with his family, his past and everything he was running for. Ranka doesn't provide him anything but a false fantasy, an escape.
Sheryl was the one who provided him that. He grew in maturity thanks to their relationship. To all the sacrifices they made for each other's sake.

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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
Ranka idolizes Sheryl because she's been her aspiration for longer than even Alto. Ranka has a crush on Alto.
Having a "crush" is just that: idealization. Ranka created a perfect image in her mind of Alto that didn't match the reality. She faced reality in episodes 20 and 21.

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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
But despite probably even knowing this, Alto gives her inspiration. His dream of flying in Ep3 gives her the strength feel power when singing. It is also what makes her start singing.
And Sheryl inspired and encouraged both of them in the beginning. Seems as if the triangle should have been Ranka-> Sheryl <- Alto going by your standards.

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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
In a way, Alto should love her more than Sheryl because she does something for him rather than wanting to help him gain something. It is because Ranka sang for Alto on his birthday that the Zentradi put down their weapons, not Sheryl.
So...? Sheryl gave him the sky (and she didn't mind that Ranka took her place as long he was happy, she could have suspended the trip). Sheryl gave him her precious family heirloom (often regarded as a promise of MARRIAGE in traditional Japanese families like Alto's was and he took it, unless I'm mistaken. Although I doubt Sheryl knew that XD ).

Sheryl would have sung if she wasn't sick. She sings to Alto (and for Frontier) when she's agonizing to protect everything. While Ranka was playing (unwillingly) Sharon Apple to Alto's Isamu, she was pulling a Myung.

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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
Also, when Alto can help Sheryl, like in Ep12 when she falls down the stairs of the ship, he doesn't. Instead, he waits until she's already in bed to make a move. Whilst, when Ranka falls to her knees, Alto is at her side in an instant. His priorities are completely 360 when it comes to Ranka.
Sheryl by episode 12 is still affronting and playing strong. Was this fall a super-world crashing one? No. Same with Ranka, superficial stuff like that? Easy to play. It doesn't demand a sacrifice from him. I see a 11-years-old-looking girl like Ranka (I'm choosing that age since it's Mao Nome's age and Ranka's body/features are... like that) is tripping down and the first instinct is go help the defenseless child. While a mature woman? She can stand on her own.

The bottom line is. To whom Alto makes the sacrifices that matter?

Ranka, in her hour of need, what did Alto want to do for her (until Sheryl persuaded him)? Nuke her. For his love to Frontier.

Sheryl, in her hour of need, what did Alto want to do for her (until Sheryl, again, tells him off)? Stay by her side. Always. Telling her it's okay to stop singing, being fully aware that's helping Frontier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
Otherwise, even in Ep20, Alto protects Ranka when a blast lands on the ground by them, even knowing Sheryl might be injured or killed. Then he looks rather upset by the fact Sheryl is in danger, because his desire to save Ranka overrode his reasons for protecting Sheryl.
Hmmm.... His desire to save Frontier and do his duty did that. Sheryl knows that they have to do their jobs. She knows and encourages him to continue. Alto (at this point) begins trusting Sheryl as an equal. While Ranka is completely zooned out and babysat by the two of them (until she tried to break it off in episode 21, sadly it works badly... because she was captured and had to be rescued by them). Had his "desire to save Ranka" overode him beyond his duty? He would have traveled with her in episode 21.

That shows that, while she had a place in his heart, as soon she stopped helping Frontier, his overprotection ended. Ranka realized this, I think. He never quite listened to her song, but recognized Sheryl's. Even in the infamous "heart scene" in the sky in episode 19 that Ranka misinterpreted.

Who was the person in Alto's thoughts?

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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
Ranka's reasons for slapping Sheryl were very mirrored to Sheryl's slap on Ranka in Ep20. Sheryl's emotions, at this point were, "my duty is over, death awaits me."'
Eh, Sheryl thought that because she believed there was no cure and was hitting Heaven's door. If Ranka had told her there was, she wouldn't be depressed at all. There wouldn't be need of a slap. Slapping a dying person doesn't exactly portray you in a positive light. Period. That scene was dumb as hell (very badly written. It was so un-Ranka like) and helped to solidify a lot of the Ranka hate in places like this (again, I don't blame Ranka, I blame the way she was given the idiot ball so often).

Agonizing because you are ACTUALLY dying from an incurable disease after you did your duty successfully =/= being emo over a "broken heart" and wishing to die to deny to do your goddamn duty

Anyway, the triangle was already resolved. *shrugs*
Spoiler for spoilers:
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Old 2011-03-05, 04:59   Link #1032
magnuskn
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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
In a way, Alto should love her more than Sheryl because she does something for him rather than wanting to help him gain something.
No. Alto should love someone more than the other, because he feels that way.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
It is because Ranka sang for Alto on his birthday that the Zentradi put down their weapons, not Sheryl.
Never mind that Sheryl was in bed with a high fever and was simply physically incapable of doing what she had wanted to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
Also, when Alto can help Sheryl, like in Ep12 when she falls down the stairs of the ship, he doesn't. Instead, he waits until she's already in bed to make a move. Whilst, when Ranka falls to her knees, Alto is at her side in an instant.
Because he was standing before Ranka when she fell down to her knees, while he was quite far away when Sheryl collapsed on the stairway? And immediately afterwards the situtation got hostile, so he had no chance to go to her?

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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
Otherwise, even in Ep20, Alto protects Ranka when a blast lands on the ground by them, even knowing Sheryl might be injured or killed. Then he looks rather upset by the fact Sheryl is in danger, because his desire to save Ranka overrode his reasons for protecting Sheryl.
LOL? Do you have any sense of location? They were simply standing apart for a moment ( and a few seconds earlier Ranka was still standing with Sheryl ). After the blast, they were separated and Sheryl sent Alto away to do something about the Vajra.

While, y'know, Ranka was incapable of even showing any emotion about her best friend just having been wounded. Instead thinking about Altos "warm hand".

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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
Ranka's reasons for slapping Sheryl were very mirrored to Sheryl's slap on Ranka in Ep20. Sheryl's emotions, at this point were, "my duty is over, death awaits me." Ranka didn't want her to just so easily give up on life, as - despite the fact Ranka had left with the Vajra and chosen to sacrifice herself - she held her life dear. She thanks Alto and Sheryl in her own way. But her response to Sheryl's silent "I'm ready to die" was "idiot! You inspired so many people to live, even me! And we want you to live!" Just like on the rooftop that day in Ep20, Alto has to help too, but this time it is not Sheryl and Alto making Ranka sing, it is Ranka and Alto making Sheryl live. The role is a complete reversal and is, once again, it's own symbolism.
Yes,it symbolizes that Ranka slaps terminally ill people. Instead of, y'know, taking to them.
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Old 2011-03-05, 06:09   Link #1033
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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
She was a lot worse off in Ep24, yet still sang. She probably would've pulled the same stunt.
Uh, no? She was not running a high fever in episode 24. What the hell?

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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
What about in his house when she comes home? In Ep22, he just lets her fall and yells to her. He doesn't try to catch nor move to do such, even help her. What about that moment, huh?
She collapses, again, meters away from him and in about 1 second. We hear him yelling for her and I think we can reasonably suspect that he was at her side one second later. The show cut to commercials for a reason.

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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
Actually, the whole scene is a play of the camera, when you look at it. In a split second, Ranka and Sheryl are no longer next to each other and she's back with Alto. The whole scene is more a play of the camera rather than anyone's true fault. But then again, that leads to more symbolic gestures that Alto wanted to be as close to Ranka as possible, as Ep17's "protect Ranka" runs through him from Ozma.
Whatever floats your boat. If Sheryl hadn't sent him away, he'd have stayed with her.

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Actually, she isn't given but one screen shot in the entire time. And she does show concern, as Alto has to pull her out of it and make her follow him. But the "hand" scene is more a reflection of her past than anything else. I think it is the one and only clue that leads us up to Ep21's "goodbye" scene/Ep23's memory lane scene. Otherwise, I would say that her leaving the Frontier in that episode was selfish and stupid, but she was chasing a memory. And it just happened to be the first time she held physical hands with Alto. Every other scene has him picking her up, hugging her close, or plain using a machine to save her; so this was a first for her.
If you call "not even calling out Nanases name" nor even thinking about her ( hey, we got her inner thoughts and all in the scene ) "concern", that's up to you. I'll give you that she probably was in shock, but all in all it was a pretty horrid reaction to your best friend getting injured in front of your eyes.

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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
You say that, but a lot of movies do the same thing. It symbolized a belief in the other person. And Sheryl was beyond talking at this point. Alto had tried episodes ago, but Sheryl had made up her mind that she was ready to die. Ranka couldn't accept that her friend would give up so easily as to say "my duty is over". It wasn't a duty to Ranka to save her friend, it was what she wanted.
Yeah, but Ranka didn't even try to talk sense into Sheryl. She just slapped her after some perfunctionary words. And Sheryl was clearly not having the same type of hysterical breakdown which required her to slap Ranka back then.


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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
You see, Ranka could've done like Sheryl back in Ep22.

Sheryl ignored the fact that Ranka left the Frontier and took advantage of her alone time with Alto. She didn't, until Ep24, enforce that Alto go save Ranka. Up until that point, she was taking advantage of her absence. And she expresses it too: "I knew it all along. But just for a little while longer." She took advantage of his weakness, losing a connection that might prove to end the war: Ranka; and embraced it. Then she says "rescue Ranka-chan" in Ep24. The whole 2-4 episodes he could've saved her before she was brainwashed, Sheryl said nothing. She let it come to this end. And Sheryl is more aware of Ranka's feelings than Alto, which makes it her fault.
That's some wild spinning of facts.

First off, Alto had no idea where Ranka was. So him leaving to search for her on his own is illusory.

Secondly, he made the promise to stay by Sheryls side on his own. Sheryl didn't push him to it, she actively pushed him away from her, up until the point where Alto gave his promise of his own volition.

That takes pretty much care of your maligning of Sheryl. She had no motivation to free him to search for Ranka, since he had no possible avenue to find her.

And you know something? He wouldn't have gone anyway, because he loves Sheryl and wanted to take care of her. And he loves Frontier and wants to protect it. Ranka running away and leaving Frontiers people to die did not sit well with him, indeed it led to him planning to fold-bomb Ranka in her face.
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Old 2011-03-05, 06:24   Link #1034
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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
Naw, it's a combination of things, actually. Ranka is the one who inspires him to join the S.M.S. (to fight period), Sheryl is what inspires him to continue onward after she leaves. Remember that Alto says he wanted to protect Ranka when he joined the S.M.S. So, Ranka became his one inspiration to even get close to Sheryl. Had he not been a warrior, his attention to Sheryl wouldn't have been that strong and he would've lost interest due to them being in two different worlds. So, thank Ranka for being his reason to fight, to see the true face of war.
Did you watch the same series as I did? Star Date happened before Alto's first real mission as a soldier. Also, doesn't Alto, at one point, mention that he used Ranka as an excuse but now he couldn't any-more because Frontier needed him to protect it.

And Sheryl is his inspiration, if anyone was at all, because he completely flips out when she starts quitting life (including nagging her into going to the Heart-in-the-Sky concert, and when he lands, the first thing he does is go to Sheryl and tries to convince her that the stage is her home), while when Ranka does so, he simply orders Ranka to sing.

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Must stop you right there. Ranka's ideal image of him was Ep1, when she calls him a "woman" and that image is ripped apart by Alto's male voice reaching her ears. Up until then, she had a crush on a "woman"!
If Ranka is lesbian, she would hardly be the ideal girl for Alto, would she? I mean, he has issues being a woman on stage, never-mind in a relationship.

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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
Ranka was unaware of what was happening because she's been so sheltered. The only boy she's ever been around is either Michael or Luca up until she met Alto. Both boys had their own love and didn't view her that way, nor did she view them that way. Alto is her first "boy", her first romantic love. So in Ep20 and 21, the rooftop scene draws confusion from her. She's never been taught to notice the signs of whether he loved her or not. Ozma also puts this to shame by laying the responsibility of Ranka's very life and heart in Alto's hands, asking him to take care of her. In a way, he just approved of Alto marrying Ranka. But as a dense bastard, he doesn't realize until after Ep21 just what Ozma was saying. In Ep22, he's given this responsibility thrown back at him when Ozma asks him who he "spreads his wings for", as the one woman he'd been deemed absolutely responsible for left him flat.
Yeah, no. If Ozma meant "marry my little sister" he was so unprofessional that it hurts. No superior officer have the rights to order their soldiers to marry their sisters. It's not Alto's fault that he simply followed his orders to the letter.

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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
In this way, one can blame Alto for the issues with Ranka. As Ranka was protected her whole life on the Frontier from seeing a romantic side of boys. Ozma was overprotective of her before she suddenly started to defy him and bloom. So, the whole heartbreaking scene is Alto's fault for not realizing she was unaware of the world of "dating."
AHAHAHAHA! No. Alto is the only boy in the series who wont shelter Ranka (On Your Marks) because he decides it's for her own good. If anything, it is the rest of SMS's, Nanase's and the rest of Ranka's fans' faults that she doesn't know social interactions from coordinated flight stunts probably decided by Michael because Michael is the leader of Alto's group.

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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
Actually, no. Sheryl did not give him the sky. He happened to be on the list to escort her, as a military service. She allowed him to go flying in that sky, but she did not give him the sky.
Sheryl did give him his dream. Or tried to. If she hadn't explicitly requested for Alto to be her escort, he wouldn't have been considered as a member of SMS rather than NUNS (Sheryl's mission was military and not mercenary in nature, and even then, she's not part of SMS even if it was mercenary). And she did so with the intent of letting Alto fly in the sky.

That her infection and the Zents happened was simply out of her control, but her intent was still there.

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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
Sheryl gave Alto her earring, which is a family heirloom; but he's always trying to return it to her. But she gives it to him as a means for him to return back alive in multiple episodes. In this case, it became a bargaining chip for him to live, and not a marriage proposal or a romantic reasoning.
"I will borrow your luck!" It's not like he doesn't accept returning back to Sheryl.

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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
Sheryl tried to sing but Alto made her stay put. She doesn't actually sing to Alto when singing Diamond Crevasse. If you look at her lyrics and the emotions on her face, she's singing about people she loved who died, like her mother and father, even childhood friends. Her songs don't really become for Alto or the Frontier until Northern Cross or Yousei; songs like those.
Context is everything. In Bye-Bye Sheryl, after she's lent her earring to Alto, she sings a song which contains "It's a long, long goodbye" as Quarter moves away from Frontier. Then she explicitly, in the same concert, requests that everyone should sing with her for those people fighting for Galaxy (Like Quarter and Alto).

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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
Don't see where you get that. A defenseless child? No. Alto often looks at Ranka in that "true light" of noticing she is in fact a "woman." But either way, falling down stairs or onto the floor can still injure someone even more, yet Alto doesn't move, even after she's on the floor. But if Ranka falls, he rushes to her side, even if she is a "defenseless child" in his mind, his reactions to her is more of following that "responsibility" that Ozma has given him, and he likes this responsibility.
Alto wants to protect Frontier, until Ranka leaves, she was the face of that, and an excuse, because he's been so vocal about hating Frontier, that his pride is in the way of him realising that Frontier is his real motive.

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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
No, I disagree. Alto's expression towards promising to kill her is sad when he talks to Klan. His true intentions are hidden in that episode. Look at his face when Klan asks him if "that is his love?" He looks sad after telling her he'd kill Ranka.
Alto loves Frontier, and now is willing to kill a friend to protect Frontier. Meanwhile, to protect Frontier, his girlfriend is dying of a terminal illness and refusing to take medication. On top of that, Frontier is so damaged right now that food supplies are rationed, fresh produce rare, there's funerals every day and Alto must lead a whole unit in inferior VFs against Vajra (as captain, Maruyama and Jun are his responsibilities), possibly to their deaths. Oh, and his father is getting sicker and sicker, and his brother still wont acknowledge his flying.

Alto has plenty of reasons to be sad, because all that he loves is falling apart.

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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
I agree that Sheryl did tell him to leave her at the end. Her last response to his agreement was "love the girl who is likely to survive." Alto, at that point, telling her to "stop singing", was thinking of a lot. Notice that she's in his mother's room, Ranka's gone, the war is at their doorstep, so he is viewing Sheryl and his mother as the same person: a dying woman he cannot save. Had he not been a young child when his mother died, he would've said the same thing. His promise to remain by her side was rushed and pained. He knew she could not give up her duty, just like his mother couldn't stop taking care of him, and so, he made that promise to remain at her side. Look at it from a distance and remember his childhood and you will see that this is a plausible thought at the whole situation.
Or he simply figured out that he can't keep hiding behind the excuses Ranka provided for him. Alto's hate of Frontier is because of the sky, and he loves the sky because of his mother. That he gets an opportunity to be there for the person he loves who is dying is something he would grab with both hands, because he already knows how much support is needed.

While shades of his mother is there, he must care deeply for Sheryl for him to accept and stay with her rather than reject her to protect himself from feeling the hurt of his mother's death over again.

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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
Sheryl is often seen worrying about Alto despite that duty. Her selfish behavior in these moments made me get a wrong impression of her. I mean, right after Ranka leaves, Sheryl does not request that he go after her or kill her, just takes advantage of this "break" in Ranka's impression on his heart.
WTF? "Takes advantage" of Ranka leaving?

...

You are aware that Sheryl feels that she's taking advantage of Alto's responsible nature, but that Alto in no way agrees, staying with Sheryl of his own free will? Unlike Ranka, who was foisted onto Alto by Alto's superiors, the promises that keeps Alto and Sheryl together are between Alto and Sheryl.

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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
To say that Ranka is babysat by the two of them doesn't work. Alto doesn't want anyone but him to protect Ranka. She doesn't get a chance to allow Brera near her as a protector. So, Sheryl is the only other person he allows near her in a protective manner. Michael? Not so much. Klan? She's practically non-existent in that matter. Luca? He's zoned out completely. Ozma? Well, he's barely around after Ep15 and is later suspected of treason. Brera? A rival in the protection area...? Nope. I'm not gonna center on how many people see that Alto and Brera's rivalry is in love. But Alto doesn't allow others to protect her, so of course it's see as babysitting.
Alto didn't mind Michael bringing Ranka to Gallia IV. Plus, Sheryl looks after Ranka on her time (like offering to have Ranka on that show in High School Queen), Sheryl doesn't need Alto's permission to help Ranka. And Alto doesn't mind sharing the responsibility as long as it isn't Brera, who is a suspicious character.

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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
Ranka, in Ep21, is probably just tired of being the "center of attention." Honestly, she feels the same as Alto did when he quit acting: "everyone wants me to do something I hate." Ultimately, Ranka hated singing for the Frontier because of how they destroyed her songs, like Aimo. The song was meant to be a loving song, not a war song; yet they made her change it. Her songs were of love, even if for Alto, and also of life. So, when they make her a "weapon," she starts to feel like Alto in his acting career. Then she feels like her being alive is "needed" for a purpose that involves war and death (something she hates, violence in particular) and that their reasons are "selfish." Her reasoning in Ep21 was to sacrifice herself and make those "needed" reasons nullified. You could say she followed in Alto's footsteps, betraying his family just as she betrayed the Frontier. And Alto gave her this reasoning by portraying those "emotions" onto her. It's all his fault.
Alto doesn't hate acting. He just hates the gender identity crisis it gave him (he had no problems with stunt as Shinn, but refused a female role no matter what), but there is also another problem to consider:

He dreams about flying in a true, blue sky. Actors cannot just jump into a VF or Ex-Gear without education (as Sheryl amply showed us at two times). So he decides to educate himself in flying instead.

To him, his family betrayed him when they refused to acknowledge his dreams, so he left them, even though if they had been patient, he could have returned to acting once his dream of flying was accomplished.

The thing is, when Sheryl quits the stage, she does so without a dream replacing her previous one, and to Alto, that's inconceivable. He only quit because he had a dream that needed pursuing, and he quit as cold turkey as he could (he's annoyed when Sheryl brings show biz to school, but at the same time, he becomes drunk on the stage energy in the first episode, and when the opportunity to act or stunt presents itself, he is more than ready as long as it isn't a female role). He even speaks of the euphoric experience of being on stage in that rooftop scene.

Ranka, by contrast, quit just because Alto and Sheryl stood on that rooftop. She did not follow in Alto's footsteps.

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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
Yes, Alto put his duty over her in this sense, but consider his grief over Michael in this but also the fact: Brera is there, a Vajra is there, and he just held a gun up to her face, not to mention that up until that point, it seemed like a normal conversation. To him, the end scene here was not the end of his overprotection but rather the light he viewed her in: a "defenseless" and "needy" girl. She became an "independent" woman whom chose her own path whether for selfish reasons or not, he didn't know; but he saw that she broke away from him, and this is a girl whom earlier, in Ep13, said she liked his protection. So it's obvious to him that something is earth-shatteringly wrong! But, he keeps to himself his thoughts on the matter and then is seen not only staring at her poster but thinking about her in general. His thoughts remain on her and still try to decipher her reasons even as Mishima tells him she's an enemy. This just proves how strong his bond with her was.
I would also think about the friend who betrayed home and country to run away with the alien monsters who killed my best friend, and expected me to come with her. I'd even say that I'd kill her to make sure that everyone and everything else that I love is safe. Especially when the authority figures who don't run away without giving any reasons tells me that it's a very high possibility that I must.

Doesn't mean that it's love or a deep bond. Alto knows that something is wrong, and that something is that some of Frontier's best defences against Vajra just skipped town (Brera's VF, Quarter, Ranka's song), and all he knows is that Ranka is idealistically running to the enemy and that Ozma doesn't have the responsibility of adults ("Is that how adults are supposed to behave?!" "I'm not an adult, I'm a man!")

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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
And, to be honest, Alto doesn't hear Ranka's songs because most of the time, he hears them during war. But Ep3, 5, 13, 15, 17, and 25; he hears her songs. Most of the time, he doesn't hear either of their songs, as he's in battle at the time of their concerts. Which is how you can connect music to every Macross series due to how the enemy reacts to them.
Yet he stops and listens to Sheryl's songs. Fights to get them back when she quits.

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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
By the way, I just realized something watching Ep19 back. Sheryl believes the heart in the sky too. Look at her sad expression at Ranka. It's no shocker that both of them believed it was his confession of love. But also, Sheryl didn't know what sort of stunt he would pull, nor did Ranka. Perhaps it should've just been a bunch of hearts or a star with Ranka's name, but a heart shot through is a perfect sign of cupid. So I can understand both their confusion at his performance.
Sheryl is sad because Ranka represents everything that she lost. A world she believes that she'll never enter again. Ranka now has Grace, the fans and the synchronised flying.

Yet it is to Sheryl Alto runs as soon as the Ex-Gear is off.

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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
Yes, I get that; but Ranka was trying to inspire her to stand despite this, just as she had before. Ranka was trying to get Sheryl to admit her feelings outright to Alto just as she had. I can understand that. Since they are all friends and connected, she wanted to help a friend in need fight in her final moments to live. Just like if she had cancer. That kind of support is what Sheryl is shocked for and emotional about when she accepts Ranka and Alto's extended hands. Even at her deathbed, they need her, and that helps her feel alive.
Ranka hit a terminally ill and dying person for dying. That's bad enough. The fact that Sheryl is prematurely dying because she took on Ranka's duties while Ranka ran away? Makes is so bad that there's no way to positively spin this.

Did you know that advanced brain cancer causes strange reactions the rest of the body? Feeling more pain, more bruising, nausea and a bunch of other things? Heck, with the heavy medication Sheryl was on until she took up Ranka's duties, she should also have a lot of side effects going on. Weakened skeletal structure and a bunch of other things. I know, I've been with two people who've died from brain cancer, from the time that they lived normal lives, to the time that they couldn't move without assistance. And you do not hit them, not ever.

Especially not when you can cure them instead. That scene is just so bad it's unbelievable.
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Old 2011-03-05, 06:49   Link #1035
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Ok, I will honestly say I usually don't reply to these things, but... I got irked and now I have to debate...

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Actually, no. Sheryl did not give him the sky. He happened to be on the list to escort her, as a military service. She allowed him to go flying in that sky, but she did not give him the sky.
Yes, yes she totally did. She OFFERED a chance to go to a planet that had a sky to fly in. Sure he could have been hired through SMS for that mission, but Sheryl picked and ASKED him if he would like to go....

y'know, for his birthday. Best present ever? I'd say so. Because honestly there was a fantastically rare chance he would ever be able to otherwise. Why else do you think he sent someone in his place to go see Ranka and eat bitter cookies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveMeKags
Sheryl gave Alto her earring, which is a family heirloom; but he's always trying to return it to her. But she gives it to him as a means for him to return back alive in multiple episodes. In this case, it became a bargaining chip for him to live, and not a marriage proposal or a romantic reasoning.
While watching the series, I akin the earring to a specific episode from Ruroni Kenshin. Kaoru gave Kenshin her favorite hair tie/scarf to bring back, as a reason for him to come back alive.

So she wasn't just shoving the earring at him, it was a "I care about you enough to give you something precious of mine to motivate you to come back alive"

and you know, Alto go the hint. Why else would he look so determined after taking it in the series and promising to come back with it. I don't know why you devalued it to a bargaining chip when there are romantic ties/reasoning to the gesture.

I'm pretty sure you can see countless more examples of something like that in movies or other anime (usually of the war/fighting/romance kind).



EDIT: Ah~ Irisiel beat me to it :<

Last edited by MichiNekoChan; 2011-03-05 at 06:49. Reason: my timing sucks.
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Old 2011-03-05, 07:04   Link #1036
Father Hentai
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Did you watch the same series as I did? Star Date happened before Alto's first real mission as a soldier. Also, doesn't Alto, at one point, mention that he used Ranka as an excuse but now he couldn't any-more because Frontier needed him to protect it.
Sorry, but since Alto joined SMS he had a Military Rank. As far as I know he is Ranked as Ensign or Lieutnant during his duty for S.M.S. But isn't it lame from a guy to admit that he used a girl only for his personal goals? Not to mention that he needs about 20 episodes to express his needs.

Quote:
Alto loves Frontier, and now is willing to kill a friend to protect Frontier. Meanwhile, to protect Frontier, his girlfriend is dying of a terminal illness and refusing to take medication.
Nothing new. Soldiers sometimes have to face an old friend as an enemy and that they are forced to kill each other "to protect" what is important to them.

That is nothing what should surprise someone. More interesting is that he is following an usurper.
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Old 2011-03-05, 07:24   Link #1037
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Sorry, but since Alto joined SMS he had a Military Rank. As far as I know he is Ranked as Ensign or Lieutnant during his duty for S.M.S. But isn't it lame from a guy to admit that he used a girl only for his personal goals? Not to mention that he needs about 20 episodes to express his needs.
Star Date would have happened even if Alto wasn't SMS. It is the following consequences of his stunt flight at the concert in the first episode. What I meant that in the context of Alto/Sheryl, military rank wasn't needed for them to interact, neither was Ranka's presence.

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Nothing new. Soldiers sometimes have to face an old friend as an enemy and that they are forced to kill each other "to protect" what is important to them.

That is nothing what should surprise someone. More interesting is that he is following an usurper.
Well, he doesn't know that he's following an usurper. The only reason why Leon is leader at the moment, is because everyone in charge believes that he should be. It isn't Alto's (or Sheryl's, or Klan's) job to question authority when it seems like the ones in charge are doing everything they can to deal with the current crisis (remember, Alto has no evidence of Leon being evil).

Plus, if Leon hadn't driven Frontier to attack Vajra planet, then Ranka's Do You Remember Love would have been the last song Humantradi heard. (Yes, Leon's scheming indirectly saved the world by having an army between Vajra and the rest of the universe until the misunderstandings could be cleared.)

As much as I hate the guy, Leon was an adequate president for Frontier during the crisis, he just attained that position by evil means, and had bad motives, and did some really questionable things as president, but he tried his best to pull Frontier up from the abyss they had landed in, as he wasn't stupid enough to be evil for the sake of being evil (a trap many wannabe-tyrants fall into the moment they get some power).
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Old 2011-03-05, 07:37   Link #1038
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I was talking about the camera scene before the explosion. The scene shows Ranka and Nanase, along with Sheryl, talking together; then, a second later, we see Ranka by Alto and Sheryl standing with Nanase. That was the play in the camera, really.
It is, in any case, not Alto "wanting to be nearby Ranka", but just where people where standing at the moment. You don't see Alto being "near Ranka" when she talking with other people a few seconds before, do you?

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Gee, my mother fell once... should've I have called out her name or thought about her when my father was there to help her? No. I didn't. Instead, I went where I was needed, to call a hospital. I worried about her, sure; but I went with what needed to be done. I'll also agree that she was probably shocked, and that says a lot. Remember back a few episodes ago when a Vajra was killed and she saw the blood? Her reaction was the same horrid reaction. She's afraid of violence and blood in general. I'm not quite shocked that she looked like that when Nanase was injured.
Apples and oranges. Ranka was right there when the explosion happened. Luca and Alto surely called out for their loved ones. Ranka did not spare a thought for Nanase, as far as anybody could see.

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I'll say it again: SHERYL WAS BEYOND WORDS AT THAT POINT! Alto couldn't talk her out of dying. If Ranka hadn't started the conversation (slapped her or started the speech), then Alto never would've approached her to encourage her to live. It was because Ranka did that Alto came in. Up until that point, he agreed with her resolve to die. But thanks to Ranka, he came in and agreed with her words, wanting Sheryl to live for herself. Because of this, the both of them pulled her out of her illness and back into life.
Uh, bullshit? How was Sheryl "beyond words" in any shape or form? Hey, I just looked at the scene and Ranka doesn't even try to talk to her, her first remedy is to slap Sheryl in the face.


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Yes, he could've done something. He could've seen her feelings and went over the possibilities of reasons why she left. Instead, he worries over Sheryl and the Frontier whilst a big weapon is in the middle of space heading towards the Vajra planet.
He worked with the information he had. Any better sources of information had by that point left the fleet or weren't talking to him.

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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
And Sheryl doesn't help. It's not necessarily her fault for seeing Ranka as a rival in love, even if she isn't; but she mentions nothing of Ranka to Alto the entire time. She doesn't even ask him what he plans to do about her. Up until Ep23 when she hears Alto and Klan talking, she was basically "taking advantage" of the "rival's" absence to gain her own footing (which probably wasn't even needed) and then in Ep24, she finally says something to him about it, requesting he save her.
Woop-di-doo. Sheryl also doesn't have the power to do anything about Ranka, just like Alto. Why would she need to constantly remind him that he is helpless at that time?

And, really, I better do not say what I want to say at this moment about this inane assertion that Sheryl was "taking advantage". But what else can one expect from a Ranka shipper but sour grapes?

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Up until Ep24, however; he was unaware that Sheryl still cared for Ranka and was holding onto that friendship. He was quite shocked when she asked him to save Ranka. His face held that "all of a sudden" kind of expression. After all, for the last few episodes, she was more bent on fighting the girl and possibly killing her, not telling Alto of her feelings or possible reasons for leaving the Frontier. Her reasoning was a permanent guilty towards "selfish" in this matter. If she had mentioned something sooner, perhaps he would've started thinking on Ranka and perhaps understanding her reasons for leaving. But instead, she left him to make the details up himself. It doesn't help when Mishima and Bilrer tell him Ranka is a weapon of the Vajra.

Bull. Shit. Every single sentence. Alto could have thought all day on why Ranka left, he did not have the necessary information to come even near a reasonable conclusion. Why exactly would he torment himself with continuously going over a question which he cannot answer? Alto never was one to go emo over his problems, he always preferred to do something about them. As he cannot here, he rather does something about the problems he is dealing at home.

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Say what you want, but Sheryl should've mentioned Ranka or gotten even his side of the story, but she selfishly worried about only him, the Frontier, and herself (in that order). She completely threw her friend out the window, and that, to me; puts her in my least favorite character book, whilst Ranka was worried about everyone, including Alto and Sheryl, and left to save them all. She's my favorite girl character ever!
Yeah, Sheryl rather spent her last months of life doing good for all the people of Frontier, instead of nagging Alto about something he couldn't change anyway. What terrible person she is! <sarcasm>

Srlsry, but you are truly full of bullshit. You make shit up whenever it suits you, you distort character motivations and you are plainly unreliable as a narrator. I won't waste my time anymore answering your wall-of-text filibusters.
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Old 2011-03-05, 07:56   Link #1039
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Well, he doesn't know that he's following an usurper. The only reason why Leon is leader at the moment, is because everyone in charge believes that he should be. It isn't Alto's (or Sheryl's, or Klan's) job to question authority when it seems like the ones in charge are doing everything they can to deal with the current crisis (remember, Alto has no evidence of Leon being evil).

Plus, if Leon hadn't driven Frontier to attack Vajra planet, then Ranka's Do You Remember Love would have been the last song Humantradi heard. (Yes, Leon's scheming indirectly saved the world by having an army between Vajra and the rest of the universe until the misunderstandings could be cleared.)

As much as I hate the guy, Leon was an adequate president for Frontier during the crisis, he just attained that position by evil means, and had bad motives, and did some really questionable things as president, but he tried his best to pull Frontier up from the abyss they had landed in, as he wasn't stupid enough to be evil for the sake of being evil (a trap many wannabe-tyrants fall into the moment they get some power).
That is not right. Cathy has send a note to all the members of S.M.S.. Now we don't know exactly what exactly was in the note but we can assume that it included much information that was not only about the integration of S.M.S. into the military arms of N.U.N.S..

While allied with Grace Leon himself was part of the coup de grace to and he as well maneuvered Frontier into the situation that they have to confront the Vajra.

The reason why I dislike Leon - "although" he attempts to support Frontier at the end - is that he remembers me of Adolf Hitler with his action. A very charismatic person but foul as well.


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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post

Yeah, Sheryl rather spent her last months of life doing good for all the people of Frontier, instead of nagging Alto about something he couldn't change anyway. What terrible person she is! <sarcasm>

Srlsry, but you are truly full of bullshit. You make shit up whenever it suits you, you distort character motivations and you are plainly unreliable as a narrator. I won't waste my time anymore answering your wall-of-text filibusters.
Sheryl was a bitch before her life drastically changed. All about her life is all about herself "Watashi wa Sheryl Nome". This says much about how self centered she was. The friendly fight with Ranka opened her up that she also has to fight for the love she desires and that at any point another person can take her love. Unless the guy is not so numb.

And on the other side. Please change your tone and be polite. Only because other don't share your opinion does not give anyone the right to use lame words.
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Old 2011-03-05, 08:32   Link #1040
Father Hentai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
I hate to say this, but: tell that to Kawamori! If you look at it in Kawamori's point of view, this is probably meant to show how much belief they have in one another. Like I said before: they wanted her to live for herself. And Alto probably would not have confronted her before Ranka did so. He probably would've NEVER confronted her. But Ranka showing belief in Sheryl and following in her footsteps to encourage a former singer to live (even if not to sing) inspired Alto to try once more to make Sheryl live for herself, not for him or even the Frontier. Even if she DID hit a terminally ill and dying person, she inspired the both of them in the end to live not for each other, but for the sake of living, but also, out of love; they held their hands out to her.

When I first saw this scene, I kept thinking: that's so beautiful. Because, honestly, that kind of friendship, nowadays, is hard to come by.
When Ranka slapped Shery, we had a similar like in episode 20. To that time it was Ranka who was being self centered. In episode 25, Sheryl believed that she has done eveyrthing and that the disease will kill her. As she believes that Ranka is back, she is no longer required. In episode 24 Sheryl already let go of Alto - yes she did - because she does not want him to suffer when the time comes that she passes away. That is why she is saying such words that she is no longer required. What Sheryl maybe did not consider is that she gives both Ranka and Alto the power to fight and to life. A life without the other is out of question. Ranka needs Sheryl as her friend, mentor and rival. Alto needs Sheryl to fight. And Sheryl? She only lost hope to live because there is no cure for the disease she has and Ranka just "magically" moved them to the right place. Not to sing with the head but with the stomach. I won't give much about the slap of a dying person. If someone has seen how melodramatic first-aid-procedures are done in movies or series, then a slap is just nothing.
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