AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Madoka Magica

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2011-03-06, 02:34   Link #1061
MeoTwister5
Komrades of Kitamura Kou
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Where I can learn to be lonely.
Age: 29
Inkyubeytors developing emotions? Troll ending? More like Deus ex Machina.
MeoTwister5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-06, 02:34   Link #1062
CainSonozaki
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Ive been thinking alot about what kyubey says and Reminds me of something else. Part truths that can be perceived as "false", depending on vague context and general words.

Spoiler for speculah:
__________________
"Without love it can't be seen.
With love there will be falsehood.
With falsehood comes belief.
Right now the time where magic advents.
I am Beatrice-sama! Ahaha"
CainSonozaki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-06, 03:12   Link #1063
synaesthetic
blinded by blood
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Oakland, CA
Age: 30
Send a message via AIM to synaesthetic Send a message via Skype™ to synaesthetic
Well, that'd mess things up bigtime. I'm not even sure what would happen to a system that could neither gain nor lose entropy...
__________________
synaesthetic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-06, 04:26   Link #1064
Malkuth
Banned
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: London
Age: 33
Send a message via MSN to Malkuth Send a message via Skype™ to Malkuth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
you want 8 seasons of Madoka?
Not even 8 episodes, especially during the summer
Malkuth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-06, 09:10   Link #1065
CainSonozaki
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
Well, that'd mess things up bigtime. I'm not even sure what would happen to a system that could neither gain nor lose entropy...
What im wondering if Madoka will be the most powerful MS, and in turn most powerful witch, how exactly does kyubey plan on harvesting her grief seed
__________________
"Without love it can't be seen.
With love there will be falsehood.
With falsehood comes belief.
Right now the time where magic advents.
I am Beatrice-sama! Ahaha"
CainSonozaki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-06, 10:21   Link #1066
Jimmy C
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
We're not sure why he's harvesting Grief Seeds yet. But he gets the energy when the Soul Gem shatters. So it's been collected if Madoka's already turned into a witch.
Jimmy C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-07, 00:09   Link #1067
Shadow5YA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Although some would incline to believe this show is thematically skeptical against hopes and dreams, I'm inclined to believe otherwise.

While Homura is often cold, unemotional, and unsympathetic, she still retains some human compassion. Aside from crying in front of Madoka, she still has not resorted to the easiest method to prevent Madoka from becoming a Puella Magi -- killing her while she's human. Even currently while Homura is running out of options, she is still willing to fight alone on Walpurgis Night instead of allowing Madoka to make a contract. She still holds some hope for Madoka to live a happy life.

Despite Kyoko's likely death, she also had a fairly happy ending. She initially wished for people to listen to what her father had to say, but ironically her father didn't listen to what Kyoko wanted to say. However, by the end, she had met Madoka, who listened to what Kyoko had to say without fault, and Sayaka, whom Kyoko saw herself within. In the end she had people who honestly listened to what she had to say. To top it all off, now that her Soul Gem is shattered, she is saved from becoming a Witch herself.
Finally, there is Madoka's well-being herself. While it is true that Sayaka met a miserable fate, Madoka is even more kind and idealistic than Sayaka is. While Sayaka did have people she disliked and made enemies, such as Homura and Kyoko initially, Madoka is kind towards all of the Puella Magi she has been in contact with so far. Madoka is also still relatively unharmed, and still has her loving family. If this series was skeptical of such kindness, Madoka would be even worse off than Sayaka is right now.

However, this does not mean that all hopes and dreams are granted. They require effort, and naivety is punished. Notice how Kyoko earned a friend she could talk to by actually making an effort to talk, but when she just wished for it as a child, she ended up with a dead family. Likewise, Sayaka initially wanted Kyousuke's happiness by healing his arm, but she was a bit hasty and reckless with her wish, got in way over her head, and ended up overwhelmed and became a Witch. She also made no effort to confess her feelings to Kyosuke, which naturally ended up with someone else confessing to him first. She wants Kyosuke's attention, yet in the end she did not make the effort to convey her feelings to him. Meanwhile, Madoka is clearly careful of the consequences of making a contract and has thought it through, even with her kind nature, and she is relatively unharmed because of it.
Shadow5YA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-07, 06:32   Link #1068
Triple_R
Center Attraction
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 33
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
Very good post, Shadow5YA.

As I've argued on the Episode 9 thread, I don't think that this anime is a total rebuking of idealism, but rather is stating that idealism comes at a cost. This is where Madoka Magica differs considerably with many other magical girl anime.

I don't think that this anime is saying that it's wrong to pursue one's hopes and dreams (including altruistic and/or idealistic ones), but rather that people need to be willing to pay a cost for that, even if that cost is simply applying consistent effort, thoughtfulness, and courage.

Sayaka was a nice girl, and a generally good person, but she did show a lack of effort in some areas (i.e. when it came to Kamijo), and a lack of thoughtfulness in other areas.
__________________
Triple_R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-07, 06:59   Link #1069
MeisterBabylon
~ Ping For Effect ~
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: The Golden Throne
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by panzerfan View Post
MeisterBabylon casually mentioned about the stench of Madoff regarding Kyubey, and I do think it is a valid line of consideration...

I am actually not willing to discount Kyubey's work as that of a Ponzi scheme. For that it is entirely possible that Kyubey in fact only pays returns to separate contract holders and not from any genuine power to grant true miracle... rather, the very wish granting comes from the amount of work that the magical girls have put forth or actual genuine "miracles" done by other magical girls. The ROI that Kyubey has tabled cannot be matched by anyone else...

which of course raises the alarm bell of a need for ever-increasing flow of power or deeds by magical girls to maintain this scheme. Those who fell victim will have no recourse.

Generally speaking, the danger from Ponzi scheme occurs from the fact that rational, able and well-off people are the most vulnerable, and they in turn affect their clients who entrust them to make sound decisions for them. The level of charisma... attraction that Kyubey possesses is augmented greatly with existing clients such as that of Mami 'vouching' for the magician actually makes me seriously wonder at the caliber of those that might have fallen under this Ponzi scheme, if Kyubey indeed practices this infamous self-propagating myth.
Just resurrecting this post after all this while. Some parts of the specifics are off, but I feel rather vindicated that it did turn out to be a Ponzi scheme of Thermodynamic proportions.

Now of course what happens from here on out.
__________________

On money: Every man has a price. For everything else, there's MakoCard.
MeisterBabylon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-07, 07:53   Link #1070
taofd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Very good post, Shadow5YA.

As I've argued on the Episode 9 thread, I don't think that this anime is a total rebuking of idealism, but rather is stating that idealism comes at a cost. This is where Madoka Magica differs considerably with many other magical girl anime.

I don't think that this anime is saying that it's wrong to pursue one's hopes and dreams (including altruistic and/or idealistic ones), but rather that people need to be willing to pay a cost for that, even if that cost is simply applying consistent effort, thoughtfulness, and courage.

Sayaka was a nice girl, and a generally good person, but she did show a lack of effort in some areas (i.e. when it came to Kamijo), and a lack of thoughtfulness in other areas.
What makes you say she was lacking? o_O?
taofd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-07, 08:28   Link #1071
Ichijo
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
After watching yesy subs for ep9.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

QBs created a tech to turn emotions into energy that could prevent the heat death of their home and since its useless for them, they found humans.

Human emotions can be turned into more energy than it takes to raise human beings.

They decided to use girls because they are the most emotional.

While studying humans, they discovered magical girls, or at least that human souls have
potential to use magic - ability that allows to violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

They created soul gems - device that brings out abilities to use magic in regular girls and when a soul gem turns into a grief seed, it releases a burst of energy that can be gathered.

But what kind of energy they gather upon release? Emotions, or magic?
Ichijo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-07, 09:52   Link #1072
PzIVf3
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere at Earth
This looks shocking.


So who's the real Madoka?

Last edited by PzIVf3; 2011-03-07 at 10:06.
PzIVf3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-07, 10:14   Link #1073
ruurguy
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by taofd View Post
What makes you say she was lacking? o_O?
Not sure what Triple_R was referring to in particular, but if I had to guess, based on my own perspective:

She made a wish that in my opinion wasn't completely altruistic and not completely thought out. In the elevator in one of the earlier episodes she was wondering if he would thank her, or 'something more', and thinking that she was a terrible person for having such a thought. She seemed to believe that he would at the very least thank her, but his leaving the hospital without letting her know, not getting the will up to confess, hitomi's statement that she would be confessing herself, all added up to sort of breaking Sayaka's will. Some of the later stuff is obviously cause of the reveal of the soul gem and how her body "wasn't real" and that she couldn't love anyone that way. In my view at least Sayaka lacked an accurate idea of the consequences of her wish, which in my opinion, although not everyone agrees was actually tainted by selfish thoughts. Basically, Sayaka "wished for someone else" but really wanted part of that wish to be for her own happiness as well. I think in Madoka's world if you are wishing for someone else it needs to be 100% for them and not anything for yourself. I'm guessing most people, like Sayaka couldn't do that. I'm pretty sure that unless something big came up I couldn't do it for instance.
ruurguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-07, 10:21   Link #1074
scr
my sides are in orbit
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
@PzIVf3
Too bad it's not the long-haired Madoka...
__________________
If there's a Final Fantasy game that I must put my personal seal of disapproval on, it's Crisis Core. I mean, just look at how this Genesis Rhapsodos dude is raping the canon. It's bad. As in, fanfiction bad.
scr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-07, 10:34   Link #1075
Triple_R
Center Attraction
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 33
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
Quote:
Originally Posted by taofd View Post
What makes you say she was lacking? o_O?
I hate to say much here, because there's a lot to like about Sayaka, imo. She was a splendidly nice girl with a warm and friendly and admirable personality. In the beginning of this anime, she was also a very emotionally well-adjusted young person (which is what makes her fall that much more sad and tragic). Even with her fall, she still might be my favorite character in this entire anime.

However, she does have at least two key flaws:

1. When it comes to romance, she tries to accomplish everything in a roundabout way, trying to achieve that romance without being the one to have to make the first real move. She never confessed her feelings to Kamijo. She clearly was deeply in love with him, but tried to gain mutual love from him through earning gratitude, rather than through the usual means of a confession.

2. She had a tendency to jump to conclusions, and never really re-think much of anything. First impressions are everything to Sayaka, and die very hard if at all. We see this in how she approaches Homura and Kyoko through out the series. This is Sayaka's chief "blind spot", which ultimately hindered her.


In most magical girl animes, Sayaka's flaws here would be no big deals at all. In fact, in some cases they'd be non-factors and possibly even helpful. But in this anime, they severely tripped her up.
__________________
Triple_R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-07, 11:35   Link #1076
MaiNoKen
◕ ‿‿ ◕
*Scanlator
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Neo-Venezia, Planet Aqua (Mars)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PzIVf3
This looks shocking.
When and where are those pictures and interview posted?
Anyway... since you have not posted the synopsis of the pictures, this is what I can make out of it:

1) Episode 10 will have important revelations - it will make you change how you think about Homura.
2) You may want to re-watch 1-10 before 11 and 12, and some of the foreshadowing will become very obvious.
3) The title of the last picture is - Madoka telling Madoka "I want to help you"...

So what new s**tstorm is brewing x_X?
MaiNoKen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-07, 11:43   Link #1077
Triple_R
Center Attraction
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 33
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaiNoKen View Post
When and where are those pictures and interview posted?
Anyway... since you have not posted the synopsis of the pictures, this is what I can make out of it:

1) Episode 10 will have important revelations - it will make you change how you think about Homura.
2) You may want to re-watch 1-10 before 11 and 12, and some of the foreshadowing will become very obvious.
3) The title of the last picture is - Madoka telling Madoka "I want to help you"...

So what new s**tstorm is brewing x_X?
My guess: The Archer Theory (i.e. Homura = future Madoka) will be confirmed. That would fit beautifully with the three points you laid out here. If you re-watch the first few episodes of Madoka Magica with the "Archer Theory: Confirmed" idea in mind, a lot of scenes will kind of jump out at you more. Especially in the very first episode, imo.

While some people (including myself) have seriously considered the Archer Theory beforehand, it's probably only seriously held by relatively few people (I myself have wavered on it). So having it confirmed may change how a lot of people view Homura.
__________________
Triple_R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-07, 11:45   Link #1078
Jimmy C
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
1) Well, it's been one revelation after another since ep6, so having no revelations would've been the really surprising thing.
2) Good thing there's a whole week available for a rewatch.
3) That had better not a shapeshifted Kyubei in disguise...
Jimmy C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-07, 11:46   Link #1079
BaKaBaKaOtaKu
Stupidity is Bliss.
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: In Hancock's Heart
Dang.. I really don't like the idea of homura as madoka DX
__________________
www.gifreducer.com/upld/gen/IXzHGD/32-nodither.gif
Faberry
Quinn and Rachel
BaKaBaKaOtaKu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-03-07, 12:18   Link #1080
MaiNoKen
◕ ‿‿ ◕
*Scanlator
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Neo-Venezia, Planet Aqua (Mars)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R
The Archer Theory
I do favor that possibility. Of course, Gen has a knack in throwing curve balls and change ups. Nothing is assured unless you see the answer (and that is major charisma of the series).

With the identity and secrets of Homura revealed, the story is ready for the final showdown. Episode 10 is the natural point to do that.

Now... how would the story itself end is completely another story. So Homura = Madoka, QB, or whatever, then so what? The grand conflict between QB against everyone else must now close next (and that kind of depends who Homura really is herself).
MaiNoKen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
madoka magica

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 17:34.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.