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Old 2011-03-06, 14:25   Link #721
Deconstructor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taofd View Post
The issue I have with deconstructor, is that there is NO evidence (and rather, evidence for quite the contrary) of QB having evil intent. However, he just wants to insist that QB is evil because of the acts he is doing. Claiming that QB has evil intent because his actions are evil is a logical fallacy and circular in argument. What I have issue with is not if someone's definition of evil doesn't correspond to my own, but rather the logic one uses to arrive to that conclusion is fundamentally flawed.
The logic most people use is as follows:
Kyubey wants Puella Magi to turn into witches.
The only way seen so far for Puella Magi to turn into a witch is to feel extreme despair.
Therefore, Kyubey wants Puella Magi to feel extreme despair.

Wanting people to feel extreme despair falls under my category of evil. The only thing that can qualify as "evidence" to you is Kyubey himself admitting that he is evil. Which will never happen, because Kyubey has no emotions.
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Old 2011-03-06, 14:38   Link #722
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Keep in mind that negativity is the (possible) catalysator for the procedure, however using too much magic without cleansing the SG is the primary way to turn into a witch. I kept thinking about the scene where Sayaka turned into a witch, but I believe once it was tainted enough by having used magic, even the smallest physical impact on it such as a tear was able to shatter the SG.

I don't deny your point, of course, since great negativity can be a natural cause for an irritated mind and thus incomprehendable actions, such as overusing magic out of frustration. Though again, Sayaka's actions were also partly because Kyubei told her that you could somehow numb out pain if you wanted, that itself requires the usage of magic if you take advantage of that feature; to just go on a rampage without conserving magic.
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Old 2011-03-08, 03:26   Link #723
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Quote:
Originally Posted by applejuice View Post

Manga confirmed that Kyuube is fairy. (not devil, witch or whatever.
The thing doesn't change is, he is still bitch.
Putting this back out there.

If QB presents himself as a fairy and then in an other instance as an alien,I have a hard time seeing how he isn't lying in one of those,saying there's fairies on other planets is pushing it.

Unless manga canon is different from anime canon.
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Old 2011-03-08, 03:48   Link #724
Jaden
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Hmm, I think he lies, I have a few guesses.

ep9 post: http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...60#post3522160

That's the meaning of "incubator". Whether QB is doing this himself, or he's a familiar of the main villain, or there's really an alien civilization backing him up, he's using people to produce magic. Continue until the peak of magical power is observed, then collect data and specimens. He's made it quite clear that he has no morals. In the scope of the universe, what's a few worlds destroyed if we can obtain the power to bend natural law?

Also he lied in episode 1 about being in trouble. Playing the wounded ferret and using telepathy to lure in Madoka. He is probably the most scary kind of alien invader, using Earth for experimentation without anyone even noticing...until it'll be too late to save it. If there will be a happy ending, it'll be when Madoka has her GAR moment, destroying the witch queen and then finding QB's soul gem. Might be a naive hope though
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Old 2011-03-08, 13:31   Link #725
Lord of Fire
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Originally Posted by totoum View Post
Putting this back out there.

If QB presents himself as a fairy and then in an other instance as an alien,I have a hard time seeing how he isn't lying in one of those,saying there's fairies on other planets is pushing it.

Unless manga canon is different from anime canon.
From what I understand, the manga story largely follows that of the anime, but has some different details, this apparently being one of them. Basically, one should look only at one source for information, and not use any of the others. You could say the manga serves as an alternate telling of the Madoka story in the anime.
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Old 2011-03-08, 18:08   Link #726
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So Kyubey has been slowly waiting for the other magical girls to die before the Walpurgis night, so that Homura doesn't have anyone else to rely on besides Madoka, who she doesn't want to become a magical girl. Kyubey has alot of interest in getting Madoka to become a magical girl so in the future she might become the strongest witch possible and we are all goners. Pretty sneaky there Kyubey..
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Old 2011-03-09, 08:56   Link #727
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Quote:
Originally Posted by totoum View Post
Unless manga canon is different from anime canon.
The manga-ka mentioned that the comic will follow the anime only in the broadest sense, and may actually end up VERY different from the main series, a la Eureka Seven.
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Old 2011-03-09, 09:08   Link #728
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Yet other say the manga is developed straight from Gen's scripts, so it can't be that different.
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Old 2011-03-09, 09:24   Link #729
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I read somewhere that Shinbo said that Kyubei was supposed to be moe and kawaii right at the beginning eps but somehow the animation lead got the (whole?) script and they ended up making Kyubei scary right at the beginning.
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Old 2011-03-09, 09:38   Link #730
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Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
Yet other say the manga is developed straight from Gen's scripts, so it can't be that different.
The differences are minor, and the two (anime and manga) were developed together. Given that the anime will be done before the last volume is released, there's really no reason to make anything radically different.

Now the spinoff version that the image of Madoka and Kyubeys silhouette is from...well, that may or not be directly related. I guess it depends on how the anime wraps things up.
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Old 2011-03-10, 01:32   Link #731
henwy
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So far, i haven't seen anything which comes close to convincing me that kyubey is evil (as opposed to likely having a blue and orange morality http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...OrangeMorality). I'm not sure there's even any real deception involved since he's under no compunction to reveal the horrible truths he has. He seems to truly not comprehend why the girls would find the idea of having their souls put into soul gems nor why turning into a witch for the good of the universe surviving is a bad thing. If he were truly evil, he wouldn't have told them either of these facts. There's nothing which would force him to and it would only make his job of forming contracts easier to never reveal them. Instead, he seems to loose the information as a form of exasperation, not understanding why any of this would be a problem and finding the girls to be functionally illogical.

Assuming that Kyubey is telling the truth about entropy and its solution, I think his species' actions are pretty justifiable. It comes down to that old utilitarian argument of the greatest good for the greatest number. In this case, he even gets the consent of the subject, though most certainly don't know exactly what they're getting themselves into. It makes you wonder if that consent is a mandatory necessity, or simply one of the self-imposed rules that the aliens play by. I certainly think there's at least a good chance it's the latter given that they seem to have avoided many tactics which would increase their chances for success. While the contracts are obviously important, they don't seem to be willing to go to ANY lengths to achieve them. Consider threats, hostages, etc.
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Old 2011-03-10, 05:16   Link #732
applejuice
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Here is comic's versions interpretation of Kyuube's trueself;

BEFORE;

"he is kawaii mascot!"






.












.


AFTER:

"NO SHIT HE IS ALTIMA DEVIL"
More news here.
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Old 2011-03-10, 19:57   Link #733
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Is it just me or did Kyubei fuck himself? If Homura can't save Madoka (however that's meant), time will be reset. Entropy plan fail. If Homura can save her, entropy plan fail. Now his only function is to screw up Madoka's and everyone's life, unless there's more to him than has been shown. Well, I wouldn't be surprised.
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Old 2011-03-10, 20:11   Link #734
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It doesn't fully matter to him either way. He has stated that he has gathered more than enough energy from the planet already.

I think the way QB sees it.

He will always win this time loop no matter what. If Homura dies than time will go on and he will win, eventually.
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Old 2011-03-10, 21:26   Link #735
ThereminVox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanish View Post
Is it just me or did Kyubei fuck himself? If Homura can't save Madoka (however that's meant), time will be reset. Entropy plan fail. If Homura can save her, entropy plan fail. Now his only function is to screw up Madoka's and everyone's life, unless there's more to him than has been shown. Well, I wouldn't be surprised.
Spoiler for Kyubey:
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Old 2011-03-10, 21:28   Link #736
Village Idiot
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Originally Posted by ThereminVox View Post
Spoiler for Kyubey:
Or Kyubey's ultimate plan is to maintain the time loops, each time collecting the energy of their transformation into Witches.
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Old 2011-03-10, 21:34   Link #737
ThereminVox
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Or Kyubey's ultimate plan is to maintain the time loops, each time collecting the energy of their transformation into Witches.
Oh, it's certainly possible. But that would be quite the convoluted "gotcha".
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Old 2011-03-10, 21:36   Link #738
henwy
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That would certainly tell us a lot about whether this whole magical girl system is something created by the Kyubey aliens or if it's some sort of natural law. Some people have proposed that the whole wish thing is a scam, and that the aliens use their advanced technology to provide the wishes just to artificially increase the girls' hope/happiness/energy. After all, most of the wishes so far are not beyond the realm of tech since it's mostly healing/mind control.

This time looping thing is completely different though. Unless the hypothesis of kyubey wanting a timeloop is true (which would be unexpected and odd based on his reactions to homura and her power so far) it means that the wish is out of the hands of the aliens. There's actually some sort of universal 'equivalent exchange' mechanism a la fullmetal alchemist. Trigger the system and a wish is granted in exchange for an equivalent amount of despair eventually along with a buncha angst energy as a side effect. It begins to make you wonder if there are any actual limitations to the system. What if a girl wished that kyubey's alien race had never discovered earth?
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Old 2011-03-10, 21:56   Link #739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henwy View Post
That would certainly tell us a lot about whether this whole magical girl system is something created by the Kyubey aliens or if it's some sort of natural law. Some people have proposed that the whole wish thing is a scam, and that the aliens use their advanced technology to provide the wishes just to artificially increase the girls' hope/happiness/energy. After all, most of the wishes so far are not beyond the realm of tech since it's mostly healing/mind control.

This time looping thing is completely different though. Unless the hypothesis of kyubey wanting a timeloop is true (which would be unexpected and odd based on his reactions to homura and her power so far) it means that the wish is out of the hands of the aliens. There's actually some sort of universal 'equivalent exchange' mechanism a la fullmetal alchemist. Trigger the system and a wish is granted in exchange for an equivalent amount of despair eventually along with a buncha angst energy as a side effect. It begins to make you wonder if there are any actual limitations to the system. What if a girl wished that kyubey's alien race had never discovered earth?
Anything is possible with magic, and this is now a distinct possibility. Also with Ep 10, there are strong suggestions that QB uses the power of the mahou shoujo to realize their wishes.
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Old 2011-03-10, 23:25   Link #740
Sekirei07
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QB wanted the time loop to happen. Think about this:

In the original time line. QB fails at getting Madoka to turn into the ultimate witch and thus getting her energy. He used Homura as a chance to get time to repeat and allow Madoka to turn into a Witch.

In a sense Homura has played right into QB's hand even better than originally planed. Sayaka became a Witch and Madoka in various tellings became a Witch.

Ultimately in the end it seems QB wins. Even if Homura survives WPN and Madoka doesn't become a MG, so long as QB exists then his chance will always exist.

That is of course until Madoka finishes puberty...
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