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View Poll Results: Who’s Under the Mask?
Madara 104 32.91%
Madara’s Son 14 4.43%
Madara’s Clone 30 9.49%
Madara’s Ghost/Soul/Poltergeist given shape... 33 10.44%
Obito 59 18.67%
Obito’s Body, but not really Obito... 55 17.41%
Someone else’s body (not Obito’s)... 21 6.65%
Zetsu’s Love Child... 23 7.28%
Tobirama/Sarutobi/or anyone with a 'tobi' in their name... 16 5.06%
Bruce Wayne or other… 69 21.84%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 316. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-03-10, 10:47   Link #401
naruske
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I know this is completely irrelevant to this page, but I was thinking about the coffin that Kabuto showed Madara that we didn't see. I'm beginning to think that the body in the coffin is Madara's actual body since he did state that he is a mere shell of his former self. Maybe I'm thinking too hard. What do you guys think?
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Old 2011-03-10, 11:12   Link #402
Fran~
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I've thinked several things about that...

the last thing i thought was that Madara isn't Madara but an Uchiha... it could be Shisui, Sasuke's dad, etc... and the coffin is THE real Madara. But that would leave zillions of plotholes.

I also thought in your post as a possibility too.

There is also the chance that the coffin could be some hax ninja, why not rikuudo senin?.

It has to be something that Madara would really fear.
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Old 2011-03-10, 12:41   Link #403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cael View Post
'He goes by' is not the same as 'he is'. Even though it's very much accepted that he is in some way Madara, it's still not proven what exactly that is. We've seen before how Tobi bends the truth and sometimes straight up lies. Zetsu calls him Tobi, and since we don't yet know all the details regarding the outcome of Madara's fight with Shodai, I don't think Tobi should be referred to as Madara until it's poven. But that's just me.

Yes, he has shown the ability to use Izanagi, however I don't think he has used Izanagi outside of his fight with Konan that we have seen. As you said, he took damage from Torune, if he was using Izanagi this wouldn't have happened. Also he was moderately wounded in his fight against the fourth. Again Izanagi was not used, or this would have been prevented.

I agree except the part about mixing.

Apart from the rin'negan, I haven't seen anything to indicate he is getting stronger. He uses the same two moves and has been for at least the last 16 years. The real question is where did Zetsu come from? Too little is known about him to produce anything solid beyond speculation. Did he create Tobi or did Madara create Zetsu? And if so, both of them? Or just the white? I've read a number of theories and they're all interesting but nothing is concrete. What we do know is that Zetsu has two personalities, can become one with the earth and trees, can create clones, can 'record' what he sees for Tobi to 'view', and can drain peoples chakra. We also know Madara stole Hashirama's DNA but how was it used? What came first? The giant flower? Zetsu? Tobi? Again, all we can really do is speculate.
I don't know if you guys watch the anime at the same time, but they just showed the chapter where Madara Uchiha has a conversation with Naruto/Kakashi/Yamato. They left out the part where Kakashi asks, "So you admit you're Uchiha Madara then?"

And we have seen Tobi use some advanced Sharingan techniques when he put Konnan in a Genjutsu that she'll die when she completes.

There is the point that people made that Madara claims to have obtained EMS from taking his brother's eyes but not seemingly having the ability to use EMS.

Here's my theory, take it for what it's worth:
Tobi is not Uchiha Madara. He is Izuna Uchiha. The reason he can't use EMS is because he doesn't have Madara Uchiha's eyes. The reason he has stock of collected Sharingan is because that's how he was able to get his vision/Sharingan capabilities back.

He knows of EMS because he gave his eyes to Madara. This is also why, when Itachi suggested that Madara took Izuna's eyes by force, Tobi argued that Izuna gave them willingly. He was confirming the story from his own accord. The coffin Kabuto pulled has Uchiha Madara's body and that's why Izuna immediately agreed to work with Kabuto. Not only would he not want his real identity revealed, but he would never want to fight even a zombie version of his own brother.

Izuna loved and believed in Madara so much, that it only makes sense for him to avenge his brother's death/carry his lineage. This is also why he doesn't show his face. If he really were Madara, he wouldn't hide his face, he would take pride in showing how he survived all these years. Hiding his face would only make sense tactically and to support his secrecy.

Space/time: Kakashi has someone else's Sharingan. Because of this, it's always activated and his MS allows the manipulation of space/time. I believe, because Tobi has someone else's Sharingan, that is why it is fully activated all the time and he's using the same Space/Time MS Kakashi uses, but he uses it on himself and he's fully developed it.

Either way, this is just my theory. No facts except what we've seen in the manga combined with deduction.
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Old 2011-03-10, 16:55   Link #404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fran~ View Post
I've thinked several things about that...

the last thing i thought was that Madara isn't Madara but an Uchiha... it could be Shisui, Sasuke's dad, etc... and the coffin is THE real Madara. But that would leave zillions of plotholes.

I also thought in your post as a possibility too.

There is also the chance that the coffin could be some hax ninja, why not rikuudo senin?.

It has to be something that Madara would really fear.
Madara could fear Madara and Rikudou-Senin, that's for sure. Rikudou-senin could cross all his plans. Everything he wants to achieve is the power of the Sage of the Six Paths which means he's inferior to him and of course he has control over the Jyuubi.
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Old 2011-03-10, 22:42   Link #405
Cael
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That's not a bad theory.
Quote:
Space/time: Kakashi has someone else's Sharingan. Because of this, it's always activated and his MS allows the manipulation of space/time. I believe, because Tobi has someone else's Sharingan, that is why it is fully activated all the time and he's using the same Space/Time MS Kakashi uses, but he uses it on himself and he's fully developed it.
Let me see if I understand this... Izuna gives his eyes to his brother, but doesn't get Madara's? Why not? If Madara took his old eyes out, you would think it would be a trade. Let's say eventually he(Izuna) obtains a new pair of Sharingan eyes and they're always active. But because he didn't steal his brothers eyes, he can't activate his EMS. But he doesn't have MS eyes anymore. So is he still using his old MS space/time techniques, just through regular sharingan eyes that are always active? If so, why wouldn't he be able to activate the MS in the new eyes, like Kakashi did? I mean he has more knowledge and experience with the sharingan than Kakashi does. Ok, so Tobi being Izuna would explain why maybe we never see MS eyes, yet see MS techniques. Is that about right?

If Tobi is Izuna, why did he want Pain's Soul technique? I think after hearing Tobi call himself Madara time and again, that if he was not Madara in some way shape or form, it would be a confusing disappointment. Anyway, it's not a bad theory. But I still think Tobi has more to do with Madara than his brother. At least that's what the hype has been.
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Old 2011-03-11, 17:58   Link #406
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@Essenar
Indeed, not a bad theory at all…except, I think the author has gone out his way to let us know in spite of what mechanism is in place here (astral projection, another uchihas eye/body, white zetsu clone[probably the case]), that the master mind behind the moons eye plan is Madara. I say this because in the fight against Konan, we are explicitly told, paraphrased: yes, i am madara, i fought shodai, the fight was for the future, by the way, i took his cells.

Now some notes concerning your post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Essenar View Post
The reason he has stock of collected Sharingan is because that's how he was able to get his vision/Sharingan capabilities back.
i thought the stock of eyes was for the Izanagi jutsu (used to replace his left eye whenever he needed to) but since the rinnegan has now been place there, im not so sure…

Quote:
Originally Posted by Essenar View Post
The coffin Kabuto pulled has Uchiha Madara's body and that's why Izuna immediately agreed to work with Kabuto.
im gonna go out on a limb and speculate that the body in the coffin could actually be Izuna. they were on par with each other apparently. besides, the use of the word MADMAN in reference to Kabuto is kinda peculiar to me. I would only used that word if you were using someone I cared about against me. Im sure it matters not what word I would use, but i just got the feeling from Tobi that he was saying "how dare you dig up my brother!" [shot in the dark here]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Essenar View Post
If he really were Madara, he wouldn't hide his face,
agreed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Essenar View Post
I believe, because Tobi has someone else's Sharingan, that is why it is fully activated all the time
if the body tobi is using is some sort of clone from zetsu, i guess that could explain why his sharingan seemingly always activated…if its the body of an uchiha, it probably isnt always activated…we just havent been SHOWN this…

Quote:
Originally Posted by Essenar View Post
he's using the same Space/Time MS Kakashi uses, but he uses it on himself and he's fully developed it.
being able to perform the jutsu on himself lends itself to the idea of Tobi being an actual Uchiha or zetsu doing a really good job of copying the chakra of a deceased uchiha…

as far as the space time jutsu being the same as kakashi, maybe these two sharingan are from uchiha kin...

summary: it could be izuna, but im leaning against it...
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Old 2011-03-12, 11:45   Link #407
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This is probably basic/concluded but he refers to himself in third person in the latest episode, do people usually use their names when refering to 'I'?
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Old 2011-03-12, 14:28   Link #408
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This is probably basic/concluded but he refers to himself in third person in the latest episode, do people usually use their names when refering to 'I'?
Only when they feel they are above everyone else...kind of like Sesshomaru. Judging by Madara's story, is it really so hard to believe he does think of himself above all others?

How Madara refers to himself is presently hard to discuss. If he turns out to be something/someone else, then the reference will mean something. If not, then it is as I described. Until then discussing this particular issue doesn't really prove anything one way or another.
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Old 2011-03-13, 01:19   Link #409
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Only when they feel they are above everyone else...kind of like Sesshomaru. Judging by Madara's story, is it really so hard to believe he does think of himself above all others?

How Madara refers to himself is presently hard to discuss. If he turns out to be something/someone else, then the reference will mean something. If not, then it is as I described. Until then discussing this particular issue doesn't really prove anything one way or another.
Or, and I know I'm fishing this idea a lot, but what if he means "those techniques won't work on the eyes of Madara".

Either way, we can agree it's very strange he hides his face, needs other Sharingan and seemingly can not use Mangekyo techniques. Lastly, as strong as Itachi was, I highly doubt the real Madara would fear him enough to wait until he dies to attack Konoha.
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Old 2011-03-13, 11:32   Link #410
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I think it's Madara using Obito's body with the same technique that Orochimaru wanted to use to live forever.
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Old 2011-03-13, 17:28   Link #411
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Originally Posted by AkisTensai View Post
I think it's Madara using Obito's body with the same technique that Orochimaru wanted to use to live forever.
the dimensional transfer is the same (or at least looks the same) as Kakashi. obitos body would allow him to use the technique on himself safely...
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Last edited by Artimus_Prime; 2011-03-14 at 11:13.
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Old 2011-03-19, 12:55   Link #412
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I think that he has a third eye on his forehand...
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Old 2011-03-21, 04:43   Link #413
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think that he has a third eye on his forehand...
I hope he don't have, its will become some sort of vincent type in YuYu Hakusho .
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Old 2011-03-25, 16:25   Link #414
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Only when they feel they are above everyone else...kind of like Sesshomaru.
LOL I never knew thats why he always did that; makes sense.
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Old 2011-04-11, 23:28   Link #415
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I'm still with the whole Tobi is "Obito's body; Madara's soul" theory. Why? Cause that would create major drama/angst for Kakashi, and I believe the scene of Obito's death *right before Shippuden* is a foreshadow of that. If not, I just have to wonder why on earth the author would save that flash back for right before Shippuden. Plus, it's almost too much of a drama-llama filled idea to pass up. Or at least I wouldn't pass it up.
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Old 2011-04-13, 03:04   Link #416
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I just have to wonder why on earth the author would save that flash back for right before Shippuden
Well I guest for the benefit of kakashi history, when and how did he get his sharingan. And also for the background of naruto's father to whom he really is .
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Old 2011-04-13, 13:49   Link #417
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I'm still with the whole Tobi is "Obito's body; Madara's soul" theory.
at the very least, it could be obitos sharingan
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Old 2011-04-13, 23:02   Link #418
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at the very least, it could be obitos sharingan
True, but if take the sharingan, why not take the whole body with you? I mean, so far nobody has come up with the secret of immortality and only came up with the whole body hopping system, so why just take the sharingan when you can take the whole thing?

As far as the whole arc of obito's death thing and Kakashi's past goes, they still could've showed it anytime in the first part of the series...but instead Kishimoto specifically waits until the beginning of Shippuden. Could be just coincidence/unintentional circumstance, but it smells too fishy to me.
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Old 2011-04-14, 09:40   Link #419
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at the very least, it could be obitos sharingan
The one side of his face was crushed by a boulder....Kakashi took his other eye. how is it his Sharingan if it was crushed? Repair-crushed-eye no Jutsu?
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Old 2011-04-14, 20:18   Link #420
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The one side of his face was crushed by a boulder....Kakashi took his other eye. how is it his Sharingan if it was crushed? Repair-crushed-eye no Jutsu?
You never know what could happen in Naruto !


Joking !



But yeah.....
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