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Old 2011-03-05, 17:39   Link #81
Kameruka
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^I dunno what you try to tell me but I think its a counter-feminism is at work. Yes shoujo mangas and shows are good places to start. No wonder why some shounen and seinen mangas and shows like Claymore for example are many times more feminist than any shoujo mangas out there. I'm not surprised that there are many women who actually loved it despite not marketed towards them. There is also a rumor that shoujo mangakas deliberately didn't want to put too many feminist issues in it, some Japanese politicians will going to 'censor' it in order to prevent the rise of feminism in their country. Yes Japanese politicians are no better than their counterparts anywhere else.
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Old 2011-03-05, 22:25   Link #82
Guernsey
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It is ironic indeed but that doesn't mean ti is completely free from misogyny especially when it comes to characters like Orihime from bleach. Orihime is a good character but she often chided by fans for being useless in combat despite the fact that she is a pacifist.
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Old 2011-03-28, 11:03   Link #83
Chiibi
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Quote:
Orihime is a good character but she often chided by fans for being useless in combat despite the fact that she is a pacifist.
I don't like her not for that fact but because she's "Miss Fanservice". I might like her better if her breasts weren't so obnoxious or if she was smarter or....etc.

Which brings me to another "cliche" though I don't know if you can call it that.

I hate when loose-fitting shirts are drawn to outline breast cleavage.



SHIRTS DON'T DO THAT!!! Even if you have HUGE bazongas like Himari, the fabric does not magically go inside of your cleavage! It stretches out across them!

I guess it bothers me because I'm an artist and it's used STRICTLY for fan service only. Though I'm sure the fanboys have no complaints.

THIS is a better perception on how a T-shirt forms around breasts.
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Last edited by Chiibi; 2011-03-29 at 00:35.
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Old 2011-03-30, 18:11   Link #84
Pakg
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What is it?

At least 2 of the main characters either live alone or might as well because of a few reasons:
1. Parents are dead and some how left their high school aged child with enough money to live on.
2. Their parents or siblings are engulfed in work/school so much that either they're NEVER home or ALWAYS away for business.

Worst Offenders?

Basically any type of Harem or romantic type anymore it seems...there's always that one person that lives alone.
Quick example that just popped into my head: Here
Kaede Sakura (Kampfer)


What makes it popular?

....I guess a lot of people wished when they were younger that living alone or damn near alone without having to pay anything or next to nothing is awesome? Also, you need to have a place to get it on I guess

Reasons I hate it?

I went all through High School and a year through College living with my family and with ALL the friends that I had minus the ones that were in student housing in college. There were NONE that went to the lengths that manga/anime does with, "Oh my parents are really important business people so you might see them once throughout the whole series and you'll be scared shit-less of them."

Last edited by Pakg; 2011-03-30 at 18:18. Reason: Thought of an example
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Old 2011-03-30, 21:40   Link #85
Dalek Sec
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What is it? Afraid to say "I Love You"

The characters (and sometimes characters) who KNOW they love the other and just can't say it. I actually enjoy harem anime and shoujo but sometimes this cliche goes too far


Worst Offenders?

Probably Maburaho or Ichigo 100%. Aya takes FOREVER to tell him anything and

Spoiler for Ichigo 100%:


Notable Exceptions?

Shuffle!
Spoiler for Shuffle!:



What makes it popular?

The build up I think. I actually enjoy the dramatics of it but often times it just goes too far and takes too long.

Reasons I hate it?

Again...takes too long and gets painful
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Old 2011-03-30, 21:56   Link #86
thevil1
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I find that many animes will start off with the first lines being something along the lines of:
「この町は嫌いです」 - "I hate this city"

I don't hate, but I can't say I like it when they start that way, especially since I can fully understand that sentence without thinking... Yes I have low expectations for myself .
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Old 2011-03-31, 11:35   Link #87
raile
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What is it?

Unneccassary reactions when eating (sweets).

Worst offenders?

There is a LOT. Not even my favorite anime Macross Frontier is safe from this.

What makes it popular?

I'm putting my money on the cute factor. As this trope usually falls on female characters. Their facial expressions/reactions = Kyaaa!! = $$$$$

Reason for the hate?

I'm a girl who loves delicious food...especially when it's sweets. I don't know, I just find the whole 'cupping-cheeks-and closing-eyes-while-going-mmmmmmnnnn!!!' frankly stupid. Hell, not even children do that. Not even the girliest of girl friends I have do that.

Is the hate worth it?

Well, it's just a personal peeve of mine. So it could just be me.
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Old 2011-04-03, 22:00   Link #88
achirist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darklord_bg View Post
What is it? Girls beating up guys.

Worst Offenders: Almost every show out there...it will be easier to just list the exceptions below. If I have to say the freshest example in my mind, it is the Index/Railgun franchise...

Notable Exceptions: Kaze no Stigma - somehow the male lead is able to dodge everything the girl throws at him. Maybe because Kazuma is so AWESOME. There are probably other examples, but right now I can't think of any...

What makes it popular: I keep asking myself that. For girls, maybe they like seeing it because it feels more empowering. Funny thing is...it's popular among guys as well. Maybe they feel envious about the guy in question being a "chick magnet" and like to see him getting beat up.

Reasons I hate it: Well...it's unrealistic and it's demeaning to men. It makes them look weak and disposable.

Is the hate really worth it? Probably not, since it's mostly used as a comedic gag but I can't help it. If you can tell me how not to be bothered by it...please let me know.
I completely agree with you, not to mention, it's ILLEGAL! I think it sends the wrong message that these anime girls are constantly shown engaging in very exaggerated physical violence against their peers with no consequences. It would be nice to have an anime where a girl does something like that, and ends up being arrested and tried.

I think one of the worst offenders was definitely Clannad, where Sunohara was repeatedly beaten half to death by several of the female characters. It isn't funny, it's extremely emotionally immature, selfish and idiotic on the girls part, and I refuse to watch any more school anime that uses this as if it was humorous.
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Old 2011-04-05, 10:31   Link #89
LadyKikyo91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guernsey View Post
It is ironic indeed but that doesn't mean ti is completely free from misogyny especially when it comes to characters like Orihime from bleach. Orihime is a good character but she often chided by fans for being useless in combat despite the fact that she is a pacifist.
Yeah you do have a point but most of that is Kubo's fault for the way he portrayed Orihime during the Hueco Mundo arc. But yeah it annoys me when people automatically say Orihime is useless because she is a girl and all she can do is heal and protect. If she was useless just about all of the main characters would be dead right about now. I am can name plenty of characters that are far more useless than Orihime. I am a feminist as well and I generally hate females who don't have any combat abilities but I like Orihime for some odd reason. I know Orihime can be annoying at times but the rabid hate of her is unnecessary and ridiculous.

The only real stereotype I hate is a Tsunadere who beats up on the main character or females beating on males basically.

Notable examples: Kagome Higurashi, Nami, and most other shounen heroines. Even Rukia Kuchiki does it.

Reason: Its a double standard. It is basically telling girls they have a right to hit on a guy when guys are told that they are wrong for hitting on girls. Its stupid and immature to hit someone when you can't get your way or when you are mad at him. For some odd reason in Japan it seems to almost be viewed as a sign of femininity especially in the shounen genre. I think its cowardly to hit someone who can't hit you back and definitely not funny
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Old 2011-04-05, 11:47   Link #90
Lord of Fire
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What is it?

A couple getting interrupted (either by a phone call or people coming in the room) while they're in the midst of a date, about to kiss, or even close to having sex.

Worst offenders

Nogizaka Haruka no Himitsu (and its second season, Purezza)

Notable exceptions

Can't think of any right now.

What makes it popular

It's mostly comedic effect, and pretty much always used in a romantic comedy. People apparently find it amusing when a couple gets interrupted by a terribly timed phone call or when one or more side-characters walk in on them (either by accident on semi-purposely).

Reason why I hate it

Nothing kills a mood faster than being interrupted and I think it's quite inconsiderate for any guy (or girl, but usually guys) to leave their cell phone on during their time alone. Same goes for when others can't respect two lovers' desire for some privacy.

Is the hate really worth it?

I believe it is. I doubt there are many people who like being interrupted at the most inconvenient time one way or another, whatever the situation might be. And I personally find it extremely rude for someone to barge in when two people are either about to have sex, or just spending some quality time together.
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Old 2011-04-05, 15:48   Link #91
Triple_R
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Totally agree with Lord of Fire on that, but I will add that it is not only an anime cliche, but an
entertainment-in-general cliche.

I've seen it plenty of times outside of anime (i.e. in Hollywood movies, in live-action sitcoms, in comic books, etc...)


Still, wherever I see it (including anime), it now annoys me. I think it's done mainly to stretch out a romance really. To tease the shippers, and troll-ishly say "Ha ha! You're going to have to keep tuning in to our show if you want to see these two kiss and/or make out like that!"
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Old 2011-04-05, 17:32   Link #92
Chiibi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord of Fire View Post
What is it?

A couple getting interrupted (either by a phone call or people coming in the room) while they're in the midst of a date, about to kiss, or even close to having sex.

Worst offenders

Nogizaka Haruka no Himitsu (and its second season, Purezza)

Notable exceptions

Can't think of any right now.

What makes it popular

It's mostly comedic effect, and pretty much always used in a romantic comedy. People apparently find it amusing when a couple gets interrupted by a terribly timed phone call or when one or more side-characters walk in on them (either by accident on semi-purposely).

Reason why I hate it

Nothing kills a mood faster than being interrupted and I think it's quite inconsiderate for any guy (or girl, but usually guys) to leave their cell phone on during their time alone. Same goes for when others can't respect two lovers' desire for some privacy.

Is the hate really worth it?

I believe it is. I doubt there are many people who like being interrupted at the most inconvenient time one way or another, whatever the situation might be. And I personally find it extremely rude for someone to barge in when two people are either about to have sex, or just spending some quality time together.
Heh heh...yes, cock-blocking suuuuuuuuuuuucks!
It's always so predictable too-as soon as they slow down the animation when the characters lean in to kiss, you KNOW it's going to get interrupted!!
Even Disney does this!! ALL THE TIME.
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Old 2011-04-05, 18:42   Link #93
mecharobot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
You're going to have to keep tuning in to our show if you want to see these two kiss and/or make out like that!"
Except that you're not going to get that anyway, ever. And even if you do, the relationship is going to reset. It's all hoax and the main reason why I started to avoid those kind of shows, unless there is something else worthwhile going on. Well, I guess that's what you meant anyways.
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Old 2011-04-05, 19:23   Link #94
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mecharobot View Post
Except that you're not going to get that anyway, ever. And even if you do, the relationship is going to reset. It's all hoax and the main reason why I started to avoid those kind of shows, unless there is something else worthwhile going on. Well, I guess that's what you meant anyways.
That's a good extension off of what I meant. Well said.

You're right that in some cases you're not going to get it anyway.


While I do hate this cliche, I think I'd love to see it subverted.

Have a scene where two lovers are about to make out, and the phone rings, and they both basically say "screw it" by ignoring the phone and continuing on with the make out.

You show this in a movie, and I can already hear the audience erupting in cheers over this old annoying cliche being subverted like that.
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Old 2011-04-05, 19:28   Link #95
Chiibi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mecharobot View Post
Except that you're not going to get that anyway, ever. And even if you do, the relationship is going to reset.
Huh, what do you mean by that? That's not always true.
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Old 2011-04-06, 05:06   Link #96
mecharobot
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Huh, what do you mean by that? That's not always true.
No cliche is always true. But from what I've seen on anime shows that insist on using this trick, no lovey dovey stuff gets the chance to happen. And by reset I mean shows that seem to make progress, but in the next episode it reverts back to how it was. Let's take something like the second season ending of Zero no Tsukaima:

Spoiler for Zero no Tsukaima 2nd season:


It's an extension to the "couple getting interrupted" cliche. I call it harem reboot.
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Old 2011-04-06, 10:26   Link #97
ahelo
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Women being inferior and admitting it themselves (Bakuman, Reborn)
Don't get me started with harems.

Though I do think its more of a society issue but some series do go out of line with sexism.
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Old 2011-04-06, 11:58   Link #98
Chiibi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mecharobot View Post
No cliche is always true. But from what I've seen on anime shows that insist on using this trick, no lovey dovey stuff gets the chance to happen. And by reset I mean shows that seem to make progress, but in the next episode it reverts back to how it was.
Lol watch more shoujo. XD That pretty much NEVER happens. If they make progress, they just keep going!
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Old 2011-04-06, 15:24   Link #99
mecharobot
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Originally Posted by Chiibi View Post
Lol watch more shoujo. XD That pretty much NEVER happens. If they make progress, they just keep going!
I probably should watch more shoujo, but that's a gross overstatement. It's certainly not common in the around 30 shoujo shows I've seen so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ahelo View Post
Women being inferior and admitting it themselves (Bakuman, Reborn)
One other thing are the super powered women/little girls that are all too common in anime:

What is it? Overpowered females.

Worst offenders: All around. Usually in battle shounen like FMAB's Mei. Also Black Lagoon is notorious for this.

Notable exceptions: In terms of balance? Very rare. Especially if the show is battle oriented. There are a rare few outside action shows like Izumi Noa.

What makes it popular: I guess some think that they're being "equal" by creating strong women...

Reason why I hate it: ...but you don't create good characters by simply giving them hax powers. It makes up for cardboard characters that I consider equally bad to harem archetypes.

Is the hate really worth it?: Yes. Most annoying thing about this is that people actually praise these kind of characters as strong and independent simply because of their artificial combat prowess. This creates a demand for more action girls instead of actual female characters with charisma, intelligence and emotions of their own.

Last edited by mecharobot; 2011-04-06 at 19:44.
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Old 2011-04-07, 00:18   Link #100
ahelo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haak View Post
what is it?: girls calling the male lead perverted even when he's done nothing to warrant it.
oh god fractale. That blonde girl just spouts "pervert pervert" and i doubt anyone finds it funny.
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