AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > Games

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2011-04-05, 02:50   Link #1241
Keroko
Adeptus Animus
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 26
On blood magic, the risks of blood magic are far greater than just a different form of magic. It requires negotiation with spirits and demons, the later of which will constantly be trying to trick and manipulate you. It is less like a sword, and more like a caged wolf. Sure, if you sick it on your enemies it can tear their throats out, but for even the most expert of trainers there's always a chance that the wolf turns upon its master. Hell, even the extremist Anders is vehemently against the use of blood magic.

And it is there that the Templars have a good point. Equality is a nice dream, but mages can easily resort to blood magic if the buttons are pushed. Even those who claim never to have practiced blood magic have shown a tendency to resort to it rather easily when cornered.
__________________
Keroko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-05, 05:51   Link #1242
Irkalla
I asked for this
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Winterfell
Age: 25
Spoiler for spoiler 1:


Spoiler for spoiler 2:


Spoiler for spoiler 3:
__________________
Irkalla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-05, 06:50   Link #1243
synaesthetic
blinded by blood
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Oakland, CA
Age: 30
Send a message via AIM to synaesthetic Send a message via Skype™ to synaesthetic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
On blood magic, the risks of blood magic are far greater than just a different form of magic. It requires negotiation with spirits and demons, the later of which will constantly be trying to trick and manipulate you. It is less like a sword, and more like a caged wolf. Sure, if you sick it on your enemies it can tear their throats out, but for even the most expert of trainers there's always a chance that the wolf turns upon its master. Hell, even the extremist Anders is vehemently against the use of blood magic.

And it is there that the Templars have a good point. Equality is a nice dream, but mages can easily resort to blood magic if the buttons are pushed. Even those who claim never to have practiced blood magic have shown a tendency to resort to it rather easily when cornered.
This is true in DA2, but DA2 breaks Dragon Age canon making blood magic "easy." Blood magic is not easy. DA2 had a major Wallbanger where it seemed anyone could use blood magic simply by cutting their wrist and letting themselves bleed.

Remember that in Origins, to learn blood magic you had to actually go into the Fade (not a simple task at all) and learn it directly from a demon! Granted, I can see it being more prevalent in a former Tevinter territory, but still. It just seemed way too easy in DA2.

It may also be a case of Gameplay and Story Segregation (and if it is, it really shouldn't be), but blood magic doesn't always seem to equal demons. Simply using it as an alternative power source doesn't seem to involve the possibility of corruption. Since blood magic is also the most commonly used type of magic among demons, I can see blood mages as being more susceptible to demonic possession while dreaming or lucid in the Fade, because it means the demons may have an easier "back door."

Origins makes this pretty clear--blood magic allows demon summoning, but it doesn't always mean demon summoning. DA2 kind of goes nuts with this and makes you think any use of blood magic means you're popping shades and rage demons out left and right...
__________________
synaesthetic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-05, 12:26   Link #1244
kujoe
from head to heel
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 32
The thing is, it does not simply provide an alternative power source. One of its defining features is its ability to control the desires of people, which is a demon-like trait. The irony is that it ends up controlling the user... from demonic possession to using blood magic as a quick, desperate solution.

The Warden mage may simply learn it during the course of the main story in the Fade, but we are not privy to the events that led other non-playable characters to blood magic. It's safe to say that they too found blood magic in a similar way.

The stigma surrounding blood magic is well-earned, mainly because of its specific uses—from consorting to demons to allowing the kinds of things that guys like Quentis does. There are a few good reasons to use blood magic, but it's also not surprising that a mage would easily succumb to the temptation of such a school of magic that consumes and controls the lives of others in more ways than one.

As it is, blood magic is categorized as forbidden knowledge, and since every mage has access to the Fade, every one of them is capable of learning it. Not everyone however, is fit to use it properly.
kujoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-05, 12:55   Link #1245
Kyero Fox
Tastes Cloudy
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Snake Way
Age: 25
Send a message via AIM to Kyero Fox
Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
This is true in DA2, but DA2 breaks Dragon Age canon making blood magic "easy." Blood magic is not easy. DA2 had a major Wallbanger where it seemed anyone could use blood magic simply by cutting their wrist and letting themselves bleed.

Remember that in Origins, to learn blood magic you had to actually go into the Fade (not a simple task at all) and learn it directly from a demon! Granted, I can see it being more prevalent in a former Tevinter territory, but still. It just seemed way too easy in DA2.

It may also be a case of Gameplay and Story Segregation (and if it is, it really shouldn't be), but blood magic doesn't always seem to equal demons. Simply using it as an alternative power source doesn't seem to involve the possibility of corruption. Since blood magic is also the most commonly used type of magic among demons, I can see blood mages as being more susceptible to demonic possession while dreaming or lucid in the Fade, because it means the demons may have an easier "back door."

Origins makes this pretty clear--blood magic allows demon summoning, but it doesn't always mean demon summoning. DA2 kind of goes nuts with this and makes you think any use of blood magic means you're popping shades and rage demons out left and right...
http://awkwardzombie.com/index.php?page=0&comic=012411
__________________
Kyero Fox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-05, 13:46   Link #1246
Keroko
Adeptus Animus
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyero Fox View Post
Loved that particular plot hole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
This is true in DA2, but DA2 breaks Dragon Age canon making blood magic "easy." Blood magic is not easy. DA2 had a major Wallbanger where it seemed anyone could use blood magic simply by cutting their wrist and letting themselves bleed.
Blood magic is very easy to learn. Remember the mage origin in Origins? Even some random twat could learn it just because it looked interesting. Under the watchful eye of the circle no less.

The problem is not the ease of learning, since all you need is access to the fade which any mage can do, it's controlling the magic that is the challenge.

I've often made the analogy to Warhammer (since, let's face it, the Fade is rather obviously inspired by the warp) and it serves again here: To be a blood mage is to fight constant temptation and whispering. The demons you claim to master will always seek ways to manipulate and use you. Learning blood magic is taking a step on the road to damnation which is very hard to get off. Merill is a prime example, she thought she had everything under control but she was the demon's puppet from the very get-go.
__________________
Keroko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-05, 14:05   Link #1247
synaesthetic
blinded by blood
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Oakland, CA
Age: 30
Send a message via AIM to synaesthetic Send a message via Skype™ to synaesthetic
I still reject the notion that a methodology can be "evil," something religious organizations have long since used to vilify things they don't like. Blood magic isn't "evil," but it's dangerous because it makes you a much more enticing target for demons. It's also a sin under the Chantry as it allows you to dominate the will of another being--but really, is mental domination worse than killing? It's pretty much on the same level to me, if you mind-control some mook into getting killed by his buddies, or you turn him into a pile of ashes with a lightning bolt.

The end result is the same--he's dead.

It's all in how you use it. True, Merrill was led down the garden path from moment one--and she's knowledgeable enough to have realized this had she not been under the demon's sway. Logic isn't Merrill's strong suit, but anyone with half a functional brain cell would have realized the futility of rebuilding an eluvian. What's it going to connect to? All the other eluvian have been destroyed, except the one Morrigan mucked about with--which now serves a very different purpose. So the network is down. What good's a giant magical video chat device with no other devices to connect to?

Anyway, I digress. But you see, Meredith shows how the "ZOMG EVUL BLUD MAGIK" can be taken way too far. She used the commonly-accepted "evil" of blood magic to damn all mages, even those who didn't do a damn thing wrong. If not for the primeval lyrium idol\the sword Souldrinker or whatever it was those ancient dwarves crafted, I doubt Meredith would have ever gone that far, though.
__________________
synaesthetic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-05, 14:06   Link #1248
Flying Dagger
大巧不工
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Magic exists to serve man, and never to rule over him.
Foul and corrupt are they
Who have taken His gift
And turned it against His children.
They shall be named Maleficar, accursed ones.
They shall find no rest in this world
Or beyond.
-Transfigurations 1:2

In no parts did any forbidden arts or blood magic are mentioned in this. It only warned against those who used magic against "his children". What if, lets say, blood magic is also a gift from the maker? Demons, who grant people knowledge of blood magic, are meant to serve man?

Are demons the only keepers of blood magic? iirc demons are spirits empowered by the human defects: rage, sloth, desire, etc. There are also helpful spirits, such as justice. Do the helpful spirits also possess the knowledge? Where are the rest of the helpful spirits?

The DA setting power seem to come from "all things negative". Blood magic are associated with demons and grey wardens are empowered by blood of the darkspawn. Where are the more positive power sources? Ashes of some dead woman?

Another thing: who are the maker's children? Could it possibly be the darkspawn? (As darkspawn are believe to have been brought forth into the world after the tervintar mages entered the golden city). Grey Wardens, through the ritual of joining, indirectly invoke something similar to blood magic (or at least blood research seem to be able to hold back the corruption and strengthen its powers). Grey Wardens certainly "find no rest in this world" given their nightmares when an archdemon is waken.
Flying Dagger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-05, 14:10   Link #1249
synaesthetic
blinded by blood
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Oakland, CA
Age: 30
Send a message via AIM to synaesthetic Send a message via Skype™ to synaesthetic
No, the book says that you shouldn't "rule over man" with magic, meaning the only thing it really expressly forbids is mental domination. In Thedas, only blood mages can do such a thing. So it does seem to indirectly point toward blood magic as a no-no.

But the Chantry hasn't exactly been very saintly, either, engaging in bloody massacres and massive wars against pretty much anything they don't like. Fighting Tevinter may have been a good thing, but they've done some Exalted Marches for reasons that are less "good" and more "expanding the power of the Chantry."

Just like a real church!
__________________
synaesthetic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-05, 14:49   Link #1250
Keroko
Adeptus Animus
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
I still reject the notion that a methodology can be "evil,"
Make no mistake, I am not saying blood magic is inherently evil. What I am saying is that it's dangerous. And that's a vast difference. Blood magic opens one to the notion of performing 'evil' deeds much more than any other form of magic, due to the nature of involving demons. As per your example, you can fry someone with a bolt of lightning or mind controlling them dead is the same. But that lightning magic isn't going to whisper in your ear that you should fire that bolt on people. The demons will.

Much is I disagree with the Chantry and it's methods, when it comes to blood magic they have a good point. It's a tool that's as likely to wield the wielder as it is to be wielded.

And again, even Anders -who hates the Chantry and the templars with a bloody passion so far unsurpassed in the game- realizes the dangers of blood magic, and discourages its use time and time again.
__________________
Keroko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-05, 15:39   Link #1251
synaesthetic
blinded by blood
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Oakland, CA
Age: 30
Send a message via AIM to synaesthetic Send a message via Skype™ to synaesthetic
Demons can get to any mage, though. It's just (apparently) easier for demons to get to blood mages, since many blood magic specific spells involve actually invoking spirits.

Regarding Anders, I think his hate-on for blood magic is more of a deflection of his own misdeeds--he allowed himself to become possessed by a spirit, and while it originally wasn't a malicious spirit, his own anger and hatred warped Justice into a demon, Vengeance.
__________________
synaesthetic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-05, 15:46   Link #1252
kujoe
from head to heel
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Make no mistake, I am not saying blood magic is inherently evil. What I am saying is that it's dangerous. And that's a vast difference. Blood magic opens one to the notion of performing 'evil' deeds much more than any other form of magic, due to the nature of involving demons. As per your example, you can fry someone with a bolt of lightning or mind controlling them dead is the same. But that lightning magic isn't going to whisper in your ear that you should fire that bolt on people. The demons will.

Much is I disagree with the Chantry and it's methods, when it comes to blood magic they have a good point. It's a tool that's as likely to wield the wielder as it is to be wielded.

And again, even Anders -who hates the Chantry and the templars with a bloody passion so far unsurpassed in the game- realizes the dangers of blood magic, and discourages its use time and time again.
^This.

Blood magic isn't evil in itself, rather; it is forbidden and something not to be easily used or trifled with. From what we've seen so far, only a very select few are able to handle such a responsibility. Avernus... Morrigan and Flemeth maybe? Heck, Jowan did some good at Redcliffe.

DA2 on the other hand, has shown in general that it's no simple matter... or perhaps, maybe it's that simple. The hubris of the mage who thinks it can be tamed will be the downfall of one and many.

The Chantry verse isn't talking about blood magic, but all magic. It's a response to the political power of the magisters in Tevinter, hence why in other parts of the world mages are watched over and regulated by the Templars and the Chantry.

In Tevinter, the verse is interpreted in a more figurative fashion by the Imperial Chantry—basically, that mages shouldn't be 'ruled over' by their power, giving them a privileged position of responsibilty. (At least, that's what I can remember from that conversation with Fenris.) There are more tolerant views of mages in Tevinter in general, which is why they also occupy high positions in their society. Of course, we all know how that goes. People will be people in the end.

There is actually more than one Chantry, and each has their own interpretation of the place of magic in mankind. Both views haven't resulted in a positive way.
kujoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-05, 21:27   Link #1253
swtrooper42
Melancholic Swim Captain
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pennyslvania
Age: 24
Haven't seen this posted yet. So Hawke song time!
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/vide...gon-Age-2-Song
__________________

Close Curtains, Thwart Snipers
Sameo, Paladin of Legend
swtrooper42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-05, 21:56   Link #1254
kujoe
from head to heel
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by swtrooper42
Haven't seen this posted yet. So Hawke song time!


Sorry, Hawke.

Commander Shepard > Dragon Age 2 Song
kujoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-06, 04:56   Link #1255
MrTerrorist
Takao Tsundere Cruiser
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Classified
In related news.

Buy Dragon Age II, Get Mass Effect 2 Free
__________________
MrTerrorist is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-06, 15:13   Link #1256
Flying Dagger
大巧不工
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
I would say the ME2 is worth more than DA2 =/
Flying Dagger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-06, 16:37   Link #1257
synaesthetic
blinded by blood
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Oakland, CA
Age: 30
Send a message via AIM to synaesthetic Send a message via Skype™ to synaesthetic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Dagger View Post
I would say the ME2 is worth more than DA2 =/
I tend to agree with this.
__________________
synaesthetic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-06, 18:00   Link #1258
BetoJR
D-d-don't look!!!
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
Age: 36
Well, it's also older, and most people who'd benefit from this already have the game (like me). I did download it, though. A digital copy is always nice to have...
__________________
It's always a great time to immerse yourself in Deculture love!
All hail the Empress!!!

BetoJR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-06, 18:37   Link #1259
HyenaMan
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Dagger View Post
I would say the ME2 is worth more than DA2 =/
indeed. DA1,ME1,ME2 > DA2. Waiting for The Witcher 2. The first one was one of the best RPG ever made. The dialogs were the best ever in a RPG imho, even though it's not from Bioware
HyenaMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-04-07, 17:32   Link #1260
Kyero Fox
Tastes Cloudy
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Snake Way
Age: 25
Send a message via AIM to Kyero Fox
would anyone like a FEmale qunari companion? (Thats male hawke romance only)

I certainly would, nice tone body.. horns.. prob a tiger in bed mmm...

oh and why only male hawke? uh ... *cough*Sebastian*cough* *cough*probspelledhisnamewrong*cough*
__________________
Kyero Fox is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bioware, ps3, rpg, windows, xbox360

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 13:39.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.