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Old 2011-04-12, 04:59   Link #381
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
It is this very "relative" quality that puts me in disagreement with the original assertion regarding them being at the absolute forefront of quality amongst the anime studios today.

Perhaps I'm stretching it by saying so, given my lack of knowledge regarding what it takes to animate and draw scenes in anime, but can we really say that it is as hard to animate most of the shows KyoAni has done as it is to animate say any number of heavy fighting shows, shows involving lots of quick movement sequences?
Well, as long as you have the staff, and more importantly, -cash-, I guess it shouldn't be hard, should it?

I guess understanding the full extent of producing anime in general require a direct report from an insider, although I believe there were production costs thrown here and there in the past.
It is however extremely difficult to gauge your average budget, considering how the rendition of an anime series can be between extremely mediocre and "OVA-like".

That being said, I believe it is a fair point to consider their "craft" as not the norm, considering how few studios are actually doing the same kind of efforts (or relatively speaking, dishing out the "same kind of budget"). To put it bluntly, there isn't much competitors even if you factor simple designed things like LS/K-on/Nichijou.
If we consider your usual "runmill" studios like JC Staff/DEEN/ZEXS/Xebec/etc, we are probably going to end on a common conclusion.

Things is that, "quality" becomes more and more a relative apprieciation of the fans, and while some people would cry genius over animation galore (even of different genre, like either ambiant detail for K-on/Nishjou, or upfront action animation, like TTGL/Star Driver), some would rather want a scenary "porn" (Ef series despite having an abysmal animation, or currently, Hanasaku Iroha).
That brings even more problems regarding what to "consider" really as good production in general, if you were to be on the "opposite" side (I just say it in general, I'm in no position to call what you are expecting to be good production value).

Quote:
I'm aware one of Kyoani's often noted strengths is their ability to pick up the frame rates and provide fluidity in motion... But could they really do the same for series of the nature I just talked about?
That's actually the core issue since the answer itself doesn't exist. But considering their feat with FMP TSR and Clannad, I wouldn't be surprised if they could maintain that kind of quality for other type of shows. The problem lies with their staff but more importantly, the producers.

Quote:
That is one reason I find it hard to compare say a Code Geass to a Haruhi or Clannad. They're just different. I do think KyoAni is damn near the best there is for TV shows of a particular kind of genre, but to say that they are in general is going beyond what I find I am able to agree with.
Indeed, it is pretty much saying that Granny Smith is the queen of the apples, but then claiming it for fruits in general. It is basically not an objective statement, and I agree that it will certainly clash with what people can expect for another genre.
That being said, I think we can give proper credits for a studio when it comes to consistency and "middle ground" quality that should be applied to any genre (like design consistency, colors, camera pan etc), and how often they can pull it off (for example, as much as PA Works definitely delivered eye candy stuff like Canaan and Hanasaku Iroha, they went almost close to Xebec level with Angel Beats).
Quote:
While I disliked the art style of haruhi 2009, I can't say too much about its actual fluidity and details. However, regardless of style, I didn't get the impression that it was as sharp or nicely done as Haruhi 2006.
I wholeheartedly agree. It is just damn obvious if you were to compare even the first 2009 episode to one of the Endless Eight episode. That being said, I'm afraid it will remain a mystery in term of decision, considering it is more of a Kadokawa issue than a studio issue.
Quote:
To me it's like watching some of the great actors in Hollywood. Some of them are great "character" actors that are able to portray one type of role really well, and make a living off of it. Morgan Freeman is an example of this. But then there are people like Robert Di Niro, who I feel is a truly spectacular actor capable of branching off in almost every genre imaginable.

Similarly, many VA's in the industry have different ranges, and abilities. I hear many criticize Aya Hirano for not being able to sound too different in all her roles, while praising other VA's for being able to do what she cannot.

I suppose at this point, I want to know if KyoAni is a one trick pony or not. It's their decision, but if they show no visible effort to be any different, then I can't really sit here and accept it. It would just be a clear lack of creative desire on their part, which is something often sorely lacking in the entertainment industry.
I definitely can see where you are coming from and share same concern here and there (especially in VA side, as I would definitely rant ad infinitum for the likes of Kugimiya, Noto, etc).

However, as much as I agree they should try to expose themselves to new horizons, I think haruhi issue is relevant to their problem: KyoAni is, contrary to what many people believe, a small studio. They aren't anything close to big shots like Sunrise, Madhouse or Bones, which is even more noticeable if you check their history.
Therefore, we are pretty much seeing the producer side being overly dominant: Endless Eight fiasco was pretty much the clear indication of that (despite it did require budget to reiterate each episode with clear different scenes, although the content was basically a copy paste X7).
It is even more obvious when they are starting to rack Movies projects, which you wouldn't even expect them to do so prior 2008, as they are bound to make popular sequel.

I dunno, it is perhaps I rather see the industry itself as stagnant that I'm not really bothered by KyoAni stance.
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Old 2011-04-12, 05:04   Link #382
Ascaloth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I'm aware one of Kyoani's often noted strengths is their ability to pick up the frame rates and provide fluidity in motion... But could they really do the same for series of the nature I just talked about?

That is one reason I find it hard to compare say a Code Geass to a Haruhi or Clannad. They're just different. I do think KyoAni is damn near the best there is for TV shows of a particular kind of genre, but to say that they are in general is going beyond what I find I am able to agree with.
...as a matter of fact, they can. The final fight scene of FMP: TSR is still one of the better mecha fights I've seen, and that one was quite a while ago.

And for a more up-to-date example, although nobody wants to acknowledge its existence, it has to be said that the Munto reboot, if nothing else, does show that KyoAni still has what it takes to deliver the breathtaking action scenes, especially if you're talking about the more recently-animated second half.

Really, the only thing with KyoAni is whether they want to.

Last edited by Ascaloth; 2011-04-12 at 05:16. Reason: Not movie, reboot, blah
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Old 2011-04-12, 05:28   Link #383
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Well, as long as you have the staff, and more importantly, -cash-, I guess it shouldn't be hard, should it?
Well sure, talent and money tends to solve most problems .

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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Things is that, "quality" becomes more and more a relative apprieciation of the fans, and while some people would cry genius over animation galore (even of different genre, like either ambiant detail for K-on/Nishjou, or upfront action animation, like TTGL/Star Driver), some would rather want a scenary "porn" (Ef series despite having an abysmal animation, or currently, Hanasaku Iroha).
That brings even more problems regarding what to "consider" really as good production in general, if you were to be on the "opposite" side (I just say it in general, I'm in no position to call what you are expecting to be good production value).
Well there's certainly enough variables out there to make this all but an objective debate. However, if focused on the issues of fluidity, detail, and consistency in art, then it becomes far less subjective IMO.

I personally really like the style of ~ef, but I did notice as you said, the animation quality was not too great and why I can't say Shaft is as quality of studio in this department as KyoAni.

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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
I dunno, it is perhaps I rather see the industry itself as stagnant that I'm not really bothered by KyoAni stance.
I guess for the very same reason you aren't too bothered is the reason why I am . I see KyoAni in a unique position right now, as an upcoming studio really,that may one day carry a torch for this industry, I want them to do well, but also make changes for the better. I'm dissatisfied with the industry's stagnation, so I wish they don't promote it.

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Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
...as a matter of fact, they can. The final fight scene of FMP: TSR is still one of the better mecha fights I've seen, and that one was quite a while ago.

And for a more up-to-date example, although nobody wants to acknowledge its existence, it has to be said that the Munto movie, if nothing else, does show that KyoAni still has what it takes to deliver the breathtaking action scenes, especially if you're talking about the more recently-animated second half.

Really, the only thing with KyoAni is whether they want to.
Well the Munto movie is well... A movie no? That's a whole different ball park from a television series. If we are going to go there, then I might as well start throwing at you the latest Rebuild of Evangelion films, or something like the Gundam Unicorn OVA's for a base of comparison in action.

I can't exactly comment on FMP: TSR (I never made it that far in FMP). Though I must ask if every episode was action packed or not, where budget is inevitably lost? I ask this because if the show had lead up to fights in arcs or something of that nature (1 big fight every 3-6 episodes), then it isn't quite the same.

I don't doubt they possess they have the ability to perhaps provide quality in a single instance or two, or maybe even three in a series of such nature. What I do question, and I don't know and I don't presume to know the answer to, is if they possess the ability to maintain this for this kind of show, episode by episode like a Code Geass (I mention it only because it's a big one, not vouching for its quality, just using as a base of comparison).

Only then can I say that it is a fair comparison. Problem is, like I keep saying, they haven't given us a real opportunity to make such a comparison since they haven't really ventured outside their comfort zone.

--------------------------

EDIT: Another thing that I should say... If KyoAni manages to become a bigger studio that produces more shows in the future like a Sunrise/Madhouse/Bones, will they be able to maintain what they've done up till this point? I know BONES is still pretty great at delivering quality after all this time.
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Old 2011-04-12, 05:35   Link #384
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Well the Munto movie is well... A movie no? That's a whole different ball park from a television series. If we are going to go there, then I might as well start throwing at you the latest Rebuild of Evangelion films, or something like the Gundam Unicorn OVA's for a base of comparison in action.
My bad, when I said movie, I actually meant the TV series-format reboot. And yes, the animation for the TV-original episodes were as good, if not better than the original OVA material. My slip there.

Quote:
I can't exactly comment on FMP: TSR (I never made it that far in FMP). Though I must ask if every episode was action packed or not, where budget is inevitably lost? I ask this because if the show had lead up to fights in arcs or something of that nature (1 big fight every 3-6 episodes), then it isn't quite the same.

I don't doubt they possess they have the ability to perhaps provide quality in a single instance or two, or maybe even three in a series of such nature. What I do question, and I don't know and I don't presume to know the answer to, is if they possess the ability to maintain this for this kind of show, episode by episode like a Code Geass (I mention it only because it's a big one, not vouching for its quality, just using as a base of comparison).
Not every episode was action packed, that was true, but regardless of whether it was or not, it had good and consistent quality throughout. Really, you should pick it up to see KyoAni's rendering of none other than Hong Kong.

Quote:
Only then can I say that it is a fair comparison. Problem is, like I keep saying, they haven't given us a real opportunity to make such a comparison since they haven't really ventured outside their comfort zone.
And I'm saying they did, in at least two instances. Don't believe me, pick the aforementioned titles up and see for yourself.

Quote:
EDIT: Another thing that I should say... If KyoAni manages to become a bigger studio that produces more shows in the future like a Sunrise/Madhouse/Bones, will they be able to maintain what they've done up till this point? I know BONES is still pretty great at delivering quality after all this time.
Well, that's forecasting an unknown future, isn't it?
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Old 2011-04-12, 05:44   Link #385
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Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
My bad, when I said movie, I actually meant the TV series-format reboot. And yes, the animation for the TV-original episodes were as good, if not better than the original OVA material. My slip there.
No problems . Unfortunately I'll never know because I couldn't bear to look at the screen for this story (Sorry the story was just ugh.... I couldn't go beyond emo boy in the water scene, and I think you may know what I am talking about ).

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Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
Not every episode was action packed, that was true, but regardless of whether it was or not, it had good and consistent quality throughout. Really, you should pick it up to see KyoAni's rendering of none other than Hong Kong.

And I'm saying they did, in at least two instances. Don't believe me, pick the aforementioned titles up and see for yourself.
Well it's been in the back of my head to finish this series for the hell of it. Perhaps I'll check into it since you go so far to make such claims.

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Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
Well, that's forecasting an unknown future, isn't it?
Hah, well I'm just throwing the idea out there. It could be that we may be spoiled right now due to KyoAni being a small studio with in house animators that produce very few series. In the future this may not be the case.
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Old 2011-04-12, 06:05   Link #386
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I guess for the very same reason you aren't too bothered is the reason why I am . I see KyoAni in a unique position right now, as an upcoming studio really,that may one day carry a torch for this industry, I want them to do well, but also make changes for the better. I'm dissatisfied with the industry's stagnation, so I wish they don't promote it.
Ah my mistake, I was actually not meaning this way, and I realize only now that this comment is nearly the opposite of what I was thinking.
What I meant is that I don't mind KyoAni stance because they are actually trying "new franchises", even though they are essentially similar due to the themes, whereas the industry is stuck with recurrent fanservice stuff etc.
I personally don't like Nichijou's humour that much (only 1 scene per episode really cracked me up, that's it), but I have to admit that it is fairly different from what we usually have. Likewise, even if it was a simple "moe blob slice of high school life", K-on wasn't following the usual trend of the industry (although, marketing and goods are a totally different story).
Of course, I would really call creativity/upside-down path for KyoAni should they decide to make a full action series, or something entierely different (Thriller, etc).

Quote:
I can't exactly comment on FMP: TSR (I never made it that far in FMP). Though I must ask if every episode was action packed or not, where budget is inevitably lost? I ask this because if the show had lead up to fights in arcs or something of that nature (1 big fight every 3-6 episodes), then it isn't quite the same.
As ascaloth already stated, nope, FMP TSR isn't fully action oriented, but still has a lionshare of it.
But the rendition of the fights are definitely on the high standards. The so famous lambdadriver scene is one among many... in fact, if you remember that weird "energy shield colliding" scene in the Cave Cricket episode of Haruhi 2006, you will realize quickly where it comes from

I would definitely recommend this series though (along with Fumoffu): even in this "day and age", FMP franchise is quite fresh. You will understand why so many people are begging blood and tears for a sequel.
Damn, that makes me want to watch TSR again
Quote:
EDIT: Another thing that I should say... If KyoAni manages to become a bigger studio that produces more shows in the future like a Sunrise/Madhouse/Bones, will they be able to maintain what they've done up till this point? I know BONES is still pretty great at delivering quality after all this time.
From what we could have seen, they are still in the middle of some sort of "transition" for the lack of better words. They are of course not close to what the aforementioned studios are, but it is safe to say that KyoAni are expending their productions rate without a notable budget cut, but more on the style.
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Old 2011-04-12, 07:39   Link #387
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
As ascaloth already stated, nope, FMP TSR isn't fully action oriented, but still has a lionshare of it.
But the rendition of the fights are definitely on the high standards. The so famous lambdadriver scene is one among many... in fact, if you remember that weird "energy shield colliding" scene in the Cave Cricket episode of Haruhi 2006, you will realize quickly where it comes from

I would definitely recommend this series though (along with Fumoffu): even in this "day and age", FMP franchise is quite fresh. You will understand why so many people are begging blood and tears for a sequel.
Damn, that makes me want to watch TSR again
I, for one, have been waiting years to see what the

Spoiler for unanimated FMP material:


doing its stuff would look like, with the KyoAni Lambda Driver effect.
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Old 2011-04-12, 08:11   Link #388
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Why, of course. This is even "worse" as I've just rewatched the first 4 episodes, and really, it is hard to compute the fact it is from 2005 (you would rather expect this series vintage to be around 2008-2010 instead).

And yeah, key moments of the LN would be a gigantic blast if they keep the same direction with a up to date budget/animation techniques.
Geez, this discussion reminded me why I keep this series in my top 5
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Old 2011-04-12, 08:28   Link #389
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Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
What?! Seriously? OK, 4-5 years ago, maybe, but their recent stuff for TV are horrible compared to Sunrise, BONES, PA works, and probably more studios.

As for variety... that would be suicidal... aside from Key/Haruhi fanboys, the only thing they can sell (without overextending themselves financially) are moe-blob shows.
I only meant technical quality. Bones is another one that often up there, but only with their A work like FMA. Sunrise is similiar, Gundam Unicorn is amazing, but what about Gundam Seed, or even Gundam 00 where all the reused scenes are incredibly obvious.

If you look at Nichijou, it's not quite up to what they did with Haruhi 2006, but every scene is animated fluidly. If you look at episode 1, the explosion scene at the beginning was great, every object is being tossed around in a twisting manner, there's an attention to detail there. For what it is, I can't see it being animated any better.

The other thing here is that Kyoto Animation is consistently high quality, the only other studio which can match this is PA Works (notwithstanding some parts of Angel Beats). Bones might produce stuff like FMA, but they also produce stuff along the lines of Star Driver.

That's not to say I'm a Kyoto Animation Fanboy. I found lucky star dull, hated Kanon, was apathetic about Clannad (though I loved After Story...), and didn't even watch K-On.
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Old 2011-04-12, 08:42   Link #390
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I still consider FMP!:TSR to be one of the pinnacles of anime, and Kyoto's best anime series. FMP!:Fumoffu! is still epically funny in this day and age, I still can't help but sniggle every time I think of the Football episode (or the entire last episode).

PONY.

If KyoAni ever gets around to animating another season of FMP!, I swear the Heavens will part with a radiant descending, singing choir of Angels as I sink to my knees weeping like an over-emotional weenie.

Code Geass was an entertaining show which I enjoyed it very much for the camp, and there were very well animated fights, but the series as a whole also had its "QUALITY" moments, and recycled frames. Something which is very lacking from KyoAni.

Not to mention the level of gore... if I have to use a comparison, it's akin to GitS. Throat slit in TSR anyone?

Military action aside, TSR was also about a coming of age for the Protagonist, Sousuke. You really feel his character growing. There were also some comedic elements, but TSR was mostly on the serious side.

That said... if anybody intends to dive into the FMP-series and do not wish to read the Light Novels that they are based on, they will need to watch the original series made by GONZO (with assistance from KyoAni). Otherwise a lot of plot elements will be lost on them in TSR.

GONZO being GONZO... well, it's not entirely bad, it's still good, but... ...

Cheers.
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Old 2011-04-12, 13:42   Link #391
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Ah my mistake, I was actually not meaning this way, and I realize only now that this comment is nearly the opposite of what I was thinking.
What I meant is that I don't mind KyoAni stance because they are actually trying "new franchises", even though they are essentially similar due to the themes, whereas the industry is stuck with recurrent fanservice stuff etc.
Well certainly they are often much better than most generic studios out there. I would hope so considering their popularity .

I suppose I wouldn't really be here if it weren't for Haruhi specifically. The way they managed to provide such a refreshing and invigorating story to me, I'd like to see the same in other areas.

I mean since they boast a good record at adapting KEY VN's, why not try adapting a VN of another type? For example, I know you reviewed Sharin no Kuni Himawari no Shoujo and liked it, could they manage to adapt a story as difficult as that one? It seems to contain elements that they'd be good at expressing, but at the same time poses a unique challenge (It has many darker elements, and the main lead is often not the nicest guy).

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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
As ascaloth already stated, nope, FMP TSR isn't fully action oriented, but still has a lionshare of it.
But the rendition of the fights are definitely on the high standards. The so famous lambdadriver scene is one among many... in fact, if you remember that weird "energy shield colliding" scene in the Cave Cricket episode of Haruhi 2006, you will realize quickly where it comes from
Heh. Well I guess I have no choice but to check it out. I only ever saw the first season that was made by Gonzo mainly, where I was left pretty uninspired in a lot of episodes, so I never went past that. I guess I'll go see if KyoAni can provide a better adaption .
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Old 2011-04-12, 14:32   Link #392
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Heh, so in the end, I guess many of the complaints could boil down to "Where the hell is my FMP?" Pity it didn't sell that great; I wonder if it will sell more now, since their studio name is more notable now.
Sadly FMP: TSR already bombed by Kyoani standards in 2005 while being one of their best animated series. It sold less then a quarter of their early Key adaptions. I fear it would only do worse these days. For it to be a modern mecha it lacks the bishounen or harem cast to sell to otaku and as a late night anime it can't be targeted at the shonen demographic.

It's a bit ironic as I think FMP:TSR quite compares favourable to top selling late night mecha like Code Geass, and Macross Frontier, or shonen shows like Gundam Seed, 00 and Star Driver.

Maybe a new FMP:Fomufo would have more succes if Goutou still has some of those stories lying around. That show's razorsharp comedy timing remains unsurpassed.

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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
It is my error that I quoted the whole post without reading it carefully enough, but what I do agree with is that KyoAni has dropped off in quality these past years on TV shows, and that they lack variety in the first place to make such a claim.
I see this statement a lot but I'm not so sure if there has been more than a temporary problem. If one looks at the examples people mention of Kyoani's drop in quality, they are all in the period late 2008 to autumn 2009.
I think they over-extended themselves in that period as they had like 8 projects going in that period (from anidb). While before and after they never did more then 2 things a year. Compare this to say P.A.Works who have done 2 projects a year for the last 4 years: one original animation and one subcontracting job.

After the late 2008-2009 period quality increased again. The Haruhi movie, while not a TV-anime, had almost as much effective run time as a single cour season is amongst their best work yet. K-on!! may look deceptively simple but in terms of directing and atmosphere it had far more to offer then it's prequel.

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It recently occurred to me that for all the accusations of being a complete otaku-fest, K-On! probably has the widest market potential market of any show Kyoto has ever produced. This is probably the strongest piece of evidence I've seen thus far to support that, pushing aside the fact that the show got timeslots from Animax Asia often reserved for more mainstream fare and various anecdotal evidence of the show being popular with people you wouldn't expect. And it makes me wonder if the lightening up on the otaku anime tropes in season II wasn't just the director having more creative leeway as I theorized at one point.
It will be interesting to see how far K-on can go, and if it will lead to more shows by Kyoto that are partially aimed at a non-otaku audience.
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Old 2011-04-12, 14:54   Link #393
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I mean since they boast a good record at adapting KEY VN's, why not try adapting a VN of another type? For example, I know you reviewed Sharin no Kuni Himawari no Shoujo and liked it, could they manage to adapt a story as difficult as that one? It seems to contain elements that they'd be good at expressing, but at the same time poses a unique challenge (It has many darker elements, and the main lead is often not the nicest guy).
Quote:
Heh. Well I guess I have no choice but to check it out. I only ever saw the first season that was made by Gonzo mainly, where I was left pretty uninspired in a lot of episodes, so I never went past that. I guess I'll go see if KyoAni can provide a better adaption .
Oh believe me, they certainly are capable of that. Again, I do not want to overhype them, but if you check out TSR, you will realize that "darker" themes are indeed within their possibilities, to the point it arguably puts Gonzo's adaptation to shame in some aspects. The mood of TSR is by far a complete overhaul which is noticeable big time over the first 4 episodes, but the last episodes are basically a complete deconstruction of the supposed "happy go lucky" seemly setup: war is present, and they aren't on a school activity field trip.
This season alone is a proof they really have competent staff to deliver dead serious stuff (or hilarious explosive humor, as shown in Fumoffu), so I would be entirely positive should they pick something like Sharin no Kuni.

That being said, explained by Skane already, Gonzo's season is watchable, and you have to go through this stepstone to fully understand and enjoy TSR (and Fumoffu inbetween).
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Old 2011-04-12, 15:33   Link #394
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I mean since they boast a good record at adapting KEY VN's, why not try adapting a VN of another type? For example, I know you reviewed Sharin no Kuni Himawari no Shoujo and liked it, could they manage to adapt a story as difficult as that one? It seems to contain elements that they'd be good at expressing, but at the same time poses a unique challenge (It has many darker elements, and the main lead is often not the nicest guy).
A few months back there was a "troll" Spring 2011 shows chart that circulated - the entire thing being, as far as I can tell, an attempt to see how far a reader could read before realizing that no season could possibly ever have such a critical mass of awesome shows all at once. The first show on the list was a adaptation of SnKHnS by Kyoto.

That said, I'm a bit doubtful of that game ever being adapted into anime because anime adaptations of VNs are often used to promote console ports, and Sharin no Kuni's Xbox 360 version came and went with no anime being announced.
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Old 2011-04-12, 16:35   Link #395
Reckoner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
A few months back there was a "troll" Spring 2011 shows chart that circulated - the entire thing being, as far as I can tell, an attempt to see how far a reader could read before realizing that no season could possibly ever have such a critical mass of awesome shows all at once. The first show on the list was a adaptation of SnKHnS by Kyoto.

That said, I'm a bit doubtful of that game ever being adapted into anime because anime adaptations of VNs are often used to promote console ports, and Sharin no Kuni's Xbox 360 version came and went with no anime being announced.
Ah, yes. I was majorly trolled by that list . My desire to see an anime adaption for Sharin and also the more recent, G Senjou no Maou, is immense.

I find it very confusing that neither has gotten an adaption. If what you say is true though, it's a shame that an anime adaption may never be made for sharin no kuni himawari no shoujo. I feel like it's a good enough story to carry a lot of success though...

Last edited by Reckoner; 2011-04-12 at 16:51.
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Old 2011-04-12, 16:41   Link #396
thirdlc
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Originally Posted by acejem View Post
No, of course not. Clannad and Haruhi definately took more effort and production time compared to Lucky Star, K-on or Nichijou.
I suppose you judged it by their arts. If so, I have to say that's not true. What takes effort and production time the most is animation. Putting aside the Haruhi movie (it's a MOVIE), there is not much difference among their animation qualities.

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Originally Posted by blooglah24 View Post
Clearly this is a show meant only for otaku's.
The director said K-ON was not only for otaku. It's two years ago, so I don't remember the details.

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Originally Posted by TJR View Post
Most studios simply accept what's offered to them. They have no money, are hungry for work, and just do the job that's requested (yes, that often includes things like censorship and anime original arcs). The hope is that if they do a good job within specifications, they'll get hired again later. This model also allows them to remain relevant in terms of industry trends -> since the clients decide what they animate, there's much less chance of producing something contrary to current tastes.
That's not true. Studios big enough capable of producing one show are always suggesting projects to publishers. They are hungry for work. Yes. There are no reasons for them to wait for someone to offer a project to them. Of course, they accept what's offered to them too.

Quote:
On the other hand, the more creative or business savvy studios regularly suggest projects. They also involve themselves in planning and risk more of their money in exchange for a piece of the pie (the show becomes their project and not just something built to client specifications). KyoAni is certainly one of these, although the decision making process seems to be heavily dominated by the owners. I don't think they even have any animation staff/creators in management (unlike Satelight, I.G., or BONES), which shows.
And this one is wrong too. KyoAni is not the type of a company which suggests projects. Now matter how you look at KyoAni, they only accept Kadokawa and TBS's requests.

TBS is the one who wanted to make Key's anime and got animation rights from Key and asked KyoAni to make adaptations. The shows I don't know where came from very much are Fumoffu and K-ON! But it'd be safe to say they're not KyoAni's projects.

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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Well, as long as you have the staff, and more importantly, -cash-, I guess it shouldn't be hard, should it?
That's right. Actually, it is HARDER. It's the most difficult thing and takes money and time the most in animation. That's why most studios cut corners on it. KyoAni's greatness is that they easily animate casual movements as if it were nothing. KyoAni CEO says that that's their strength and that he doesn't prevent his animators from animating what they want to animate regardless of how much budget is. When KyoAni tries to take advantage of their strength, their anime genre is getting narrower and narrower, and comes down to slice of life.

Quote:
KyoAni is, contrary to what many people believe, a small studio. They aren't anything close to big shots like Sunrise, Madhouse or Bones, which is even more noticeable if you check their history.
Hi, I'm one of that 'many people'. I see what you mean by that, but I don't believe KyoAni is a big studio. They have about eighty or ninety (or perhaps neary a hundred of) animators as permanent employees. Sunrise, Madhouse and Bones don't have that many animators. In this sense, KyoAni is a big studio.
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Are you going to say "budget"? Wait! Is your point really related to budget? Isn't it time or style?
Simply put, production time is consistency, and budget is framerate.
Even poor animation is costlier than a high-quality still shot.
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Old 2011-04-12, 17:27   Link #397
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Originally Posted by thirdlc View Post
I see what you mean by that, but I don't believe KyoAni is a big studio. They have about eighty or ninety (or perhaps neary a hundred of) animators as permanent employees. Sunrise, Madhouse and Bones don't have that many animators. In this sense, KyoAni is a big studio.
Not sure where you get your numbers,here's where I get mine and sunrise has more employees than KyoAni,Madhouse has a little less,bones isn't listed but considering they've got 4 locations so that 4 teams can work in parallel I'd expect that number to be pretty darn big too.
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Old 2011-04-12, 18:53   Link #398
recover
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I disagree on the comment regarding how successful FMP would be in this day and age...

Most anime viewers have seen one of the seasons, and it has received (and continues to receive) favorable comments.

It has almost become a staple in any anime viewers repertoire.
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Old 2011-04-13, 20:28   Link #399
germanturkey
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yeah, my friend and i just had a conversation about watching that new show by KyoAni this season, then laughing at how far they've fallen since they've done TSR. TSR is by far one of the best shows ever made in the last decade. it depresses me to think it came out so long ago and that the studio hasn't been able to reproduce a show anywhere near its quality since. PA Works is the future and the only hope we can get something TSR like in the near future.
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Old 2011-04-13, 20:36   Link #400
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Originally Posted by germanturkey View Post
yeah, my friend and i just had a conversation about watching that new show by KyoAni this season, then laughing at how far they've fallen since they've done TSR. TSR is by far one of the best shows ever made in the last decade. it depresses me to think it came out so long ago and that the studio hasn't been able to reproduce a show anywhere near its quality since. PA Works is the future and the only hope we can get something TSR like in the near future.
As much as I like P.A. Works, they have yet to still prove themselves in terms of diversity. They are a even newer studio than KyoAni (with only 4 works in their belt + the currently airing Hanasaku Iroha)with 2 of them being are slice of life dramas (True Tears, Hanasaku) and one of them being a hybrid (Angel Beats).

Assuming Hanasaku Iroha is successful, which if it keeps up its quality will very much be so, then personally I would like P.A to produce something completely outside the slice of life genre. An epic sci-fi or fantasy/adventure series perhaps, and preferably an anime original, which all but one of their series has been so far. Then, it is possible to call them the future.

Atm, it looks like SHAFT is currently the golden egg though in the diversity/creativity department.
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